I expected Balance Changes for Season 4

[Tyrannica]

It's said mostly CM staff, there's still devs that got cut.

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Cloak of shadow cooldown is already microscopic enough, no need for dwarf racial. Cloak of shadow if not deleted should have a 3 day cooldown cuz right now these fucking pussies in WPvP will attack you and are always allowed to escape from the fight anything THEY DECIDE and sit in their shitty perma invisibility (it's not stealth, stealth can be seen when paying attention like SC2 Ghosts) and just jerk off until all cooldowns come back and try again. Literally the most coward gameplay in any MMO on earth. They should open with their sissy stun, and just fight until they win or die. Period.

Blizzard designing a class that makes people believe this is a respectable way of playing, fucking pathetic.

Meanwhile ferals with vision of perfection proc King of the Jungle in the middle of a combat to allow them instant swiftflightform, escaping any other players and heal up while in air and land stealthed on the ground, soullscape got it covered in a wpvp video over at YT, the guy only seems to play what is really powerful in wpvp, so basicly feral druid, unholy dk and DH. But i guess, ww monk and some casters work as well, like arcane/fire mage, demo/destro lock. Rogues were really nerfed in all of BfA and were op in the first 1-2 months, and top tier until 8.2. when their azerite traits for burst got nerfed to the ground and hp pools became higher, and more classes stronger.(they benefited from BfAs class weakness, greatly till 8.2.)

A rogues is strong as long as he got his cds, this abomination does not need any cd to escape anyone.

Yeah, played plenty or rogues and can only say currently the rogue is not as powerful as in past expansions, just regarding wpvp.

in legion he had a legendary cloack that gave him back 30% of his hp without cd by using feint, feint had only 5 sec cd. In BfA its 15 sec and there is no heal mechanic involved as the cloak stopped to work after lvl115.
This and unlimitd vanispowders that means unlimited vanishes. Maybe they still work in BfA zones? some buffs do work there that are from legion.(operation murloc stat buff)

In WoD rogues had burst of speed and usually used this over shadowstep in wpvp, to have mountspeed in stealth at all times, got later nerfed and finally removed.

Now you think CoS is a problem that was in the game since TBC? I rather see a problem with rogues not having CoS in classic, how could they compete with a spriest and warlock? CoS is really needed for this class. Go play classic as a rogue and figure once naxx gear is out on casters.

[Eapoe]

Rogues are just really good for PvP. All there really is to say about it. Perma slows and Shadowstep means they stick to people like glue. They have enough CC to stun multiple people for decently long times, or even just one long enough to burn another down. They can escape and heal up with little effort. In a Bg setting a decent rogue can hold a flag long enough for backup to arrive just thru clever use of Saps, Cheap Shot, Blind, FoK spamming, just to Vanish and redo it all over (I held a flag against 2 bad players as an inexperienced alt not to long ago). They have great survival tools with CoS, Evasion, Cheat Death, amongst others. They have a decent damage burst window for a team with Kidney Shot talent and doesn’t break in damage.
That said, they do have weaknesses. If your defensives are down and/or you’re caught out of position. I’m sure there are others but that’s all I can think of and I’m tired. That said, it’s incredibly fun to play in PvP.

[DemonDays]

Rogues are just really good for PvP. All there really is to say about it. Perma slows and Shadowstep means they stick to people like glue. They have enough CC to stun multiple people for decently long times, or even just one long enough to burn another down. They can escape and heal up with little effort. In a Bg setting a decent rogue can hold a flag long enough for backup to arrive just thru clever use of Saps, Cheap Shot, Blind, FoK spamming, just to Vanish and redo it all over (I held a flag against 2 bad players as an inexperienced alt not to long ago). They have great survival tools with CoS, Evasion, Cheat Death, amongst others. They have a decent damage burst window for a team with Kidney Shot talent and doesn’t break in damage.
That said, they do have weaknesses. If your defensives are down and/or you’re caught out of position. I’m sure there are others but that’s all I can think of and I’m tired. That said, it’s incredibly fun to play in PvP.

Rogues are really good EVERYWHERE.

No other class is literally the king of everything.

Great single target, great cleave, great AoE, great self heals, great defensives, great utility and great mobility. Great in PvP. STEALTH.

Playing a Rogue has no downside. They have no weakness.

[Kralljin]

Now you think CoS is a problem that was in the game since TBC? I rather see a problem with rogues not having CoS in classic, how could they compete with a spriest and warlock? CoS is really needed for this class. Go play classic as a rogue and figure once naxx gear is out on casters.

Because Classic wasn't balanced around Arena.
Rogues were focusing on picking off lone targets, which they absolutely could take out and focusing on objectives.

If you entered into a zerg as rogue, you moved in for the kill and got there afterwards or rolled over and died.
Which, quite frankly, is fitting for a class that has a strong assassin theme, you're not supposed to stay in fights for a long time like a Warrior.

[Beefkow]

Wait, you expected balance changes?

Blizzard is done with BFA, they're moving on to shadowlands.

You're crazy to think the devs would even care about class balance and design itself.

[Nnyco]

Pvp has always taken a backseat to pve in this game. With the layoff of a lot of their staff, it's only natural that pvp has the least amount of changes in a game that is already suffering from lack of changes.

Ah yes, forgot that the community managers fix pvp. Stop pulling shit out of your arse, it just makes you look bad.

[Th3Scourge]

who needs balance changes when you just delete people with infinite stars

[Mozu]

Ah yes, forgot that the community managers fix pvp. Stop pulling shit out of your arse, it just makes you look bad.

Ignoring reality and being an unabashed bootlicker just makes you look bad.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ignoring reality and being an unabashed bootlicker just makes you look bad.

Gonna ask again when did they lay off any pvp staff exactly?

[Nnyco]

Ignoring reality and being an unabashed bootlicker just makes you look bad.

Ah yes, instead of showing us facts that they layed off developers, you just try todo the good ol' switchero.

[Tyrannica]

Because Classic wasn't balanced around Arena.
Rogues were focusing on picking off lone targets, which they absolutely could take out and focusing on objectives.

If you entered into a zerg as rogue, you moved in for the kill and got there afterwards or rolled over and died.
Which, quite frankly, is fitting for a class that has a strong assassin theme, you're not supposed to stay in fights for a long time like a Warrior.

lol yeah 1 way ticked warrior, i'd say its ok, as long as the target is dead.

Problem with arena since TBC is, some devs use it as excuse, yet arena is not balanced either, i see only the same comps dominating each expansion. RMP/RMD is dominating a loooong time now, along with few other comps

So, yeah i think arena is pretty unbalanced in itself the shift to team pvp did not change anything in regard to balance, it just became different. I have to adimit the rogue class is really good in all pvp aspects, but AV zergs. Zergs are not his thing. 3 specs and not 1 viable for zergs, unlike mages, who only could be kept at bay in RBGs, which i think are dead right now.

So, if SL changes class design and balance, they should make it so, that rogues have a spec that makes sense in zergs, while underwhelming performing specs, get heir fix. enhance shaman comes to mind, did not see one dominating a 5vs5 1vs1 arena over at dalaran for a long time now, same with spriest, but he performecs much better in team pvp.(hi voidshift and peels/2nd row freecast)

And warlock, if i would play warlock again my 1st main, i would go for demonology for fun, because how super flat the design is of destro and affliction. This class needs the MoP class redesign treatment.

But, whats to expect here when blizzard even fired some actual good class designer years ago. yeah, that corporate fires creative talent.

[Kralljin]

Problem with arena since TBC is, some devs use it as excuse, yet arena is not balanced either, i see only the same comps dominating each expansion. RMP/RMD is dominating a loooong time now, along with few other comps

Rob Pardo (a really huge name at Blizzard a few years ago) flat out said in 2009 that Arena was a mistake and should've never been implemented.
He in particular citied balance issues of the mode itself and how they had to change classes just for the sake of Arena and that a "competitive E-sport" mode doesn't fit into the game.

So, if SL changes class design and balance, they should make it so

Random guess: Won't happen.

Blizzard essentially set themselves up for an unwinable match, the concept of Class fantasy based on strength and weaknesses just doesn't work in game modes that focus on group sizes below ~8 people within a rather tiny space and only a singular objective to win the game (=killing the enemy).

If you design a class / spec that is rather squishy, they are completely fucked in such a deathmatch scenario, the complete opposite goes for CD heavy specs that can one shot people every X minutes but then become deadweights.
There are certain weakness (or strengths) can simply cannot exist within this deathmatch mode, if then throw in the removal of "hardcounters" in order to have more balanced chances against every match up, you homogenized your class design by a massive degree.

Blizzard scrambled for over a decade with Arena balance, introduced PvP Talents and other tuning knobs to balance PvP seperately from PvE and still can't get it right.
Now they decided to also balance the game around M+, which isn't necessarily similiar to raids in terms of performance.

In other words, Blizzard couldn't balance classes around two modes (Raids and Arena) and since BfA they also attempt to tackle M+ alongside it.
That won't work. Period.

Blizzard needs either implement even heavier barriers between Raids, Arena and M+ in terms of class balance or all three modes will end up as at best mediocre balanced hodgepodge(s).

[callipygoustp]

I expected Balance Changes for Season 4

I know you said "I don't know why" but seriously, wtf, then why did you expect changes?

"I had nothing to go on but I still expected changes" - some of you people, I swear....

[Jester Joe]

Ignoring reality and being an unabashed bootlicker just makes you look bad.

The only people "ignoring reality" here are the ones still falsely claiming "Blizzard laid off 800 people!!!".

Activision Blizzard as a whole laid off 800.
Several sources point to Activision has having nearly 600 of those, while Blizzard laid off around 200, and close to none (or none at all) were devs.

[Rucati]

Don't worry though, they removed Guardian Druids from pvp, you know that one guy in top 100 that played Guardian is probably pretty upset. A shame they did nothing about Mages, Warlocks, Rogues and Demon Hunters though.

I wouldn't mind if they just did no balance changes at all, but when they go in and nerf things that aren't even a problem to begin with it just makes it look worse. Like, oh Guardian Druids are doing too much damage, but Warlocks hitting 140k Chaos Bolts every two seconds? That seems fine. Like come on, it's just a slap in the face at this point.

[Tyrannica]

Rogues are really good EVERYWHERE.

No other class is literally the king of everything.

Great single target, great cleave, great AoE, great self heals, great defensives, great utility and great mobility. Great in PvP. STEALTH.

Playing a Rogue has no downside. They have no weakness.

as a pointed out as a long ass rogue player this is simply not true, they have a weakness, its called zerg AV/IoC sure you can go into towers, kill that glaive/tank whatever, hold the ore mine and so on.

But like all other melees you will never really be any useful in the big zergs, where the fun is in such bgs. What can you do against 20-40 other players? you basicly relly only could throw that poisoned knife or go in for a few seconds with CoS/vanish availible and try to burst 1 healer down.

Meanwhile mage, spriest, lock, laser owl do it all from safe range.

I think thats the odd side of a rogue in general pvp - we have 3 DD specs, yet not a single one is truly ranged. If a hunter finally got his melee spec, why can't a rogue get a range dd spec? Don't have to be any good in arena or raids either, just for those zergs it would be useful.

But since thats not really in the class immersion cards, they will stay with that flaw forever.

Acting like, rogues are the best class there is in pvp, is a bit ridiculous with druids beeing a thing in all aspects of pvp and 4 specs all with stealth and endless moblity and partly cc immunity while in other forms. I played both for years.

I have to say a druid is always far superior, the class i pure opness by design, its almost comical. In legion when rogues were at their best, maybe even better than in tbc, cata and wod, either through high dmg scaling in arenas, or ridiculous op legendaries in wpvp, only the TANK druid did spit him in his face, and prevouisly feral specs neutered him.

And in arenas druid just go heal, i did. i felt true power even with randoms and any variation of combs - while as rogue you better get a mage to feel the same.

Top class for pvp, and one of the best pure DD specs. Sadly not the best pvp class, bascily any class with a heal spec is the best pvp class and its all too true, as they usually come with quit strong dd specs, too.

So this is his weakness, no heal spec/no range dd spec. Use this knowledge to your advantage. :P

[Polarthief]

I heard on youtube (bellular and other gaming news I follow) that Blizzard fired almost their entire QA deparment, so they don't test anything or get any feedback. Blizzard designers don't read forums or player feedback so the only thing they do is make a new ability or a new BG and move on to the new zone/abillity/mode

I know this is probably a baseless rumor, but it would make a LOT of sense if it was true, considering they're constantly asking for feedback and constantly ignoring it.

[Raugnaut]

I don't know why, even after season 2 and 3's complete fiasco, I still expected Blizzard to release balance changes for season 4.

Right now, at least in the US (haven't checked EU) almost 70% of the teams that achieved rank 1 titles were exactly Rogue+Mage+Paladin, with the other 30%s~ being composed of 1/3 RMD, RMPriest, and 20% the rest.

Like what is even wrong with Blizzard at this point

Healer representation on the Gladiator bracket is 90% Druids and Paladins, 5% shamans, 4% Disc priests, 1% MW monks (but those got buffed, thank god) and 0% holy priests

Not to mention the utter and extreme dominance of Rogue+Mage in every single tier bracket except the lowest of ratings (which I don't have access to ladder data so I can only speculate rogue/mage doesnt exist there)

Despite all this, and despite being yet another season I am likely to skip due to "#NoChanges", I don't know why I still expected changes to happen

Did blizzard really fired everyone?

Rogue/Mage exists in low arena rating, but they tend to be either 350 ilvl, no neck, or the mage walks into the middle of the room and never uses invis or iceblock, and the rogue doesn't stun or CC.

[Doffen]

People act like this is something that happened in BfA only. Seeing this is about arena it was never balanced. Never. It has been like this in Arenas since The Burning Crusade.

I get it though, it is other times now, you would think balance in PvP Arenas would be better now than 2/4/8/12 years ago. Sadly the bar barely moved those years.

And poor balance is not because of the laid off staff. Come on. What was the excuse in WotLK/Cata? Too many employees? What about WoD? The 6 employees at work had too much to handle?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I know this is probably a baseless rumor, but it would make a LOT of sense if it was true, considering they're constantly asking for feedback and constantly ignoring it.

It’s not only a baseless rumour it’s also a disproven one they lauded off 11 QA out of over 200.