[Theory] Sylvanas is being controlled out of her own will by the Jailor

[Varodoc]

She could have died herself at Broken Shore, judging by Legion intro cinematic and Broken Shore cinematic it was a close call.

Vol'Jin's death was accidental, every other named Horde character survived.

Even with "da voices in his hed" Vol'Jin could have had decided to fight them and not suggest Sylvanas as the next Warchief.

Horde could have not accepted Sylvanas as the Warchief, her speech after Vol'Jins death was the moment they did but it was not a sure thing.

One hell of a plan there. Dutch would be proud.

Which is not actually out of character for Sylvanas, she is infamous for devising long and intricate plans that end up not only failing miserably but also backfiring completely.

[Okacz]

Which is not actually out of character for Sylvanas, she is infamous for devising long and intricate plans that end up not only failing miserably but also backfiring completely.

This one worked flawlessly tho. Almost as if it was a series of barely related events that were later wrapped up and christened as a "plan all along" to explain confusing plot development. But I wouldn't dare to event suggest this could be the case.

[Varodoc]

This one worked flawlessly tho. Almost as if it was a series of barely related events that were later wrapped up and christened as a "plan all along" to explain confusing plot development. But I wouldn't dare to event suggest this could be the case.

Well "flawlessly"... I mean... she did lose every ally she had and control of one of the two world's superpowers because she got injured in the eye, so it didn't really work flawlessly.

Saurfang even points out in their duel how she just keeps failing. She tried to break their hopes at Teldrassil, she failed. She set them to kill each others at Lordaeron, she failed.

[Quaade]

The plotwist: Sylvanas is using the Jailor for her own ends.

Sylvanas is far from being smart enough to do this. She probably thinks she is though and given how much Sylvanas flavoured cool-aid Blizzard seems to have drunk they probably give her plot armour so it becomes that way regardless of how much she as usually fucks up.

Because that's Sylvanas' entire stick, she fails upwards and regardless of how incompetent her plans are Blizzard will still call her brilliant despite nothing in-game actually proving this. If she planned the Wrathgate it was the dumbest ambush ever as her plan was to attack Arthas right in front of his own fortress that he could easily retreat to if things went bad. Since the people there were dead anyway have Arthas arrogantly go after them and when he's away from Icecrown THEN spring the ambush so he would have nowhere to run.

[Grazrug]

True, her good intentions of murdering everyone that draws breath and turning the world into a blighted nightmare to reflect her own emotional state. It is horrible how they made her look evil only now through retcons!!

Seriously... put those rose tinted glasses away and check anything written about her. She was a monster without a shred of morality from the moment she became undead and she did not change a bit after her free will was restored. Arguably she was even a sociopathic bitch before she died, considering even then she viewed the other elves as nothing but tools ("Arrows in her Quiver")

She was disgusted by the Forsaken, viewing them only as tools and a shield to protect herself, she murdered innocent farmers as guinea pigs in the development of her new plague, blighted Gilneas against the orders of Garrosh and soooo much more... she never had ANY good intentions, her only focus was to stay "alive" at any cost, because she was terrified by the torment that expects her after her second death (the Maw). If someone had hinted that the blood of newborn trolls would keep her alive that race would be extinct now.

Great way on mising my point mate. No, it was NOT her goal to wipe out all life on Azeroth before. That was a retcon from Blizzard so they could create the next scapegoat Warchief. This is not about her just being evil. She's made WORSE on purpose so fans like you have more ammunition to complain.

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Well "flawlessly"... I mean... she did lose every ally she had and control of one of the two world's superpowers because she got injured in the eye, so it didn't really work flawlessly.

Saurfang even points out in their duel how she just keeps failing. She tried to break their hopes at Teldrassil, she failed. She set them to kill each others at Lordaeron, she failed.

Uhm no? Saurfang was obviously trying to trigger Sylvanas. That's the secret. Don't make this writing deeper than it sounds.

[Kallisto]

Jailer: Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

I am a leaf on the wind.

Then to the cries of fangirls everywhere you got impaled.

Serenity joke mods I don't actually want harm to anyone here.

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Good points. This really raises quite a doubt about all that "two expansions planned in advance" jazz. Maybe it is true when it comes to purely gameplay features, but the story is so rushed, even contradictory at times, that it really makes you wonder a few things...

Stories are also planned out well in advance. When metzen did one of his post retirement interviews he stated how he was shown bfa cinematics (including the Alliance marching on Sylvanas in the Lordaeron throne room) when Wod was still the present expansion.

[Grazrug]

Then to the cries of fangirls everywhere you got impaled.

Serenity joke mods I don't actually want harm to anyone here.

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Stories are also planned out well in advance. When metzen did one of his post retirement interviews he stated how he was shown bfa cinematics (including the Alliance marching on Sylvanas in the Lordaeron throne room) when Wod was still the present expansion.

No. Metzen had just a different vision of Sylvanas overall then Alex does(who seems to still being salty over his ruined Alpha Orc male stroke with Garrosh). The BFA CGI Trailer shows that perfectly. The change of Sylvanas into the worst of them all is soley on Alex Afrasiabi alone and nobody else.

[Ophenia]

Well "flawlessly"... I mean... she did lose every ally she had and control of one of the two world's superpowers because she got injured in the eye, so it didn't really work flawlessly.

Saurfang even points out in their duel how she just keeps failing. She tried to break their hopes at Teldrassil, she failed. She set them to kill each others at Lordaeron, she failed.

We can't say she's failing if we don't know wtf she's been aiming for the whole time though

If she aimed at killing people and breaking the seal to shadowlands, well, then she never failed

[Canirus]

She didn't hesitate to save Varian's life which would've significally fueled the maw's power and as well as all the Horde and Alliance lives but when she became Warchief she slowly began to act different and then spiral out of control in BfA. We first notice her power when her eyes glow red for the first time and unleashes havoc upon her enemies with a banshee form we had not yet seen before. Sylvanas has been doing lots of OOC stuff what if the big plot twist of it all was her being controlled by the Jailor to cause as much death as possible and her "setting us all free" has a deeper meaning to it such as setting us all free from being used by the Jailor as she knows the champions of Azeroth can conquer the Legion, Alliance and Horde, so they can conquer death itself.

Controlled by someone out of her own will? Doesn't even make sense.

[Varodoc]

We can't say she's failing if we don't know wtf she's been aiming for the whole time though

If she aimed at killing people and breaking the seal to shadowlands, well, then she never failed

She also aimed at making the rebels suffer and maintain her position as Warchief of the Horde so that she could continue the bloodshed to her advanage, and she fails. She even laments how the war ended prematurely.

[Soon-TM]

She also aimed at making the rebels suffer and maintain her position as Warchief of the Horde so that she could continue the bloodshed to her advanage, and she fails. She even laments how the war ended prematurely.

And by REEEEEEE'ing her ass off at SoO 2.0, she effectively stopped the bloodshed she was supposed to encourage. She could have just stomped Sadfang into the ground and presto, more bloodshed - but I guess asking some consistency from Afrasiabi & co. is simply too much.

[Arikara]

counter-theory: she's crazy and doesn't need to make sense

[Protean]

Why update her voice lines for BFA talking about "I will expand the ranks of the Forsaken one way or another" if that wasn't going to central to your story? Or even relevant to it?

Maybe she partnered with the Jailer because he has the ability to let the forsaken procreate without relying on outside sources?

[StillMcfuu]

I'd say her being controlled would be completely out of character, she would kill herself the instant she thought it was possible.
But who the fuck knows anymore with how much the story had been changed and retconned in the last year.

[Asrialol]

Actually, said "conversation" happened while BfA was still under developed, and not "one month after BfA launched".

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Those aren't mutually exclusive. She could've wanted Helya's power to further her power in Azeroth, considering the Jailer doesn't seem to do anything to the living world.


Sylvanas never had any masters. She never "served" anyone. 'Striking a deal' doesn't mean 'become subservient to someone'.

Shhh, you're pointing out that forum dwellers here are clueless when it comes to lore/writing. You can't do that!

[Verdugo]

Shhh, you're pointing out that forum dwellers here are clueless when it comes to lore/writing. You can't do that!

Because you are the bastion of objecitve taste, what with you championing every decision Blizzard does.

[Varodoc]

And by REEEEEEE'ing her ass off at SoO 2.0, she effectively stopped the bloodshed she was supposed to encourage. She could have just stomped Sadfang into the ground and presto, more bloodshed - but I guess asking some consistency from Afrasiabi & co. is simply too much.

That's in-character. She has always been short-sighted, never able to maintain her composure, never able to remain focused and careful. In Warcraft III she had the chance to finally destroy the Lich King and his champion, but she chose to gloat instead and was defeated.

[Kithelle]

Actually, said "conversation" happened while BfA was still under developed, and not "one month after BfA launched".

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Those aren't mutually exclusive. She could've wanted Helya's power to further her power in Azeroth, considering the Jailer doesn't seem to do anything to the living world.


Sylvanas never had any masters. She never "served" anyone. 'Striking a deal' doesn't mean 'become subservient to someone'.

Umm what? Do I need to show you the definition of what it means to serve? She sure as hell serves the Jailer and has served others in the past...unless you're trying to say she did her little electric slide into Arthas because she wanted to die and fight by his side?

[Soon-TM]

That's in-character. She has always been short-sighted, never able to maintain her composure, never able to remain focused and careful. In Warcraft III she had the chance to finally destroy the Lich King and his champion, but she chose to gloat instead and was defeated.

In WC3 she was acting entirely of her own accord, whereas now she has a boss/powerful partner whom she (presumably) has to answer to. Yet she still throws a tantrum and gtfo's as if nothing happened, which means that she's an utter moron who can't be taken seriously. And when you can't take the villain seriously...

[Varodoc]

In WC3 she was acting entirely of her own accord, whereas now she has a boss/powerful partner whom she (presumably) has to answer to. Yet she still throws a tantrum and gtfo's as if nothing happened, which means that she's an utter moron who can't be taken seriously. And when you can't take the villain seriously...

So like in Cataclysm then? She had to follow Garrosh's orders but still defied his command when she decided to use the blight as soon as she started losing the battle of Gilneas.