Iowa Caucus 2020 - MegaThread

[Skroe]

More than the incompetence of it, Im bafflled states do caucuses. Theyve got to be the least democratic element of the whole thing

No one in national parties like them but states won’t be told what to do. It’s totally on them. Really it’s the same thing as having an open primary, semi open or a closed primary. It is at the discretion of the state party.

The only way the DNC can compel Iowa to change is to basically get all the other state Democratic Parties to gang up on it and threaten sanctions (such as docking delegate numbers) if they break the consensus. This is actually why Iowa and Hew Hampshire are back in February after drifting closer and closer to January 1st for years and other stares threatening to leapfrog both of them. The DNC since 2016 stepped in to bring about some schedule sanity.

Did fundamentally people have to choose: what do they want, a DNC that can mandate necessary changes unilaterally or a weak DNC that can’t control the process and has to accept an outcome that might go against the party’s national chances. It can’t be both.

[Mihalik]

It's not just Trumpworld. In Bernie Land the demonisation of the DNC is mainly just a form of excuse so that any time Bernie doesn't win it can be painted as illegitimate.

Bro. Are you seriously going to try to claim that the 2016 primary wasn't intentionally stacked in favor in HRC and that the DNC didn't throw everything including the kitchen sink at making Hillary happen, bending rules left and right, funneling resources, assigning super delegates before a single primary vote being cast? Like for real?

[Elegiac]

Bro. Are you seriously going to try to claim that the 2016 primary wasn't intentionally stacked in favor in HRC and that the DNC didn't throw everything including the kitchen sink at making Hillary happen, bending rules left and right, funneling resources, assigning super delegates before a single primary vote being cast? Like for real?

Yes.

I remember it. I was there.

The "rigging" was, is, and will always continue to be a myth designed to soothe a bruised political ego.

[Skroe]

It's not just Trumpworld. In Bernie Land the demonisation of the DNC is mainly just a form of excuse so that any time Bernie doesn't win it can be painted as illegitimate.

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On the bright side you'll always have the fun story of "my sister literally gave birth more quickly than Iowa counted its caucus results".

And to be entirely fair, neither did I to start with; but what soured me on him was the clear demonstration that he's little more than a professional resume padder and seems to desire the acquisition of political office for its own sake rather than having an agenda he wants to see implemented.

It's pretty classic twink behavior, really. Bottom entitlement is real.

Personally I kind of loved the political cynicism of him doing his premature victory speech last night and having the five black supporters he has in a row behind him.

Politicians are always politicians. Never trust them. Never believe in them. Always use them, then dispose of them. Support... sure. But be ready to cut them loose when they’ve outlived their usefulness.

[Mihalik]

Yes.

I remember it. I was there.

The "rigging" was, is, and will always continue to be a myth designed to soothe a bruised political ego.

Cool. And now...I'm going to call you a liar.

I used to think you were like one of the handful of sane people here. Holy fuck I was wrong.

[Flarelaine]

It's not just Trumpworld. In Bernie Land the demonisation of the DNC is mainly just a form of excuse so that any time Bernie doesn't win it can be painted as illegitimate.

Yeah, the DNC is being turned into the conventional perennial scapegoat Jews used to be (and still are for some). Hilarious, really.

[Elegiac]

Did fundamentally people have to choose: what do they want, a DNC that can mandate necessary changes unilaterally or a weak DNC that can’t control the process and has to accept an outcome that might go against the party’s national chances. It can’t be both.

I feel like there's a middle ground to be struck here, but yes.

Clarity in how the process is conducted is absolutely necessary to the democratic process and it is in everyone's best interests for the DNC to have the ability to enforce rules that everyone agrees upon.

[Adam Jensen]

Lol. None of these cartoons can beat Trump, but Sanders is the safest to attempt to. People won't vote for a communist but he can go down much more honorably than the other two who would just crash and burn.

He's not a fucking communist. Jesus fucking christ what is so goddamned hard about this? He's center left in literally every nation except the US.

Bernie wants to raise the minimum wage, make college more affordable, make drugs and healthcare more affordable through universal healthcare, raise progressive taxes on the richest to ensure they pay their fair share, and legalize weed.

Most of which is fairly common in first world developed nations.

Getting so sick of this bullshit "cOmMuNiSm" screech being hurled at anyone left of Ronald Fucking Reagan.

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Do you agree with controlled immigration and having 1st and 2nd amendments OR do you want preferred pronouns, white skin tax (aka reparations) and no borders?

It's really as simple as that.

The fuck sort of 4chan bullshit is this?

[Elegiac]

Cool. And now...I'm going to call you a liar.

I used to think you were like one of the handful of sane people here. Holy fuck I was wrong.

Because I don't think the 2016 primary was rigged despite having been an active participant?

That's the litmus test for sanity, now? Lol.

[Mihalik]

Because I don't think the 2016 primary was rigged despite having been an active participant?

That's the litmus test for sanity, now? Lol.

Pretty much. The degree of denial required for thinking that the party didn't lean in hard to influence the outcome, and that it wasn't a clean run is CRAY-ZEE.

[Skroe]

Bro. Are you seriously going to try to claim that the 2016 primary wasn't intentionally stacked in favor in HRC and that the DNC didn't throw everything including the kitchen sink at making Hillary happen, bending rules left and right, funneling resources, assigning super delegates before a single primary vote being cast? Like for real?

There was no rigging in 2016. Sanders is walking down the same probable path in 2020 he walked down in 2016. It doesn’t matter if he. Narrowly wins or loses California, Michigan, Montana or wherever else. His problem is that he lost big in Texas and in Florida and in delegate rich places like Georgia and Kentucky.

Once again. If there are are two candidates, Mike and Larry, and Mike wins over Larry in California. H 54 to 46, they get almost the same number of delegates. A handful of difference. Against the 1900ish required to win, a rounding error. However when Larry bears Mike in Texas 67 to 33, Larry opens up a very large delegate gap that Mikes modest California win doesn’t really close.

That is what happened in 2016 and is looking to happen in 2020. Take Sanders’ surprise Michigan primary win in 2016. He beat Hillary so narrowly they both left there with nearly the same number of delegates. Hillary didn’t care because she took home far more in Texas, California and Virginia.

This is why in 2016 I declared Bernie Toast after Super Tuesday. This year, you’ll be able to assess his chances after March 10th (the elections the week after Super Tuesday, March 3rd).

It would be nice if actual democrats read their damn rule book and didn’t rely on a conservative to tell them how their own game is played.

[JohnBrown1917]

Only in America would they use a sketchy/shitty app to hold an election.

[Skroe]

Pretty much. The degree of denial required for thinking that the party didn't lean in hard to influence the outcome, and that it wasn't a clean run is CRAY-ZEE.

Hillary beat Sanders before superdelegates. Sanders lost because he couldn’t win gap opening victories against Hillary like Obama did in 2008. He could only muster Marginal wins and losses to large losses in delegate rich states.

This year, super delegates will almost certainly NOT get a chance to vote that matters to new Democratic rules. But Bernie will probably lose the nomination to the same reason. He needs win big in places that, right now, he is looking to lose big or win narrowly.

Think if it like this. All the candidates are cups with a line that says 1900 (exact number escapes me). Every stare is 50 different cups with different colored beads in it per state. Each bead represents 1 delegate. When you’re diving the huge number of red beads of Texas 63-37 in Biden’s favor (as an example), how is Bernie supposed to win when he can only claim by comparison almost the exact number of green beads from California as his competitors and a small handful of blue beads by comparison from North Dakota. He needs a big state that gives him a lot of beads and gives Biden few beads to cancel out Texas.

I will literally buy beads and cups and illustrate this if it is what it takes to get the point across. Not joking.

[Sorshen]

The DNC apologism is almost as funny as trumpism. See what I did here?

[Elegiac]

The DNC apologism is almost as funny as trumpism. See what I did here?

There’s a difference between apologism and calling out blatantly false attacks, comrade.

All I Want for Saturnalia is a Functional Democracy.

[Mihalik]

sip

sip

Right. Uhu.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/25/u...ks-emails.html
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ks-2016-215774

With other words...EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS APOLOGETICS HORSESHIT. Ya'll must have been living on another planet between 2015-2017 or suffering from amnesia or something.

[Orbitus]

Only in America would they use a sketchy/shitty app to hold an election.

Well, first off, they used an archaic version of selecting a candidate. But the app didn't help.

[Fugus]

@cubby @Edge-

To go with my point of the changes they made after the 2018 election to keep need blood with Bernie views anymore at:
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...508-story.html

Now, to further it with stuff they are starting to think about doing again:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...kGuKMQcXU_VuKs


As I have said before,
If they try and screw Sanders instead of having a fair election, I withhold my vote for their candidate and write who I want in.
If they try and screw Warren instead of having a fair election, I withhold my vote for their candidate and write who I want in.
As much as I dislike him, if they try and screw Biden of all people instead of having a fair election, I withhold my vote for their candidate and write who I want in.

The primary is for the VOTERS to choose the candidate, not for them to try and fucking herd us like cattle to the candidate that they want us to have with the crap like the 2 links I used above.

And don't give me the whole "They aren't Democrats" if the Democrats voters choose them over the establishments desires with them being honest and genuine, then they are more Democrats than the Democrats own leadership at that point.

[Elegiac]

Right. Uhu.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/25/u...ks-emails.html
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ks-2016-215774

With other words...EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS APOLOGETICS HORSESHIT.

What have either of those things to do with the fact the numbers weren’t there for Bernie regardless of superdelegates.

[zenkai]

Well the DNC certainly fucked up this kick off, pretty incompetent of them to not be able to count votes.