alright who's looks better as Wonder woman?

[Doctor Amadeus]

And yet if you say Adam West now almost anyone will know who that is. He was a pop culture icon who became iconic for his Batman role but spread through to other media by portraying himself - all based on his popularity as Batman.

Lynda Carter is all but forgotten. Her acting chops and high heels don't even factor into it (and Adam West was a way better actor anyways, plus an excellent voice actor).

Also, there was only one Wonder Woman because she wasn't a popular character compared to the other heroes you mentioned - and now there is more than one WW, and Gal Gadot is an improvement.

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She looks like a relatively fit soccer mom. She's nowhere near a top-tier beauty, even in her generation.

And Gal Gadot was a Miss-something winner as well, so your point there is moot.

Adam West as Batman had it pretty easy and he was so in important they didn’t even give him a cameo in the 89 film.

Lynda Carter was held back due to the times.

Adam West second claim to fame was a Lady Chatterly Film.

[Kyphael]

I don't know what Miss-whatever thing Gal Gadot won, just that she won one. So in that respect they are the same.

She won Miss Israel 2004. I'll be honest, I had to look it up, but Lynda Carter was also Top 15 Miss World, which in terms of these beauty pageants does place her above Gadot. Regardless, I find Lynda Carter's beauty much more unique than Gadot who again, outside of movie shooting season looks like the average beautiful woman, whereas Lynda Carter had a poise and body that didn't quit.

[jackofwind]

She is, just not as big as Adam West. George Reeves is also a pop culture icon, even though he's not as big as Christopher Reeves.

She may have been a pop culture icon, but she isn't anymore. George Reeves is no longer a pop culture icon either, being surpassed by those who came after him.

I mean Benjamin Franklin was considered a pop culture icon in his day but he isn't anymore. That shit isn't like a presidential title where you get it for life - there are plenty who are now forgotten for various reasons.

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Adam West as Batman had it pretty easy and he was so in important they didn’t even give him a cameo in the 89 film.

Lynda Carter was held back due to the times.

Adam West second claim to fame was a Lady Chatterly Film.

Sorry, are we talking about who had to work harder or who made a more indelible and long-lasting impact on pop culture? Because life isn't fair, but that's beside the point.

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She won Miss Israel 2004. I'll be honest, I had to look it up, but Lynda Carter was also Top 15 Miss World, which in terms of these beauty pageants does place her above Gadot. Regardless, I find Lynda Carter's beauty much more unique than Gadot who again, outside of movie shooting season looks like the average beautiful woman, whereas Lynda Carter had a poise and body that didn't quit.

Miss World is ludicrous though, look up who actually won in 1972 over Carter (Belinda Green). She looks absolutely awful.

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She won Miss Israel 2004. I'll be honest, I had to look it up, but Lynda Carter was also Top 15 Miss World, which in terms of these beauty pageants does place her above Gadot. Regardless, I find Lynda Carter's beauty much more unique than Gadot who again, outside of movie shooting season looks like the average beautiful woman, whereas Lynda Carter had a poise and body that didn't quit.

Carter's body looks like it would quit within 30 seconds of anything remotely physically strenuous. She's got full-on hot dog legs FFS.

[Kyphael]

She may have been a pop culture icon, but she isn't anymore. George Reeves is no longer a pop culture icon either, being surpassed by those who came after him.

I mean Benjamin Franklin was considered a pop culture icon in his day but he isn't anymore. That shit isn't like a presidential title where you get it for life - there are plenty who are now forgotten for various reasons.

What criteria are you using here? Wizard World and comic book convention presences and appearances? The fandom determines whether or not someone is a pop culture icon. By virtue of discussing here as we type this, because we remember her as Gal Gadot's predecessor who set the stage Gal Gadot could step foot on, means Lynda Carter did something special and will never be forgotten as long as people remember Wonder Woman.

Just because Gal Gadot is the hot topic, doesn't mean Lynda is forgotten anymore than George Reeves or we wouldn't be talking about them. Just because Christopher Reeves was probably the greatest Superman ever doesn't erase George Reeves, anymore than it'll erase Dean Cain, Brandon Routh, or Henry Cavill who remain alive to keep their pop culture status bright, long after they're gone because we know they won't surpass Chris Reeves, either, but that's just an example.

[jackofwind]

What criteria are you using here? Wizard World and comic book convention presences and appearances? The fandom determines whether or not someone is a pop culture icon. By virtue of discussing here as we type this, because we remember her as Gal Gadot's predecessor who set the stage Gal Gadot could step foot on, means Lynda Carter did something special and will never be forgotten as long as people remember Wonder Woman.

Just because Gal Gadot is the hot topic, doesn't mean Lynda is forgotten anymore than George Reeves or we wouldn't be talking about them. Just because Christopher Reeves was probably the greatest Superman ever doesn't erase George Reeves, anymore than it'll erase Dean Cain, Brandon Routh, or Henry Cavill who remain alive to keep their pop culture status bright, long after they're gone because we know they won't surpass Chris Reeves, either, but that's just an example.

Pop icons aren't decided solely by their fans, they're people whose popularity is so big and widespread that they actually help define the era they're from. You could say they were pop culture icons (ie: when they had that level of popularity and impact), but it doesn't last forever.

Unless you're going to argue that all people who were considered pop culture icons in their day still are - like Mozart, for instance. If that's your argument then have at it I guess - but then will have to acknowledge Kanyizzle and the Kardashians to be pop culture icons for all eternity as well.

[Kyphael]

Miss World is ludicrous though, look up who actually won in 1972 over Carter (Belinda Green). She looks absolutely awful.

Carter's body looks like it would quit within 30 seconds of anything remotely physically strenuous. She's got full-on hot dog legs FFS.

Hot dog legs? You mean natural. If you think Gal Gadot looks as toned as she does outside of shooting season, she'll give you a reality check. That's a lot of exercise upkeep she does not even maintain outside her job to look like Wonder Woman. Lynda Carter's body looked as it did for the most part her entire youthful prime.

It's one thing to play Wonder Woman, another to embody Wonder Woman. Just like Christopher Reeves is still most people's Superman even though he was never as ripped as Henry Cavill.

And I agree, Lynda Carter is much more beautiful than Belinda Green! Though I wouldn't call Belinda Green awful.

[Volatilis]

Hot dog legs? You mean natural. If you think Gal Gadot looks as toned as she does outside of shooting season, she'll give you a reality check. That's a lot of exercise upkeep she does not even maintain outside her job to look like Wonder Woman. Lynda Carter's body looked as it did for the most part her entire youthful prime.

It's one thing to play Wonder Woman, another to embody Wonder Woman. Just like Christopher Reeves is still most people's Superman even though he was never as ripped as Henry Cavill.

And I agree, Lynda Carter is much more beautiful than Belinda Green! Though I wouldn't call Belinda Green awful.

typical mmo-c poster just sprouting more bullshit and when confronted with facts just ignores the post.

Gal shot wonder woman PREGNANT. She wasnt on steroid diet then bloats out into a pig in the off season, and if she does who cares its what they look like in the film. Get a clue and go back to google like you had to for her israel pagent.

And in the next breath you utter bullshit about christopher reeves he represents superman after being paralyzed? Hes not keeping in shape like fatty gal, Which is it idiot?

Flaming isn't allowed. Infracted.

[Kyphael]

Pop icons aren't decided solely by their fans, they're people whose popularity is so big and widespread that they actually help define the era they're from. You could say they were pop culture icons (ie: when they had that level of popularity and impact), but it doesn't last forever.

Unless you're going to argue that all people who were considered pop culture icons in their day still are - like Mozart, for instance. If that's your argument then have at it I guess - but then will have to acknowledge Kanyizzle and the Kardashians to be pop culture icons for all eternity as well.

Kind of unfair to compare Lynda Carter to Mozart. She's old, not over 200 years old.

And what do you mean pop icons aren't decided solely by their fans? People whose popularity are so big and widespread they define an era literally means their fans are making them iconic by keeping their presence alive, even if they themselves aren't making comic book appearances left and right. By your logic, Christopher Reevs is no longer a pop culture icon because he's dead, or Leonard Lemoy. How much time has to pass before they're no longer pop culture icons? I'll give you 200 years, centuries, sure, but Lynda Carter is still alive and synonymous with playing Wonder Woman.

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typical mmo-c poster just sprouting more bullshit and when confronted with facts just ignores the post.

Gal shot wonder woman PREGNANT. She wasnt on steroid diet then bloats out into a pig in the off season, and if she does who cares its what they look like in the film. Get a clue and go back to google like you had to for her israel pagent.

And in the next breath you utter bullshit about christopher reeves he represents superman after being paralyzed? Hes not keeping in shape like fatty gal, Which is it idiot?

Pretty sure you just compared full body paralysis with laziness or something, not sure I could even read your point, but if that was the intent, who's the idiot?

[Volatilis]

Kind of unfair to compare Lynda Carter to Mozart. She's old, not over 200 years old.

And what do you mean pop icons aren't decided solely by their fans? People whose popularity are so big and widespread they define an era literally means their fans are making them iconic by keeping their presence alive, even if they themselves aren't making comic book appearances left and right. By your logic, Christopher Reevs is no longer a pop culture icon because he's dead, or Leonard Lemoy. How much time has to pass before they're no longer pop culture icons? I'll give you 200 years, centuries, sure, but Lynda Carter is still alive and synonymous with playing Wonder Woman.

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Pretty sure you just compared full body paralysis with laziness or something, not sure I could even read your point, but if that was the intent, who's the idiot?

Im saying your logic is as inconsistent as fuck. You say Reeves represents superman because he embodies superman. But Gal doesnt because shes a fatty when not shooting wonder woman. Which isnt true and is stupid.

[Oakshana]

She is, just not as big as Adam West. George Reeves is also a pop culture icon, even though he's not as big as Christopher Reeves.

It's not so much that Lynda Carter wasn't as big as Adam West. The 70s Wonder Woman show was intended to be taken much more seriously. 60's BatMan was intended to be a campy romp. The filming & edition technique, style and technology of Wonder Woman wasn't any different than the Six Million Dollar Man, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, CHIPS or Battlestar Galactica. They did the best they could with what they had on hand at the time.

I mean, trying to compare Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman to Gal Gadot is like trying to compare Pong with an X-Box One. You just can't. Lynda Carter, for the day and age and comic book style fit the bill. She did an amazing job by comparison. She's wasn't a bad actress. It's just that all of those 70's shows had limitations of effects and most of them were poorly directed by television producers that couldn't make it in the Hollywood movie world and were producing absolutely awfully written scripts. Gal Gadot is the image we'd apply to Wonder Woman because she's changed dramatically since the 90s post-Byrne revamp.

Everything has to be dark, armored and edgy now. Lynda Carter's style and look wouldn't fit with it in this day and age. But for her time, and the Wonder Woman of the 70's and 80's, she was perfect for TV.

By comparison, BatMan was 100% intended to be campy and stupid. And the reason Adam West is remembered so much more widely was simply because after the show during the 70s and 80s he and Burt Ward went to every signing imaginable and then in the 90s he was cast BECAUSE he was Adam West and it was campy to do so. Lynda Carter didn't have the drive or desire to go that deep. It's just not an equivocal comparison.

[jackofwind]

Kind of unfair to compare Lynda Carter to Mozart. She's old, not over 200 years old.

And what do you mean pop icons aren't decided solely by their fans? People whose popularity are so big and widespread they define an era literally means their fans are making them iconic by keeping their presence alive, even if they themselves aren't making comic book appearances left and right. By your logic, Christopher Reevs is no longer a pop culture icon because he's dead, or Leonard Lemoy. How much time has to pass before they're no longer pop culture icons? I'll give you 200 years, centuries, sure, but Lynda Carter is still alive and synonymous with playing Wonder Woman.

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Pretty sure you just compared full body paralysis with laziness or something, not sure I could even read your point, but if that was the intent, who's the idiot?

The whole point of being a pop culture icon is that you're widely known and influential even among people who are not your fans or don't like your art. You're so big that you influence the zeitgeist itself. I would argue that Lynda Carter never did that, but even if you make the argument that she did she certainly does not anymore.

Being dead doesn't stop your influence from spreading, this isn't hard to see. Christopher Reeves made arguably more of an indelible mark on popular culture because of his accident, and he still has more of an impact now posthumously than Carter does. The same can be said for Adam West, who died in 2017. It's about how much of an impact you make on culture and how long that impact lasts, and the key to those being long-lasting is the depth of the impact you made. Some people like Adam West stay relevant in the societal consciousness after their death, others don't even stay relevant during their own lifetime.

And yes, having people directly replace you in terms of playing the same character can absolutely reduce the impact of your legacy. On the other hand, it can completely revitalize an interest in that character and end up enhancing your impact on societal consciousness.

[Shadowferal]

Show lasted for several good years.

She had the iconic look.

And as I distinctly recall, the criticism leveled at Gal Gadot was that she looked nothing like WW.

[Dellis0991]

Both look beautiful.

[Kyphael]

The whole point of being a pop culture icon is that you're widely known and influential even among people who are not your fans or don't like your art. You're so big that you influence the zeitgeist itself. I would argue that Lynda Carter never did that, but even if you make the argument that she did she certainly does not anymore.

Being dead doesn't stop your influence from spreading, this isn't hard to see. Christopher Reeves made arguably more of an indelible mark on popular culture because of his accident, and he still has more of an impact now posthumously than Carter does. The same can be said for Adam West, who died in 2017. It's about how much of an impact you make on culture and how long that impact lasts, and the key to those being long-lasting is the depth of the impact you made. Some people like Adam West stay relevant in the societal consciousness after their death, others don't even stay relevant during their own lifetime.

And yes, having people directly replace you in terms of playing the same character can absolutely reduce the impact of your legacy. On the other hand, it can completely revitalize an interest in that character and end up enhancing your impact on societal consciousness.

So the argument boils down to you not thinking Lynda Carter is a pop culture icon because she's not as popular as Christopher Reeves, or Adam West as examples, even though she's revered as both playing Wonder Woman and being the first woman to do so in pop culture? Or you'd say she's not, and people have already forgotten her and replaced her with Gal Gadot in the same way Christopher Reeves replaced George Reeves? Even though George Reeves has not really been forgotten?

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It's not so much that Lynda Carter wasn't as big as Adam West. The 70s Wonder Woman show was intended to be taken much more seriously. 60's BatMan was intended to be a campy romp. The filming & edition technique, style and technology of Wonder Woman wasn't any different than the Six Million Dollar Man, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, CHIPS or Battlestar Galactica. They did the best they could with what they had on hand at the time.

I mean, trying to compare Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman to Gal Gadot is like trying to compare Pong with an X-Box One. You just can't. Lynda Carter, for the day and age and comic book style fit the bill. She did an amazing job by comparison. She's wasn't a bad actress. It's just that all of those 70's shows had limitations of effects and most of them were poorly directed by television producers that couldn't make it in the Hollywood movie world and were producing absolutely awfully written scripts. Gal Gadot is the image we'd apply to Wonder Woman because she's changed dramatically since the 90s post-Byrne revamp.

Everything has to be dark, armored and edgy now. Lynda Carter's style and look wouldn't fit with it in this day and age. But for her time, and the Wonder Woman of the 70's and 80's, she was perfect for TV.

By comparison, BatMan was 100% intended to be campy and stupid. And the reason Adam West is remembered so much more widely was simply because after the show during the 70s and 80s he and Burt Ward went to every signing imaginable and then in the 90s he was cast BECAUSE he was Adam West and it was campy to do so. Lynda Carter didn't have the drive or desire to go that deep. It's just not an equivocal comparison.

Very well said.

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Im saying your logic is as inconsistent as fuck. You say Reeves represents superman because he embodies superman. But Gal doesnt because shes a fatty when not shooting wonder woman. Which isnt true and is stupid.

He EMBODIED Superman before he had a horrifying life-altering, spine-shattering accident that left him paralyzed from the neck down.

I never called Gal Gadot fatty, at most I said she's skinny outside of movie shooting season while Lynda Carter pretty much maintained her physique (which wasn't as muscular as Gadot's by any means) through her routine lifestyle.

[jackofwind]

So the argument boils down to you not thinking Lynda Carter is a pop culture icon because she's not as popular as Christopher Reeves, or Adam West as examples, even though she's revered as both playing Wonder Woman and being the first woman to do so in pop culture? Or you'd say she's not, and people have already forgotten her and replaced her with Gal Gadot in the same way Christopher Reeves replaced George Reeves? Even though George Reeves has not really been forgotten?

My argument is that Lynda Carter is not a pop culture icon because she is no longer widely-known outside of her niche fanbase, and then is known mostly as a figure in history. The same as other examples of people who were inconic in their era but are now merely historic figures because they aren't relevant to the modern era of pop culture - Mozart, Ben Franklin, Andy Warhol, Madonna, Pamela Anderson.

I do think she is largely forgotten because of the success Gal Gadot has had with the Wonder Woman mantle, much the same as Matt Salinger has been overwritten by Chris Evans with regards to Captain America. It seems like you're having trouble separating yourself from the fandom here and that's why you keep mentioning people like George Reeves not being forgotten. Just because a person's fans still remember them doesn't mean they are actually relevant to pop culture anymore (and could thus be considered pop culture icons). George Reeves is all but completely forgotten in current pop culture - he has no current relevancy or recognizability to the general population.

Pop culture icons aren't only remembered by their fans - the whole point is that they have such an impact on social culture that they become basically synonymous with that era. But the nature of this fact is that unless their legacy lasts and keeps actively being impactful they will not remain pop culture icons. For example, there will come a day when Schwarzenegger is essentially a footnote in film history rather than the quintessential action hero - we can already see it happening, though he is actively trying to stay relevant. He's not a pop culture icon anymore, even though he still has a lot of fans out there. Flash back to the 80's though and he was a household name even for people who had never seen most of his films. Now imagine that a bunch of actually successful Terminator films had come out in the 2000's with a different lead than him - this would have either caused him to fall further back into the shadows or brought him more to the fore - it's impossible to say which. What is sure though is that other people taking on his iconic role would impact his direct influence on pop culture.

A different example is Jack Nicholson. The quintessential Joker for many, definitely a pop culture icon - right up until Heath Ledger took his title away. This doesn't detract from Nicholson's performance, nor does it reduce his fanbase. What it did do though was start to replace him as the general household name for The Joker. Ledger's Joker became the Joker of the era. It was the portrayal referenced in other mediums and genres, and the one appearing in all the sitcoms that poach pop culture for easy laughs about widely recognizable characters and people.

It can be hard to acknowledge that pop culture icons fall out of relevancy if you are a fan of theirs, but it's the nature of these things. It's also important to remember that just because someone isn't relevant to modern pop culture it doesn't mean their work and legacy is irrelevant, nor that they should be discarded. It simply means that they do not drive the pulse of the current zeitgeist anymore - they still have a role to play but they aren't in the driver's seat. And in some ways that's a good thing, because it allows for a broader range of influences in the long run.

[Shadowferal]

Gal Gadot Posed with the Original Wonder Woman, Lynda Carter, at the Movie's Premiere
She literally bowed down to the OG Diana Prince.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Instant loss with the red-white-blue cringe look and the 60's hairstyle for carter.

Edit: I also have little to no love for the golden age comic books and most of the silver age as well.

[Ringthane]

She really doesn't, she was utterly forgettable. Thus why Adam West's Batman is still near-universally known and beloved and barely anyone knows who Carter is anymore.

You have to meet more than the same four people, dude. Lots of people know who Lynda Carter is.

[Witchblade77]

they both look good, but what amuses me about the whole debate is when Gal was first cast, people complained that she is too skinny, not muscled enough, etc etc.... while talking about how much better Linda Carter looked... while they essentially have the same exact body type. including very slender arms and legs with little to no definition on Linda. (and if you are not realizing that Linda Carter is wearing an actual corset? I'm very sorry to enlighten you, but she is.)

P.S. Linda Carter is the iconic wonder woman. she is definitely not forgettable. Gal Gadot is also fantastic, in a different way. they both represent wonder woman of their times. they both fit ongoing comics of their time.

[zephid]

Well I guess it depends what you are looking for. Lynda Carter is a closer match to what Wonder woman looks like in the comics, but on the other hand Gal Gadot looks better overall.