Valeera Sanguinar vs. Vereesa Windrunner

[gurutikka]

One looks like a legit Horde soldier, other looks like Alliance. Irony is that neither of them are on any faction

[Alanar]

Thats basically Veressa tbh.

Haha ye true

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Judging by what that pregnancy resulted in I'm not sure I'd call it a peak.

Actually, looking for that image made me find her actual peak (i.e. the best part of her plot in War Crimes).

Ye them kids are realy ugly

[Ardenaso]

That's cold. I don't get the Vereesa indifference. Damn developers and writers just made her a human male elf trophy wife. Maybe she'll get some development when Sylvanas and Alleria both die.

Don't all three sisters have a human male mate?

I wonder if they make something different though like human female and male elf? Modera and Aethas?

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Yet no one discusses what exactly she has done or can do well. I wonder why.

I played OutsiderXE's Day of the Dragon (very good custom campaign btw!) and I don't even remember what she did there.

[Kyphael]

Don't all three sisters have a human male mate?

I wonder if they make something different though like human female and male elf? Modera and Aethas?

They do, but Vereesa is the only one who has received no character development of her own and existed solely as a wife to a male character. Sylvanas and Alleria are fully developed characters in their own right, actually more so than their male human husbands.

[Ardenaso]

Makes me sick to see that witch wielding Thori'dal.

Next we'll probably have Auric Sunchaser proudly dual wielding Quel'delar and Felo'melorn

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One looks like a legit Horde soldier, other looks like Alliance. Irony is that neither of them are on any faction

Silver Covenant is sponsored by the Alliance though, and she fought for the Alliance in MoP, joining Varian and Jaina, as well as slaughtering her Blood Elf cousins for her quest for human dixxx

And she also almost shot at Rommath in Suramar

[elbleuet]

So much hatred toward Vereesa just because she has blue eyes and joined the good faction.

Anyways both Vereesa and Valeera are Alliance.

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They do, but Vereesa is the only one who has received no character development of her own and existed solely as a wife to a male character. Sylvanas and Alleria are fully developed characters in their own right, actually more so than their male human husbands.

Vereesa went to do some stuff to Zul'Aman, Theramore, Suramar, Dalaran during the purge, Orgrimmar twice and Argus without Rhonin I guess.

[derpkitteh]

Don't all three sisters have a human male mate?

I wonder if they make something different though like human female and male elf? Modera and Aethas?

modera seems to have a thing for aethas, they maybe had a fling while he was on the council.

but he's screwing some nightborne woman now. despite his weak personality, he seems to be a bit of a ladies man.

as for this though, we've never really even seen what vareesa can do. she doesn't have a special artifact bow like sylv and alleria had, she's always just kinda existed. the intro to the isle of thunder is the most she's ever done. she's the youngest sister, but that doesn't say anything about her actual age. she does however have quite a few years on valeera.

valeera though, valeera has shown much more combat capability, so i'd say valeera takes it.

[Cyram]

I'll take Valeera Sanguinar over the Khloe of the Windrunner Sisters. Any day. Any time.

[Grazrug]

Vereesa is an evil war criminal and human arm candy. Valeera is her own Chad character and kicks booty. Also shes bloodelf. Is obvuous that she wins this by default.

[BaumanKing]

They do, but Vereesa is the only one who has received no character development of her own and existed solely as a wife to a male character. Sylvanas and Alleria are fully developed characters in their own right, actually more so than their male human husbands.

Not really. In books Turalyon is the only Alliance character, who has an actual development and a character arc. He is the main character bassically, because Khadgar is there just to explain stuff, and Alleria is some elven chick with anger issues (she even disappears from plot in the second half of Tides of Darkness). But now with all that cosmic stuff I think that they're both equally developed and complement each other greatly.

Anyway, I really don't understand why people hate Vereesa so much. Yes, she is a weak person and a hypocrite, but that's her shtick as a character. Not every Windrunner should be a badass.

[therealstegblob]

post

Rozz is a shit mod and gave me an infraction for no reason, so very sadly I was banned from this wonderful forum for a bit but I did want to come back here really quick and say this: While I could easily dissect your entire post and go on a long, drawn out diatribe about why you're wrong, I'm just going to say that you're wrong about everything you wrote on the sole single fact that Rhonin simply isn't a Mary Sue or Knaak's self-insert, rendering everything you said pointless and not worth picking apart. That's all.

Infracted.

[Verdugo]

on the sole single fact that Rhonin simply isn't a Mary Sue or Knaak's self-insert

Dude Rhonin is one of the best known self inserts in warcraft.

[Specialka]

Dude Rhonin is one of the best known self inserts in warcraft.

What is a self inert?

[therealstegblob]

Dude Rhonin is one of the best known self inserts in warcraft.

No, he isn't. Because he's not.

But nice try.

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What is a self inert?

When an author vicariously projects themselves into their own writing, usually as the main (or one of the main) characters. People don't like Knaak because he's a mediocre writer, and therefore they feel that Rhonin (one of his original characters) is therefore a self-insert. Even though he isn't and trying to argue that he is is very, very stupid. People can never tell you why Rhonin is a self-insert, only that he must be because he's one of the characters Knaak created.

[Specialka]

No, he isn't. Because he's not.

But nice try.

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When an author vicariously projects themselves into their own writing, usually as the main (or one of the main) characters. People don't like Knaak because he's a mediocre writer, and therefore they feel that Rhonin (one of his original characters) is therefore a self-insert. Even though he isn't and trying to argue that he is is very, very stupid. People can never tell you why Rhonin is a self-insert, only that he must be because he's one of the characters Knaak created.

Well, ok.

So can someone tell why Rhonin is a self insert? Or a mary sue for that matters?

[The Butt Witch]

Why do humans in fantasy stories, always end up with an elf? Are elves supposed to be trophy wives for the main characters or something?

[Specialka]

Why do humans in fantasy stories, always end up with an elf? Are elves supposed to be trophy wives for the main characters or something?

Because elves males are boring while human are dashing, yet fading (they usually live shorter lives) badass.

[Aucald]

"Self-insert," like the claim of "Mary Sue," has a tendency to be used as a catch-all type admonishment anymore - as opposed to a technical term that means a specific thing. I don't think Rhonin is explicitly a self-insert or a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, though; when what he actually is would be summed up as just a badly made and/or written character. I can certainly see where the argument comes from, and if I recall Rhonin is actually based on a D&D character Knaak once had or something along those lines. A few two many degrees of abstraction to be a true self-insert, though still written with a sense of wish fulfillment that permeates the character's various portrayals.

[Mehrunes]

Rozz is a shit mod and gave me an infraction for no reason, so very sadly I was banned from this wonderful forum for a bit but I did want to come back here really quick and say this: While I could easily dissect your entire post and go on a long, drawn out diatribe about why you're wrong, I'm just going to say that you're wrong about everything you wrote on the sole single fact that Rhonin simply isn't a Mary Sue or Knaak's self-insert, rendering everything you said pointless and not worth picking apart. That's all.

Infracted.

Except I wasn't actually arguing that Rhonin is or isn't Knaak's self-insert. Which is self evident from my post if you actually bothered to read it. So nothing is rendered anything in my post. What is rendering pointless and "not worth picking apart" consequently, is your reply as it's built upon your fantasies. What I was arguing was that your counterarguments against the notion of him being a self-insert, particularly @Wyrt's are flat out wrong.

So let's be real, that is the reason why you deemed my reply "not worth picking apart" and you put on a farcical show to deflect from that. Because, as I already pointed out, one of your main arguments against the notion ran contrary to the very origin of the term Mary Sue. Another was you engaging in some double standard about what constitutes an objective truth. The former also included you omitting a key part of Wyrt's claim you were arguing against.

The very notion you could go on a long, drawn diatribe about how me pointing those rather obvious flaws in your claims are somehow wrong is rather ridiculous. So the next time you want to make things up in order to validate your falsehoods, don't overdo it. If you make things less obvious maybe you'll actually manage to fool someone.

That's indeed all.

[Aresk]

I have to give this to Vereesa Windrunner, simply because Blizzard seems obsessed with the Windrunner family, and Vereesa is destined to become some type of mutant elf with powers beyond any other person like her. I think Valeera could take her in a straight-out fight right now, but it'll end with Vereesa's transformation into something else that then makes her one of the most powerful characters in the lore, rivaling the very beings that created her in the first place.