Personal opinion: Shadowlands will be a bad expansion.

[FelPlague]

The cinematic pretty much showed me he is a death knight now when he uses remorseless winter on Sylvanas. https://youtu.be/s4gBChg6AII?t=136

That was a trinket he has, on use summons a storm of ice.
he aint a death knight.
he aint died
he aint got the power from frostmourne.
without the helmet, he cant control frost, and he cant control undead.
hes just a warrior, wearing some DK themed enchanted gear.

[Shakana]

That was a trinket he has, on use summons a storm of ice.
he aint a death knight.
he aint died
he aint got the power from frostmourne.
without the helmet, he cant control frost, and he cant control undead.
hes just a warrior, wearing some DK themed enchanted gear.

Regardless of him whatever he is, it's for the fun, not to be taken serious! It's a meme, as if he was using the old frost dk having a two hand and it makes your weapons useless. As if that was the reason to lose against her. Some humour please

[Mozu]

and yet MoP is now widely regarded as one of the best expansions.

This claim of yours is unsubstantiated. You just keep repeating it as some biblical truth because you want to believe it. It's pretty funny.

Ah, so here is the problem. You are "using your own subjective opinions as "facts"" to say MoP's predictions about it being a bad expansion were correct, instead of going with the majority's consensus. You're putting your own opinion above practically everyone else's.

Some threads you've read in the past on MMO-Champ that agree with your own opinion does not equal majority consensus, bud. Sorry.

[Ielenia]

This claim of yours is unsubstantiated. You just keep repeating it as some biblical truth because you want to believe it. It's pretty funny.

Yeah. "Unsubstantiated". Right. It's not like a quick search in this forum would turn up any sort of evidence to back my claim...
• Like this one.
• And this one.
• Or this one.
• Also this one.
• And this too.

But, hey. "Unsubstantiated". Riiiiight.

Some threads you've read in the past on MMO-Champ that agree with your own opinion does not equal majority consensus, bud. Sorry.

Hilarious.

[Mozu]

Yeah. "Unsubstantiated". Right. It's not like a quick search in this forum would turn up any sort of evidence to back my claim...
• Like this one.
• And this one.
• Or this one.
• Also this one.
• And this too.

But, hey. "Unsubstantiated". Riiiiight.


Hilarious.

"A few threads on MMO-Champ is not proof of any majority consensus."

Proceeds to link a few threads on MMO-Champ as further proof.

Classic.

[Ielenia]

"A few threads on MMO-Champ is not proof of any majority consensus."

Proceeds to link a few threads on MMO-Champ as further proof.

Classic.

It's more than just a few threads. I just linked some. What you're doing here is dismissing evidence just because it doesn't agree with you. I've claimed that the prediction MoP would be a good expansion was wrong, and to back it up, I've shown you evidence that MoP is widely regarded as a good expansion. Basically every time there is a "rate the expansions" poll on this website, MoP comes out in the top half.

Yet all you're doing is plugging your ears, closing your eyes, and yelling "LALALALA".

If you were a defense attorney and this were a court hearing, you'd be saying "it doesn't matter if the defendant had gunpowder traces in his hand, a weapon of the same caliber as the one that killed the victim, and the victim's blood in his shirt".

[Mozu]

It's more than just a few threads. I just linked some. What you're doing here is dismissing evidence just because it doesn't agree with you. I've claimed that the prediction MoP would be a good expansion was wrong, and to back it up, I've shown you evidence that MoP is widely regarded as a good expansion. Basically every time there is a "rate the expansions" poll on this website, MoP comes out in the top half.

Yet all you're doing is plugging your ears, closing your eyes, and yelling "LALALALA".

If you were a defense attorney and this were a court hearing, you'd be saying "it doesn't matter if the defendant had gunpowder traces in his hand, a weapon of the same caliber as the one that killed the victim, and the victim's blood in his shirt".

No, even thousands of posts do not compare to the millions of people playing the game.

You are a victim of not understanding scale.

You're basically taking the one guy that saw a UFO in a group of millions of people at the same location and saying "UFOs EXIST, THIS ONE GUY IS PROOF!" even though no one else saw anything.

[Raisei]

Oh dear, a thread that proclaims the badness of the coming expansion, despite barely knowing anything about the gameplay systems and story. I nearly died from shock!

But fine, I humor you.

Don't misunderstand me: It will be definitively be better than gutter trash of BfA, but i think that Shadowlands might probably be a bad expansion; around the same as Cata. Because really, i feel a sense of cata-vibes right now:

Always these comparisons. BFA was WoD 2.0, now Shadowlands is Cata 2.0? At least make things more original. And calling BFA "gutter trash" is just hyperbole. Sure it had it`s problems as every expansion did, but it was still enjoyable for most players.

1.) No connected Zones. That's one of the really bad things that is a repeat of Cata, and to a part also part of BfA: Instead of having one connected land mass, we have 5 different "isles", disconnecting us from them. So we have a main hub like in cata with portals to the different zones. It disconnect people with the land mass and the zones. Even worse: in cata at least they were connected with the continent, here we don't even have this. So for me the zone design is actually worse than Cata.

It does make sense though, since each of the areas are sort of their own dimensions, they are not just countries that border onto each other. For us the only difference this makes is that we can`t fly on mounts from one to the other. There will very likely be ways to get around besides that tho.

2.) Absolutely no features. So what we get are new bloated factions, something like lazy order halls, just as they did it with tier sets (that are not returning); instead of doing it for all classes, they rather broke it down to 4 factions. And the rest: The maw and the tower of the damned are both diablo-esque greater rifts, nothing more, nothing less as far as it is known right now. But since the zone-design describe the maw as quite a dead zone, i'm not really looking forward for this being the endgame-zone compared to suramar for example.

So this is one of the things many of these threads get wrong: Just because you do not like the features that are coming does not mean they are non-existant.

For the context of the Shadowland meta story a story based on your class makes very little sense, besides just repeating what Legion did would be kinda boring, not to mention that then suddenly people would start to complain about the different class stories and order halls as they did in Legion.

Also M+ is the feature that was inspired by Greater Rifts, they have the keystones, the timer, the tiers of difficulty. The Tower has little to do with it, besides I actually think I will like it.

3.) No new classes - One of the most stupid things i hear on this forums are: blizzard needs to balance old classes rather than adding new ones: Sorry, but that is utterly, utterly bullshit. If blizzard for example wouldn't revamp classes on every occassion, making working classes where most people are happy (shadow priest pre-voidform) replace with total crap and then prune the hell out of them just because 2-3 players complained that there are too many buttons, and try to trim classes towards PvP and e-sports, then we wouldn't have this issues. Sorry, but thinking that nowadays adding a new class and balancing existing ones are not possible is totally idiotic. It's lazyness (and saving money) that makes blizzard not releasing new classes, not that they haven't the ability to balance 13 instead of 12 classes. And most of all: balance towards PvE, but do not try to make every class-spec performe the same in PvP. WoW was, is and will always be mostly a PvE-Game, only in times where blizzard focused mostly on it, especially not balancing towards e-sport-gamers and towards the upper 0.1% of the playerbase, WoW was the most successful.

I don`t find that argument stupid. But it is not the core of the matter. It is not JUST about balancing, it is about improving the existing classes and make them more fun to play. The game already has more classes then any other MMO out there, but what is the point of adding another if the others are a mess. Do you think everyone wants to play the new class so the others do not matter anymore? Hardly.

4.) Zone design: Maybe it's just me, but from the videos i've seen, Bastion is a really, really underwhelming zone. Maybe it's because it is so unfinished, maybe the bad lighting (that is hopefully by far not finished) or maybe the bad textures and models, but right now it seems like a very, very bad zone and underwhelmingly small too. We know nothing about the rest (except the maw from the videos with the jailor), so it might hopefully get better, but Bastion, the first zone we will go to will really be quite a bad zone.

So you have seen videos of ONE zone and that is enough to condemn the whole point of Zone Design.... sheeesh..., and yes, yes you can assume that it is not finished since it is almost a YEAR till the release...

This is just the problem. And it is always the problem with these threads that always pop up whenever a new expansion is announced, you judge an unfinished product and you judge it without any decent information about it, so you just repeat the stuff people are harping on for month:

"I don`t like the features, I want a new class (probably Necromancer), the expansion is going to be bad, because I am not getting what I want." This line perfectly summarizes your entire post.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but you should at least get enough information first before you form it, because with this mindset you will always hate the expansion. It's called prejudice.

[Ielenia]

No, even thousands of posts do not compare to the millions of people playing the game.

Learn about "data extrapolation".

You are a victim of not understanding scale.

And you are a victim of not understanding "data extrapolation". What you're doing is basically claiming that every single poll in the entire world is meaningless.

You're basically taking the one guy that saw a UFO in a group of millions of people at the same location and saying "UFOs EXIST, THIS ONE GUY IS PROOF!" even though no one else saw anything.

No, I'm taking several polls that were answered by many, many people. Not just "one guy".

Good bye, if you're just going to ignore reality.

[Morgaith]

Every second expansion has been good so there's literally no way that shadowlands will be bad

[Shakana]

"A few threads on MMO-Champ is not proof of any majority consensus."

Proceeds to link a few threads on MMO-Champ as further proof.

Classic.

>Still doesn't prove anything. MMO champ compared with many more people that doesn't even know MMO exists, it's not a proof. Just happens that the people that visit this forum and site happens to like that more.

[Adam Jensen]

Personal opinion: Wait for it to come out before trashing it

[Super Kami Dende]

Personal opinion: People that are judging an expansion based solely on what little was seen at BlizzCon are not worth listening to for Valid criticism.

[Casperite]

These are literally the textbook personal opinion, across the board. I am not sure at all how you think TBC was epic, but Wrath was awful. In fact, common general opinion is that Wrath is hands down the best expansion we had in terms of overall story and class balance (in most ways), not to mention content.

Most people would wholeheartedly disagree with you on Cata being "very good" and MoP being "mediocre".

In fact, I think that general concensus would be more this:

• TBC - Very Good
• WotLK - Epic
• Cata - Mediocre
• MoP - Very Good
• WoD - Mediocre/Poor
• Legion - Epic
• BfA - Poor

Granted, this is just my take, and opinions are extremely subjective. But the fact that you think Cata was very good and MoP was mediocre speaks volumes and sort of nullifies any degree of objectivity you might have in my mind.

And, it's WAY too fucking soon to know of ShL will be most likely good or bad. Since you know next to nothing about it.

The fact you think a different opinion nullifies that person's degree of objectivity sort of nullifies your own.

I disagree with both, MoP was terrible to me. There is no right or wrong objective take on what people like with expansions. People still pay to play so must be objectively good or at least okay.

[Aeula]

Let's not forget the story. Bastion is already shaping up to be an absolute clusterfuck of terrible lore, god knows what the rest will be like.

Zones separated by loading screens, no new features, lore and premise that are already terrible. But hey they're adding back a few buttons so Bartender will be mandatory to play the game, that's good surely?

[Super Kami Dende]

I hated MoP, it's one of my least favorite expansions.

I mean it's fine you hated MoP, but it is by far one of the best points of WoW.

[Mozu]

And you are a victim of not understanding "data extrapolation". What you're doing is basically claiming that every single poll in the entire world is meaningless.

No, I'm taking several polls that were answered by many, many people. Not just "one guy".

The polls you linked have about 1k votes per poll. Of which, only a couple hundred even voted for MoP as the best. So, combing all of your data and (incorrectly) assuming they are all unique votes, you get a few thousand people saying MoP was the best expansion. Out of tens of millions of people that have played wow over the years.

That's .03% of the wow population at 10 million. (Which, many more than 10 million have played in the past, I seem to remember them reaching 100 million world of warcraft accounts at some point).

I'd hardly call .03% a majority in anything, nor nearly enough data to extrapolate anything.

In fact, you could multiply these numbers by multiple orders of magnitude and you still wouldn't reach even close to a majority.

A few thousand people is no where near enough to get a confidence high enough to draw accurate conclusions based on these polls. Again, you just fail to understand the scale in which you're arguing.

Good bye, if you're just going to ignore reality.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

I mean it's fine you hated MoP, but it is by far one of the best points of WoW.

According to you.

[jzhbee]

We have more than enough to have a good initial reaction.



It's not irrelevant at all... You're using an argument that "people can't know with little information" and "it's too soon to tell" when both of the things you listed were 100% accurate based on information that was gleaned extremely early on and did not change as time went on - so "too early" was irrelevant then and is irrelevant now. Therefore, dismissing this thread because it's "too early" is silly.

Accuracy isnt quantifyable in subjective opinions. Pandaria didnt look kiddy to me, and WoD didnt look cool. To me, thats accuracy.

The info presented doesn't matter because all youre talking about is how you interpreted it.

[blankfaced]

Starting to feel like this forum is where bloggers go when the only people visiting their page are their grandparents.

I'm glad the game doesn't cater to your type. You're all never satisfied and you complain about the most minute crap (like the lighting of a zone in alpha....). Four years from now when they're on their tenth expansion, you'll be saying how Shadowlands was better than (just announced exp ten.) And your list of complaints will be just as whiny and petty.

Also: https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/bad

[Th3Scourge]

*snip*
Just my personal opinion.

1,2,4: We have little-to-no information with SL being so early in development
3: Adding classes for the sake of adding classes is utterly, utterly bullshit