How is it possible that so few families have built any form of capital?

[Ivanstone]

Can does not equal does. The last time I checked, the simple act of purchasing a Kinder Egg does not cause harm.

There are plenty of noise laws and obscenity laws. There's curfews, dry counties, dry towns, and there were bans on gay marriage.

Technically, eating a cookie can cause harm, so it's time we banned those motherfuckers.

So every time the government makes a stupid law do we get rid of government or do we overturn the law?

How do you ban theft or harm without the government?

You still haven't told us how someone gets a broken arm fixed without having a friend who previously had government qualifications.

PS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder...afety_concerns

PPS
Sugar isn't sufficiently regulated especially considering the bad science created by insufficiently regulated capitalists.

[Machismo]

So every time the government makes a stupid law do we get rid of government or do we overturn the law?

How do you ban theft or harm without the government?

You still haven't told us how someone gets a broken arm fixed without having a friend who previously had government qualifications.

PS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder...afety_concerns

PPS
Sugar isn't sufficiently regulated especially considering the bad science created by insufficiently regulated capitalists.

You dared me to find one, I found plenty off the top of my head.

I'm not an anarchist, I believe in government. I simply want far less government than most people.

Time to ban all cookies.

[mittacc]

So, how old are you, and how much have you amassed?

22-25 (don't want to disclose it completely). Been working some periods along my full time studies for a bachelor & master in engineering, have around 15-20k in investments and cash. It's nothing massive but I've also been focusing on my degree, not making money. I've run the numbers and I could realistically retire by age 35 if I assume a 7% average return every year on my investments.

[Spectral]

Been working some periods along my full time studies for a bachelor & master in engineering, have around 15-20k in investments and cash.

Nice job. Saving while you're in school is pretty challenging and that habit's going to serve you well when you start earning much more.

[Ivanstone]

You dared me to find one, I found plenty off the top of my head.

I'm not an anarchist, I believe in government. I simply want far less government than most people.

Time to ban all cookies.

All of the ones you posted fall under the category of harm. You keep on thinking that your definitions are the same as everybody else's.

You think a Kinder ban is stupid, the families of the kids who died from choking on Kinder toys does not.

We don't need a cookie ban. We do need to regulate sugar since unscrupulous charlatans would rather lie about its side-effects than sell us an honest product.

You still haven't told us how someone gets a broken arm fixed without having a friend who previously had government qualifications.

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Your graph shows wage increases being higher than both housing and total inflation during that period.

So the rent isn't too damn high (although averages are a poor way of showing it) but the other things that are essential definitely are except for transportation and communication. The graph doesn't show the cost of fuel however.

Note that some of the things that are cheep and cheeper, are often made in cheeply in foreign countries where the people might be exploited.

[Spectral]

So the rent isn't too damn high (although averages are a poor way of showing it) but the other things that are essential definitely are except for transportation and communication. The graph doesn't show the cost of fuel however.

Note that some of the things that are cheep and cheeper, are often made in cheeply in foreign countries where the people might be exploited.

Yeah, ultimately there's too much regionalization and individualization to draw sweeping conclusions. I don't want to downplay the idea that people can't afford housing in cities they grew up in - that definitely does happen. I'm just not at all convinced that this is a national policy crisis.

[mittacc]

Nice job. Saving while you're in school is pretty challenging and that habit's going to serve you well when you start earning much more.

Thanks! I've always been a natural saver, bought my own first TV when I was 9 with saved allowance and birthday money for example. Didn't really have any purpose of saving apart from buying luxury stuff until early 2019 where I got some pretty damn good advice from my mother's friend who told me about the "pay yourself first" concept. I looked it up some more and man, that shit opens your eyes. I can make money which goes and makes me money which makes me even more money? Sign me up!

[Ivanstone]

Yeah, ultimately there's too much regionalization and individualization to draw sweeping conclusions. I don't want to downplay the idea that people can't afford housing in cities they grew up in - that definitely does happen. I'm just not at all convinced that this is a national policy crisis.

Its a local crisis. However there is a sufficient number of local crises that it can potentially rise to the level of a national crisis. There are several large cities that have housing issues and those cities have populations greater than multiple states.

[Machismo]

22-25 (don't want to disclose it completely). Been working some periods along my full time studies for a bachelor & master in engineering, have around 15-20k in investments and cash. It's nothing massive but I've also been focusing on my degree, not making money. I've run the numbers and I could realistically retire by age 35 if I assume a 7% average return every year on my investments.

I see no realistic way you can retire at 35, not with those numbers. Now, your current savings are fine for your age (way better than most), but the growth isn't that fast, and there's no likely way that you would be saving enough per year to do it. People should plan on having 20-25 times their desired annual salary in amassed assets.

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All of the ones you posted fall under the category of harm. You keep on thinking that your definitions are the same as everybody else's.

You think a Kinder ban is stupid, the families of the kids who died from choking on Kinder toys does not.

We don't need a cookie ban. We do need to regulate sugar since unscrupulous charlatans would rather lie about its side-effects than sell us an honest product.

You still haven't told us how someone gets a broken arm fixed without having a friend who previously had government qualifications.

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So the rent isn't too damn high (although averages are a poor way of showing it) but the other things that are essential definitely are except for transportation and communication. The graph doesn't show the cost of fuel however.

Note that some of the things that are cheep and cheeper, are often made in cheeply in foreign countries where the people might be exploited.

Buying a Kinder Egg causes harm? Nah, bullshit.

Flipping off a cop causes harm? Nah.

Moving goalposts.. again. Damn, you guys really love to do it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

This thread demonstrates which people have literally lived paycheck to paycheck, with no real means to accrue excess wealth, and those who have been coddled by their parents providing them with extra money to get their life started or make big life changing expenses like moving.

Socioeconomic Mobility is a thing, and it's getting lower and lower in the US. You start out rich, your life situation ensures you stay rich as you move out of childhood as your parent's connections and paying for your schooling provides with extreme levels of privilege, or your parents are poor, and because of lack of skills and money for schooling or connections to rich people, it remains difficult to come out of poverty.

I simply love that we have Americans working 80 hours a week and people in this thread, especially the Swede with their hefty welfare system, calling people "lazy".

[Spectral]

I see no realistic way you can retire at 35, not with those numbers. Now, your current savings are fine for your age (way better than most), but the growth isn't that fast, and there's no likely way that you would be saving enough per year to do it. People should plan on having 20-25 times their desired annual salary in amassed assets.

Depends on the engineering degree. If it's chemical engineering or something similarly well compensated, a six-figure starting salary is entirely plausible. If we use ~$85K after taxes, that gives us ~10 years to retirement with a 66% savings rate with an assumption of 5% growth.

Of course, there are a lot of assumptions built into that and it's generally sensible to save more prior to retiring, but moving into a state of semi-retirement quickly is way more feasible than most people realize. Of course, it comes with lifestyle limitations that most people who make good money aren't willing to take, but that's the tradeoff.

[Machismo]

Depends on the engineering degree. If it's chemical engineering or something similarly well compensated, a six-figure starting salary is entirely plausible. If we use ~$85K after taxes, that gives us ~10 years to retirement with a 66% savings rate with an assumption of 5% growth.

Of course, there are a lot of assumptions built into that and it's generally sensible to save more prior to retiring, but moving into a state of semi-retirement quickly is way more feasible than most people realize. Of course, it comes with lifestyle limitations that most people who make good money aren't willing to take, but that's the tradeoff.

That's going to be a tough road for most people. Could it be done? Sure. But, that's a pretty low overall amount of money being spent for most locations that would pay those wages. That also means no wife, and no kids.

Edit: Thanks for the link, I'm having fun with that particular calculator.

[Underverse]

People use all of their savings on retirement. Typical lack of interest in investing in the future of your genetic heritage.

[Spectral]

That's going to be a tough road for most people. Could it be done? Sure. But, that's a pretty low overall amount of money being spent for most locations that would pay those wages. That also means no wife, and no kids.

Adding a wife without kids makes things easier. Limiting spending to ~$30K/year as an individual in a dual income, no child house isn't that hard.

Anyway, you're right. Most people aren't inclined to do that and even if they are it'll be hard for a variety of reasons (kids being the most obvious one, that blows that expense planning all to hell). I'm not saying that it's a reasonable plan for most people, just that someone in their early 20s getting an MS in engineering with an explicit goal to invest as heavily as possible as quick as possible can actually generate quite a lot of investment capital quickly.

If their MS is petroleum engineering or some other high income degree, this gets considerably easier - if someone makes $100K/year after taxes, they can spend $50K/year and still expect to be close to retirement after about 10 years of investing. Throw in shared housing expenses with a spouse and that's pretty straightforward unless someone just loves spending money.

[Ivanstone]

Buying a Kinder Egg causes harm? Nah, bullshit.

Flipping off a cop causes harm? Nah.

Moving goalposts.. again. Damn, you guys really love to do it.

Looking at something from another person's point of view is moving goalposts? Ok. Guess you can't defend your personal definition of freedom without using absurd examples.

By all means continue to look the other way at the detrimental effects of society that are caused by dishonest people because that's all your doing.

You still haven't told us how someone gets a broken arm fixed without having a friend who previously had government qualifications.

[Underverse]

This thread demonstrates which people have literally lived paycheck to paycheck, with no real means to accrue excess wealth, and those who have been coddled by their parents providing them with extra money to get their life started or make big life changing expenses like moving.

Socioeconomic Mobility is a thing, and it's getting lower and lower in the US. You start out rich, your life situation ensures you stay rich as you move out of childhood as your parent's connections and paying for your schooling provides with extreme levels of privilege, or your parents are poor, and because of lack of skills and money for schooling or connections to rich people, it remains difficult to come out of poverty.

I simply love that we have Americans working 80 hours a week and people in this thread, especially the Swede with their hefty welfare system, calling people "lazy".

People move up all the time. Sure, less than they once could when education didn't matter and most people could bootstrap themselves into a decent living, as my grandfather did. But now high-paying jobs require skills, skills require education, and education requires investment. People who don't have the time or are too afraid to take the risks to make that investment fall behind, not just because of privilege, but also because it simply takes more effort to reach average. And more than effort, it requires strategy.

[Machismo]

Adding a wife without kids makes things easier Limiting spending to ~$30K/year as an individual in a dual income, no child house isn't that hard.

Anyway, you're right. Most people aren't inclined to do that and even if they are it'll be hard for a variety of reasons (kids being the most obvious one, that blows that expense planning all to hell). I'm not saying that it's a reasonable plan for most people, just that someone in their early 20s getting an MS in engineering with an explicit goal to invest as heavily as possible as quick as possible can actually generate quite a lot of investment capital quickly.

If their MS is petroleum engineering or some other high income degree, this gets considerably easier - if someone makes $100K/year after taxes, they can spend $50K/year and still expect to be close to retirement after about 10 years of investing. Throw in shared housing expenses with a spouse and that's pretty straightforward unless someone just loves spending money.

Yes, living like a miser in your 20's will go a long way to making early retirement a real possibility. I didn't save terrible well in my 20's, but I did in my 30's. I think most people underestimate the importance of compounding interest. I was reading the other day about how much the average American pays eating out every year, and I was astounded. It's about $3k per person.

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Looking at something from another person's point of view is moving goalposts? Ok. Guess you can't defend your personal definition of freedom without using absurd examples.

By all means continue to look the other way at the detrimental effects of society that are caused by dishonest people because that's all your doing.

You still haven't told us how someone gets a broken arm fixed without having a friend who previously had government qualifications.

People are claiming all these things cause harm, which is absurd.

Enjoy moving those goalposts once again. You asked a question, I answered... and the answer clearly bothered you. If you want to know how someone else would to it, ask them. I gave you my answer.

[Shadowferal]

And this is why Libertarians are usually portrayed as villains.

[Stormspellz]

There's a lot of lower-middle class families that could've been upper-middle class if they didn't buy so many unnecessary things that depreciate in value.

damn that need to buy a car, and clothes, and food. If only...

[Shadowferal]

Now trumps later every day...food on the table, clothing, and a roof...paycheck to paycheck.

Most Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, survey shows

When you have a seemingly endless list of bills to pay and financial responsibilities to take care of, it can be tough to make sure there's enough money to go around.

The average American is struggling to make ends meet each month, with 59% of U.S. adults saying they live paycheck to paycheck, according to a recent survey from Charles Schwab. Furthermore, nearly half of survey participants say they carry credit card debt and struggle to keep up with the payments.

If you're having a hard enough time paying the bills and putting food on the table without racking up debt, saving for the future is probably the last thing on your mind. Only 38% of people have an emergency fund, according to Charles Schwab, and one in five Americans don't have a dime saved for retirement, according to a survey from Northwestern Mutual.