The big bad of the expansion: N'Zoth VS The Horde

[Raisei]

I am still torn about N'zoth. I do not think he is actually evil. The Old Gods are more like flesh machines that are constructed for a purpose by the Void Lords and do what this purpose requires without falling under the classification of good or evil. There is also reason to believe that he would aid us in our upcomming fight against Sylvanas and the Jailer since he does not profit from a dead planet anymore then we do.
Besides this, he clearly has a specific role for us in mind. He selected us (even before the U'unat fight) and somehow wanted us to succeed. At that point it could have been because he was planning his own release with Azshara, but he is still very ... uh... supportive I guess. He gives us corrupted gear to aid us and congratulates us every time we beat his minions in a Mythic + dungeon. He probably wants us as his prime soldiers in the comming Black Empire, much like Arthas wanted us to be his vanguard.

So while I know N'zoth's continued existance will be a problem for us, I kinda would like to explore the option of an alliance with him against Sylvanas/Jailer, as impossible as that is.

This is the difference between N'zoth and Sylvanas, he gives me pause and makes me think about what his goals actually are. He is not all powerful, in fact he is called the "weakest" of the Old Gods, so he has to rely on plots and influencing people. He is in a word "interesting". Sylvanas is just an overpowered megalomanic zombie that wants to murder everyone for her own benefit and carries a massive plot shield, so she cannot fail, she is no more interesting then Gargamel and will be killed off soon (but not soon enough)

So I think the Big Bad of the Expansion is N'zoth but only because he is the more interesting villain. The Horde is too foolish to be interesting, just a mindless mass of bodies that will attack anything their Warchief tells them to as long as they shout "For the Horde" loud enough.

was there EVER a was where innocents didnt die and towns were not destroyed?

Certainly most wars cost the lifes of innocents. But there is still a difference between colateral damage and targeting a civilian center for destruction AFTER you won the war. Sylvanas knew there were no soldiers left in Teldrassil and only civilians. But since she felt she had to teach Delaryn a lesson in how to kill hope, she murdered them all. These are the kinds of actions people do label as war crimes to this day.

and dividing the genocide and teldrasil into two points seems a bit disgenuous too as thats one thing...

See, funny thing. I had several Hordies tell me that the Purge of Dalaran with it's enormous death count of 5-10 Belfs counts as a genocide by the official diffinition of the word. By this logic the Horde has commited a ton of genocides. Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Theramore, Brennaden... the list goes on... point is, Teldrassil is in no way the only time the Horde commited genocide.

scorched earth, where was that, teldrasil again? or lordaeron where alliance did it?

Every piece of earth the Horde takes under Sylvanas ends up blighted by her Forsaken. You literally meet a Forsaken in the pre-WF scenario on Darkshore that claims he has a forest to blight and you see Blight Wagons everywhere during the WF. You can't get earth much more scorched then turning it into a blighted wasterland where nothing but zombies can survive. Which already is new levels of stupid since the Horde has been whining for ages that they require fertile grounds to survive. Shame Sylvanas doesn't give a rat's ass about the Horde's living members.

No idea what you mean with Lordaeron? Do you mean with Arthas when he was controlled by the spirit of an Orc or when Sylvanas blighted her own capital? Both had nothing to do with the Alliance.

and who was brainwashed apart from derek (who was planed only)? bcs if Derek is the only case, then Anduin in pandaria brainwashed (mindcontroled) as much people as Sylva in bfa, just he did it to HIS OWN soldier

Argueably she brainwashed halve the leadership of the Horde, since Talryssa, Liadrin, Lor'themar, Baine, every Druid that ever existed in the Horde and even Firepaw should have cut her head off after Teldrassil, yet they were content watching where the Psycho Warchief was going with this.

But more to the point. Anduin basically Jedi Mind Tricked his guards to escape, he never caused any harm to them and gave them no orders that would put them in danger or violate their personal feelings. Sylvanas tortured Derek violently to break his spirit and intended for him to murder his mother, brother and his beloved sister. Basically she was gonna do to him what Arthas did to her.

If you cannot see the difference between these two acts then I don't know what to say, putting them on the same level is ridiculous.

[Lolites]

Purge of Dalaran with it's enormous death count of 5-10 Belfs counts as a genocide by the official diffinition of the word. By this logic the Horde has commited a ton of genocides.

No idea what you mean with Lordaeron?

casualties in dalaran were heavy and it was described as bloody affair, so its hardy 5-10 dead... if it was a genocide, thats debatable as we dont have kill count, but it sure was ethnic purge and kind of mass murdering of innocent shop keepers...
and horde is not the only one wiping a lot of civilians, look up stonespire tribe for example, and that wasnt even in a war, whole tribe was wiped out so dwarfs could ding in their homeland... shit like that is going on both sides for ages...

there is a huge scorched area leading from north through tirisfal to undercity, thats what i mean, thats the path alliance lead their forces to atack on UC, it was partialy blighted later but scorched by alliance first during their campaign

and sure sylvanas trying to make derek into weapon is horrible... but that doesnt make anduin mind controling someone allright in any way, thats just alibism like "i did something bad, BUT someone else did worse so its ok"

- - - Updated - - -

10 characters

bael modan was abandoned long time AFTER the massacre of stonespire, the artifact was found BCS they dig there, which was the reason of the massacre - greed
taurajo is completely different issue, and could be somehow viewed as military target (bcs of its position) but bael modan was not in any way military target, there wasnt even war back then

sure, we can assume NOW what she was trying to do, that doesnt make it justified to attack her before, when we had no clue... thats just alibism, and poor at that... and Genn didnt give a fuck about valarjar, he attacked bcs he was thirsty for revenge

[Sanguinerd]

8.3 would've had alot more impact if N'Zoth being free was actually something that could be noticed all over the planet.. it's a fuckin Old God for fucks sake - even if he is "the weakest one" as people just love to point out

Without Magni bothering us about Uldum and the Vale would we even notice?

[Accendor]

The cinematic shows Sylvanas directly making the order to catapult operators to burn Teldrassil after, as memory serves, she had originally claimed the goal was capture. There's a lot of stuff you can blame on the Horde in general, but I don't think that's one of them.

Then you think wrong, simply as that.

[omeomorfismo]

That kid scene was pretty terrible, but imho the most disgusting scene is that Forsaken mage in a basement who turned a peasant into a fish and then laughed. That's just....

And Horde fanboys then have the gall to defend Sylvanas.

lol, why blizzard could rememeber so well why people choose forsakens to rp amoral sociopats and still write bullshit like bfa voss and calia?

[Accendor]

He's too busy Alliance whiteknighting to notice anything else

Come on, be fair with me here: I really do not need to whiteknight the alliance. Blizzard does that all by themselves. If it was my decision Jaina would have flooded OG after Theramore and be executed for it and Tyrande would not have stopped at Darkshore but instead broke all ties with the alliance and started to destroy innocent horde villages left and right.
If I had to chose, Teldrassil would perhaps even be an inside job to get the war really going.

[Aucald]

No, the Horde is interesting in destroying every trace of the Alliance. It doesn't wage wars of conquests, but of exterminations, ever since it was first formed on Draenor. All the wars it waged against the Alliance had one goal only : to exterminate the Alliance, destroy its kingdoms and slaughters its inhabitants. From the point of view of any sane member of the Alliance, there is absolutely no difference in the size of the threat between a Faceless one worshipping N'Zoth and a Grunt following orders from Warchief X or Y.

The Horde can't be reasoned with. At best, it can be beaten into temporary submission, and even then, it's only possible since it established itself in kalimdor by allowing it to retain most of the territories it stole by force.

Honestly, who cares about a potential Apocalypse when you have a very real army of psychotic monsters salivating at the idea of coming down on your lands to kill you, your family, your friends, your nation and your history ? An army which allows for the spread of abominations like the Undead, for instance.

Even if I agreed with your position, I don't really see how the Horde is more dangerous than N'Zoth. The Horde exterminating the Alliance is still going to leave a bevy of life on Azeroth - all the Horde races, neutral races, animal and plant life, etc. etc. N'Zoth is going to destroy *all* of Azeroth's organic life, corrupting and warping every trace of the world into its Black Empire, leaving the only things "alive" on Azeroth the multi-eyed horrors and twisted servants of Ny'alotha. This goes above and beyond targeted destruction of a faction, beyond even genocide; it would be death and destruction on a scale the Horde itself is incapable of.

The Horde is also not a monolith - while it has done horrible things it has also fought to protect Azeroth; just as it did in the Third War against the Legion. They have an issue with allowing bad leaders to sway them into committing horrid acts on a grand scale, that can't be denied; but it is a problem that can be corrected with time and effort - and may have partially been fixed already by removing the position of Warchief that aggregated all power into one position (a real problem when people like Garrosh or Sylvanas found their way into said position). The Horde is deeply flawed, but can be redeemed - the Old Gods cannot be redeemed in any way.

[Newname1234567890]

Umm not really?

Genocide doesn't need to be committed in a war
Neutral innocents don't need to be murdered nor towns burned down
Scorched Earth doesn't need to be committed
Teldrassil didn't need to be destroyed
Ruins of Lordaeron didn't need to be blighted
Dead didn't need brainwashed/enslaved

Sorry that is more than half right there that really had little to do with the war and more to do with the Horde following every order Sylvanas gave blindly

Literally said the genocide was evil and a mark against the Horde on the list of naming them as villains(including teledrasil in with that).

Ruins of Lordeaon was a brilliant retreating manoeuvre which if not for the intervention by Jania would have been even more devastating to the Allaince. Hardly evil.

Scorched earth is also vaild and had been used in war since forever. Hardly evil.

I haven't leveled a alliance character so dont know alot about the burning of that village. But Kul Tirans were aiding the allaince in the island expedition so maybe they arent neutral at that point? Regardless not great.

Death Knights use undead all the time. So that also counts against the allaince.

[Thage]

At this point, N'zoth feels like a postscript.

[therealbowser]

BFA was the "loose ends" expansion where we are tying up everything left on Azeroth that we haven't already fixed. With Legion, there hasn't been much left to speak of. Basically the only other loose end was the Lich King, and well... we can tell how that's going to end.

What does this all mean? We know that the WoW team plans about two expansions ahead, or more... so it means they have original stories lined up for the next several years. Frankly, I'm okay with this. Shadowlands looks decent, at least in terms of the story (Sylvanas-related nonsense aside). But hey, I digress.

There wasn't a big bad in BFA, that's the whole problem of the expansion. The Alliance basically won at Battle of Dazor'alor, and everything past that point was nonsense. The cutscene where Anduin makes it sound like the combined might of Saurfang and the Alliance isn't enough to take on Sylvanas's tiny band of Horde loyalists, that if they lost "we lose everything", made me cringe pretty badly. Awful writing, there, extremely forced.

N'zoth was hinted at before 8.2, and it wasn't until 8.3 that he became relevant. He's nothing, and feels out of nowhere because he is. People have been wanting Lovecraftian Old God content for years and years and what we get instead is a complete joke.

N'zoth may be the final raid boss of the expansion, but he was not the big bad. It's like calling Archimonde the big bad of WoD. He wasn't; he appeared out of nowhere. Grommash Hellscream was the big bad of WoD and everything was leading up to a big confrontation to him... that we never got. Same with Sylvanas, except that if you were Horde, Anduin became the "big bad" even though he is not an intimidating or even really unlikable character (in terms of being "bad" to the Horde, many people hate him for being nice after all).

BFA had little to no direction, and it had no big bad. These are major reasons why the overall story for the expansion was such trash.

My two cents.

[Raisei]

Even if I agreed with your position, I don't really see how the Horde is more dangerous than N'Zoth. The Horde exterminating the Alliance is still going to leave a bevy of life on Azeroth - all the Horde races, neutral races, animal and plant life, etc. etc. N'Zoth is going to destroy *all* of Azeroth's organic life, corrupting and warping every trace of the world into its Black Empire, leaving the only things "alive" on Azeroth the multi-eyed horrors and twisted servants of Ny'alotha. This goes above and beyond targeted destruction of a faction, beyond even genocide; it would be death and destruction on a scale the Horde itself is incapable of.

You definately have a point here. However I would point out that a lot of what runs around on Azeroth as intelligent life at this moment is actually in part a creation of the Old Gods and I think it can be argued that several races owe their "humanity" (for lack of a better term) to them. Thanks to the Curse of Flesh what was unfeeling Mechagnomes, Earthen and Vrykul became Gnomes, Dwarfs and Humans with a rich asortment of feelings. Il'gynoth is in this regard not wrong that the Old Gods are our true creators.
So the question is if this has any bearing on what N'zoth plans. As I said above he seems to be quite supportive considering we are killing his minions on every turn, too supportive considering he SHOULD want us to fail. I think his goal is more complex then just bringing about Ny'alotha and the Black Empire. I am probably wrong and we will likely not see any deeper plot, but I like the idea.

The Horde is also not a monolith - while it has done horrible things it has also fought to protect Azeroth; just as it did in the Third War against the Legion. They have an issue with allowing bad leaders to sway them into committing horrid acts on a grand scale, that can't be denied; but it is a problem that can be corrected with time and effort - and may have partially been fixed already by removing the position of Warchief that aggregated all power into one position (a real problem when people like Garrosh or Sylvanas found their way into said position). The Horde is deeply flawed, but can be redeemed - the Old Gods cannot be redeemed in any way.

I totally hope you are right and this nonsensical faction war plot line will end with this expansion for good. I am not even playing for that long but being in BFA felt like being stuck in a time loop with seeing the Horde make the exact same mistakes again that they did in MoP and again it is up to the Alliance to help them against their own leaders. It felt like the Horde learned NOTHING from Garrosh and again they get to just walk away and go on like nothing happened, while the Alliance has a smoldering crater more.

It is okay if this happens once. You can be tricked by a cunning leader to commit horrific acts. But if it happens a second time, you are a just as guilty as your leader and nothing of that is reflected in BFA, because the two-faction system makes it impossible for one side to actually loose substantially. Yet it feels like the Alliance has lost this war and the Horde just shrugs it off. Again.

So one of two things have to happen: Either we do not have any more storyline where the Horde (or Alliance for that matter) is the big bad, because these storylines cannot by sheer reason of gameplay lead to a satisfying conclusion, or we do have one final clash where one side is actually destroyed and the survivors get subjugated into the winning faction (much like the Sylvanas Loyalists are treated now, just that it needs a bit more gameplay changes).

Personally I think the peace treaty opens a ton of options for new narratives to be explored and I hope the writers see this too instead of already planning how to make the factions clash again in 10.0...

[Aucald]

You definately have a point here. However I would point out that a lot of what runs around on Azeroth as intelligent life at this moment is actually in part a creation of the Old Gods and I think it can be argued that several races owe their "humanity" (for lack of a better term) to them. Thanks to the Curse of Flesh what was unfeeling Mechagnomes, Earthen and Vrykul became Gnomes, Dwarfs and Humans with a rich asortment of feelings. Il'gynoth is in this regard not wrong that the Old Gods are our true creators. So the question is if this has any bearing on what N'zoth plans. As I said above he seems to be quite supportive considering we are killing his minions on every turn, too supportive considering he SHOULD want us to fail. I think his goal is more complex then just bringing about Ny'alotha and the Black Empire. I am probably wrong and we will likely not see any deeper plot, but I like the idea.

The Titans pretty much passed judgment on the Titanforged life effected by the Curse of Flesh and made mortal, deeming them "worthy of genesis." I think this judgment stands up to the test as well, as it's been the mortal races who led the conflict against the Old Gods and defeated them time and time again, not to mention ending the primary threat of the Legion led by a wayward Titan itself. The Old Gods played a part in mortal life, that is sure; but it's only one factor of many and not the sole creator - the Curse of Flesh freed many of the Titanforged, but then they made the choice to oppose their erstwhile benefactors because they saw them for the evil that they were. That's the greatest form of good in the Miltonian sense.

I totally hope you are right and this nonsensical faction war plot line will end with this expansion for good. I am not even playing for that long but being in BFA felt like being stuck in a time loop with seeing the Horde make the exact same mistakes again that they did in MoP and again it is up to the Alliance to help them against their own leaders. It felt like the Horde learned NOTHING from Garrosh and again they get to just walk away and go on like nothing happened, while the Alliance has a smoldering crater more.

It is okay if this happens once. You can be tricked by a cunning leader to commit horrific acts. But if it happens a second time, you are a just as guilty as your leader and nothing of that is reflected in BFA, because the two-faction system makes it impossible for one side to actually loose substantially. Yet it feels like the Alliance has lost this war and the Horde just shrugs it off. Again.

So one of two things have to happen: Either we do not have any more storyline where the Horde (or Alliance for that matter) is the big bad, because these storylines cannot by sheer reason of gameplay lead to a satisfying conclusion, or we do have one final clash where one side is actually destroyed and the survivors get subjugated into the winning faction (much like the Sylvanas Loyalists are treated now, just that it needs a bit more gameplay changes).

Personally I think the peace treaty opens a ton of options for new narratives to be explored and I hope the writers see this too instead of already planning how to make the factions clash again in 10.0...

The Horde is complicit in a number of atrocities, I don't think there's any real denying of that. While the lion's share of blame might go to Garrosh or Sylvanas it's still true that the Horde followed those leaders in doing things they knew were wrong, allowing old hatred and bitter grievances to guide their hands. This isn't a motif that's bound to just BfA or even MoP, either; it's repeated over and over since their days on Draenor-that-was - allowing powerful leaders to guide them unwittingly down a path of atrocity and monstrosity. Even the good Warchiefs, like Thrall, have highlighted this tendency; such as his woefully inept plan to institute a kind of racial austerity by settling in resource-poor Durotar as punishment for the Horde's deeds in the First and Second War (not to mention the destruction of their world). Such a plan went largely unopposed in the Horde, despite it being founded on the notion of punishing their own children for the sins of their fathers, as it were.

It's my hope as well that the Horde is finally making steps to truly change its ways and become true protectors of Azeroth, as opposed to conquerors and despoilers. I can't say if the faction wars are over for good, as old hatred still simmer between the two major factions for very understandable reasons. There's peace for now, at least; we'll have to see how long it lasts.

[Polarthief]

- Committed literal genocide and drove the night elves to the brink of extinction

Sylvanas.

- Burned down Towns and Villages in Kul Tiras

Dunno who did those since Horde doesn't have a story there and I didn't bother with the Alliance story.

- Killed ten thousands in the regular war fights

Are you implying the Alliance didn't do this too?

- Lured the alliance fleet in the middle of the ocean into a trap, killing most of the soldiers

Weren't the Horde just trying to get away from the Alliance chasing them? It's almost like when you chase your enemies, you may end up getting fucked, so I'm gonna lump this in with the "Alliance does shit like this too" point above.

- Defiled and burned down Forests

See point 2 I believe? I don't remember this at all.

- Destroyed a capital of the alliance

Oh so we're going to double-up on points now? See point 1. This was Sylvanas and is the same point.

- blighted Lordaron Saddam Hussain Style

100% Sylvanas.

- Raised the dead either as mindless puppets or as Slaves to fight the living

Definitely Sylvanas as no other Horde leader/member raises dead.

- Set fire to stormwind, however I think no casualty numbers are ever mentioned

Okay this one is kinda fair.

So in the end, you have Sylvanas as the major villain, not the Horde. Consider that the majority of Horde players and NPCs also sided with Saurfang, so if anything, lumping "The Horde" with Sylvanas is pretty shitty.

As for Sylvanas vs N'Zoth, it's both. Sylvanas for the first half-ish, N'Zoth for the second half-ish. Regardless, the story was all over the place and downright terrible.

[omeomorfismo]

Okay this one is kinda fair.

So in the end, you have Sylvanas as the major villain, not the Horde. Consider that the majority of Horde players and NPCs also sided with Saurfang, so if anything, lumping "The Horde" with Sylvanas is pretty shitty.

As for Sylvanas vs N'Zoth, it's both. Sylvanas for the first half-ish, N'Zoth for the second half-ish. Regardless, the story was all over the place and downright terrible.

bullshit, in game, majority of horde npcs sided with sylvanas and loyalists, only the leaders and maybe the taurens sided with saurfang.
for the player we cant know until blizzard decide to show us the results. for example i only know a bunch of my guildmates that sided with him only for the cloak toy

[Accendor]

More importantly, Saufang and Thrall made it clear the Horde was responsible for all the other faction wars. SaurfanSo you have to add those in. And since the Alliance never did anything wrong, the Horde is clearly the evil faction and any players who had hopes of faction pride need to either faction change or quit.

That is actually an interesting factor, because also as alliance you do not feel faction pride, since you are a bully victim that can not stand up for itself and gets pushed around all the time. Nothing to be proud of here.

[Martymark]

The enemy Blizzard wanted the Alliance to hate in BFA was The Horde.
The enemy Blizzard wanted the Horde to hate in BFA was The Horde.

They succeeded, and I cancelled my 15 year account.

[Accendor]

Even if I agreed with your position, I don't really see how the Horde is more dangerous than N'Zoth. The Horde exterminating the Alliance is still going to leave a bevy of life on Azeroth - all the Horde races, neutral races, animal and plant life, etc. etc. N'Zoth is going to destroy *all* of Azeroth's organic life, corrupting and warping every trace of the world into its Black Empire, leaving the only things "alive" on Azeroth the multi-eyed horrors and twisted servants of Ny'alotha. This goes above and beyond targeted destruction of a faction, beyond even genocide; it would be death and destruction on a scale the Horde itself is incapable of.

The Horde is also not a monolith - while it has done horrible things it has also fought to protect Azeroth; just as it did in the Third War against the Legion. They have an issue with allowing bad leaders to sway them into committing horrid acts on a grand scale, that can't be denied; but it is a problem that can be corrected with time and effort - and may have partially been fixed already by removing the position of Warchief that aggregated all power into one position (a real problem when people like Garrosh or Sylvanas found their way into said position). The Horde is deeply flawed, but can be redeemed - the Old Gods cannot be redeemed in any way.

To be fair, I am pretty sure that as a member of the alliance I have a much bigger chance of survival in a world ruled by N'zoth as one of his servants than I have in a world ruled by the horde.
Sure, most likely I would die in both worlds, but if I had to chose, I know which one I would take.

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Sylvanas.



Dunno who did those since Horde doesn't have a story there and I didn't bother with the Alliance story.



Are you implying the Alliance didn't do this too?



Weren't the Horde just trying to get away from the Alliance chasing them? It's almost like when you chase your enemies, you may end up getting fucked, so I'm gonna lump this in with the "Alliance does shit like this too" point above.



See point 2 I believe? I don't remember this at all.



Oh so we're going to double-up on points now? See point 1. This was Sylvanas and is the same point.



100% Sylvanas.



Definitely Sylvanas as no other Horde leader/member raises dead.



Okay this one is kinda fair.

So in the end, you have Sylvanas as the major villain, not the Horde. Consider that the majority of Horde players and NPCs also sided with Saurfang, so if anything, lumping "The Horde" with Sylvanas is pretty shitty.

As for Sylvanas vs N'Zoth, it's both. Sylvanas for the first half-ish, N'Zoth for the second half-ish. Regardless, the story was all over the place and downright terrible.

No, sorry, you are mostly wrong about all of this. It was the Horde, not Sylvanas. This was not a single persons work, it was the horde.
Which is why the most of the horde (yes, the big majority) still sided with the to the end. There were very, very few "traitors", this is what is mentioned in every cinematic up to the end and in every questline related to it. Its simply not true.

[Zyky]

- Burned down Towns and Villages in Kul Tiras

One village, not plural. Even the NPCs were confused about this for months into the launch of the game, blaming the Quillboar in NPC text. Blizzard threw this in as a shoehole because they had no basis to hold a faction war, which is why Stormsong's story on Alliance side is disconnected and makes little sense as a whole.

- Killed ten thousands in the regular war fights

Welcome to war??? Not sure what you expected with this kind of comment, but the Alliance also killed tens of thousands.

- Committed literal genocide and drove the night elves to the brink of extinction
- Defiled and burned down Forests
- Destroyed a capital of the alliance

These are all the same point. You tried to make it 3, but it's only a singular point.

- Set fire to stormwind, however I think no casualty numbers are ever mentioned

This was solely on Zul, who was not a member of the Horde and never was.

[Feanoro]

The Horde is too foolish to be interesting, just a mindless mass of bodies that will attack anything their Warchief tells them to as long as they shout "For the Horde" loud enough.

Exactly as designed by Kil'Jaeden and demanded by the fans. Witness the outrage over losing the Warchief position.

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Sounds cool on paper but devs side would mean reshape graphically all Azeroth to match N’zoth Empire, way too much work for a “phase” of the game that will probably last two years.

Do you mean reshaping the classic world ala Cata? I'd suggest instead they copy paste the classic world to another continent server like any expansion, and then do the editing. Have the players able to portal between "the past" (classic world) and Azeroth Goth Edition. Later on, in WoW: The Search for More Money, players could visit that dark and terrible time when the Black Empire arose again but was defeated by the ragtag resistance.

[Swnem]

Remember when expansions had one big bad you would work up to in an epic showdown? Good times.

These bait and switch ones just aren't doing it for me.