The death spiral that is AV

[Sithalos]

In classic however, we are ""hopeless", we have self-imprisoned ourselves with the strict mantra that classic must be "pure". And while I too want it to be pure, I realize that it cannot be 100% pure and survive. I think that some "tweaks" need to be made by Blizzard to keep the game fun.

I grin ear to ear when the #NoChanges crowd turn around and want changes.

Nah, you people can sleep in the bed you made.

[Thunderball]

I grin ear to ear when the #NoChanges crowd turn around and want changes.

Nah, you people can sleep in the bed you made.

Why is it that hard to realize that the whole situation is created because Blizzard didnt stick to #Nochanges?

[ssviolett]

It will also mean for horde that reaching the highest pvp ranks requires 18+ hours a day of AV and is only accessible to people who bot or account share.

This is obviously wrong. It does not matter how long queues are. Longer queues means less honor for everyone - like - with no queues tryhards get 1m\week receiving br1, semi-hc guys get 500k\week receiving br2-3, now with longer queues tryhards get 400k\week, semi-hc 200k and everyone getting the same RP in both scenarios. If you have some agreement on honor caps on your server you could just play 1 AV per week and be done with it - obviously thats impossible because lower caps are - more bracket breakers emerge.

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Funny thing - at the first week of AV Alliance was roflstopming hordes with 100% win chance - every Horde member cried that AV is much more ally favorite - you can check 3-4 weeks ago posts. Now the situation is completely mirrored - ally pugs dont have a chance, even premades are struggling when hordes go to split def - 20 hordes are holding 35+ ally players on base while 20 more kill Vannar.

[Tekkommo]

Just dont play AV. Xrealm premades are the direct result of the decisions Blizzard made. While AV is the best honor and is easily rushable like that there's going to be ways people trying to maximize their honor will employ to make pugs lives miserable.

Which is why I said, find a premade discord.

They can make games pretty fun. I hate what it does to pugs though, as the premades destroy all other lobbies. That's on Blizz though for not doing anything.

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Funny thing - at the first week of AV Alliance was roflstopming hordes with 100% win chance - every Horde member cried that AV is much more ally favorite - you can check 3-4 weeks ago posts. Now the situation is completely mirrored - ally pugs dont have a chance, even premades are struggling when hordes go to split def - 20 hordes are holding 35+ ally players on base while 20 more kill Vannar.

After the first week, Horde started defending and ally started going afk.

[[Apok]]

Pretty funny when people say you needed to account share or play 16 hours a day to achieve high ranks in vanilla.

Yes you did have to consistently play due to honour decay, but taking the argumentation to such extremes is quite unneccessary.

[demonyaa]

Ironically, before av launched in classic, the consensus was that Alliance had a definite advantage over horde, that it wouldn’t be a fair fight.

So now, horde players played, reviewed what was happening that made them lose, and invented a new meta.

How about the alliance does the same?

I’m an alliance player myself, saying get good, and most of all, get organized and have an actual plan.

Any half decent alliance player plays AV with a premade. You have per server discords and cross server discords. Just my own realm AV discord at any given time has 2 or 3 premades going, the cross realm discord where I am usually has 10+ simultaneous AVs going.

All these reports pertain to solo queuers. Of course the horde can crush the solo queueing alliance when pretty much the better players queue through AV. Add in i) bots, ii) auto clickers iii) plain old alt tab AFKrs and iv) games tend to start with less and 40 due to all the many premades consolidating their players on a single AV, results in the horde having a very easy time if they are not fightning a premade.

[Tekkommo]

Pretty funny when people say you needed to account share or play 16 hours a day to achieve high ranks in vanilla.

Yes you did have to consistently play due to honour decay, but taking the argumentation to such extremes is quite unneccessary.

What do you consider a high rank?

[[Apok]]

What do you consider a high rank?

It depend's, would have had rank 14 had i focused on one character pvp'ing in vanilla, but due to playing more than one class and having to take a break after a certain point due to family things honor decay made the return after an extended absence more difficult so ended up with 12 and 10

[Tekkommo]

It depend's, would have had rank 14 had i focused on one character pvp'ing in vanilla, but due to playing more than one class and having to take a break after a certain point due to family things honor decay made the return after an extended absence more difficult so ended up with 12 and 10

How much honour are you farming per week per character?

It all depends on your server as well (I don't think you understand how it works), I find it amusing you think you'd be rank 14 by now if you focused on one character (although I think you are talking about 15 years ago with your rank 10 and 12).

The people who are currently rank 11, have been playing stupid amounts.

[[Apok]]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it?

[Tekkommo]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it?

"Pretty funny when people say you needed to account share or play 16 hours a day to achieve high ranks in vanilla"

When you say stupid things like this...

Anyone who wants rank 13 or 14, will have to play crazy amount of hours.

The current people who are rank 11ish, have already been playing at least 10 hours a day for weeks. If you think someone said you need to pvp 16 hours a day to get rank 12, then you are the one with bad reading comprehension.

[[Apok]]

"Pretty funny when people say you needed to account share or play 16 hours a day to achieve high ranks in vanilla"

When you say stupid things like this...

Anyone who wants rank 13 or 14, will have to play crazy amount of hours.

The current people who are rank 11ish, have already been playing at least 10 hours a day for weeks.

You still either failed to read what you actually quoted, or you simply didn't understand something quite simple.

[Tekkommo]

You still either failed to read what you actually quoted, or you simply didn't understand something quite simple.

If you want rank 14, you'll need at least 16 hours a day. Probably even rank 13, since servers are so much bigger.

[[Apok]]

Read what i wrote originally a few more times..

This might help you, if i was to run through a camp site looking back i would have ran ____ ______ .

[Jyggalag]

Blame alliance premades and Blizzard's continued silence on the matter, allowing them to do so with #nochanges. Nothing else.

I'm currently chasing R14 as a horde player and can confirm that queue times are ridiculous now and 18+ hours a day is the minimum needed on my server to see bracket 14 each week (i've been consistently top 10 and bracket 14 every day for past 4 resets). Our weekly cap has been 950k for the past 2 weeks.

The high end alliance premades cause us to lose games in sub 10 minutes. Most are completely unstopable without a full 40 player recall and some luck. You have 40% of the horde group wanting to defend, 40% wanting to rush as many objectives before we ultimately lose, and 20% afk/botting in every game. Rarely have i joined an AV on horde where a consensus amongst 40 participating players is aligned.

Last week, the meta evolved where we were able to pick off players 1 by 1 in an attempt to thin their herd prior to them reaching galv, turning 40 to 30-35. Blocking mid so their reinforcements couldn't reach the main group, continuing to pick players off, turning 30-35 into 25-30 by the time they reach drek. More often than not this only postponed the inevitable as wiping them would just see them re-group and try again and again until they win. We'd see a few more HKs and a lot more bonus honor as we'd have more time to cap towers and kill leutenants/commanders. Now, alliance premades have dedicated players to dismount and spam cc in mid, ensuring little to no deaths. They group at IBGY and cap it, allowing any we do manage to kill in mid to res and re-join the main group before pushing to drek.

This sees a sub 10 min game award ~2k honor for us. With 25+ min queues the norm at peak times, and competition on my server getting as much as 180k honor per day, the ONLY way to compete is to take advantage of the alliance groups not fortunate enough to join a high end premade. Take every objective, farm HKs at every opertunity in small groups, but participate in larger team fights south of balinda where alliance might otherwise win.

Horde can't have premades. It's impossible for us with the queue times. This means that, on average, a Horde AV group will consist of many high ranking and skilled players, making Horde pugs vastly superior to alliance pugs which consist of everyone not geared/ranked/skilled enough to benefit from a premade.

Horde in general are suffering. Alliance pugs are suffering. The only winners are those able to abuse this system - 40 man teams in discord, decked out in raid BiS and r10+ gear sets, fully buffed, BiS comps, consumables, and all 40 players actually at their keyboard participating. It's an absolute disgrace that Blizzard have yet to comment on the matter and have allowed this to go unchecked for so long. I see people suggest the same nobrainer solutions time and time again and it's mind blowing that nothing had been done to address the problem.

Either allow everyone to queue in groups, or none at all. Break the addons that facilitate alliance premade success rate by preventing players seeing which AV they're joining. I don't care how it's done, it just needs to be done one way or the other - queue times are getting worse as both sides are becoming more and more frustrated and less people are participating. At least 5 of my guildies who were hoping to push r10 have given up on AV completely in recent days and the pool is getting smaller and smaller. It's bad for the game.

[Tekkommo]

Read what i wrote originally a few more times..

This might help you, if i was to run through a camp site looking back i would have ran ____ ______ .

All I'm telling you is, if you want rank 13 or 14, you'll need at least 16 hours a day. Probably more since servers are so much larger and the competition is higher than it ever was.

It's that simple.

You can carry on looking like a twat all you want.

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Blame alliance premades and Blizzard's continued silence on the matter, allowing them to do so with #nochanges. Nothing else.

I'm currently chasing R14 as a horde player and can confirm that queue times are ridiculous now and 18+ hours a day is the minimum needed on my server to see bracket 14 each week (i've been consistently top 10 and bracket 14 every day for past 4 resets). Our weekly cap has been 950k for the past 2 weeks.

You're insane, good luck!

[[Apok]]

All I'm telling you is, if you want rank 13 or 14, you'll need at least 16 hours a day. Probably more since servers are so much larger and the competition is higher than it ever was.

It's that simple.

You can carry on looking like a twat all you want.!

Hey if i look "like a twat" i'm not really bothered, especially if it's because somebody can't comprehend what i wrote and then proceeds to have a seizure over it trying to "prove" something.

Bet you're from Drumchapel.

[Tekkommo]

Hey if i look "like a twat" i'm not really bothered, especially if it's because somebody can't comprehend what i wrote and then proceeds to have a seizure over it trying to "prove" something.

Bet you're from Drumchapel.

I'm having no seizure, simply replying to you.

If that means having a seizure in your book, fine. Explains a lot tbh.

[[Apok]]

I'm having no seizure, simply replying to you.

If that means having a seizure in your book, fine. Explains a lot tbh.

Still avoiding the actual point you're replying to.

[Tekkommo]

Still avoiding the actual point you're replying to.

I made it clear.