Darkwind #53rd pyrewood Loot rules - Feedback welcome

[DarkwindLootRules]

Introduction

This system is here to push gear progression and allow the flexibility of prioritizing keyclasses in our raids. You might not always agree with how or why things are done the way they are, rest assure however that the common goal the guild have is always put first. Everyone will get the gear they want/need, however it's important to consider our raids as team-efforts and all gearing during raids come with sacrifices and compromises.

The following system is a multi-factor system, where several factors are considered before handing out gear. The system is build around focusing on what classes/specs benefit most from items, along with factoring in your personal contribution and performance in the guild as well

Also do note that this system will not go live until the first day we enter BWL. The post here will also be updated with goody-stuff over the next week or so, as we do the last prepares for new raid content

The EPGP system explained

EP stands for effort points, you'll get points for contributing to the guild, either through hourly attendance, along with bonuses from doing well on raids and coming prepared. You'll earn a total of 5 EP an hour, you might also gain EP from coming prepared, using Elixirs and potions. You will also get 1 EP extra, each hour, for having the Raider Rank (See section about the Raider Rank)

GP stands for gear points, whenever you receive gear, you get gear points. Every item is worth a certain amount of GP, the better the item the higher the price for the item. Since your PR (will be explained under here) is based on dividing your EP and GP, taking gear you don't need will greatly diminish the amount of gear you receive

PR stands for your priority rating, this is calculated by the addon itself, basically the more EP you have and the less GP you have, the higher your PR. PR is one of the determined factors that the loot council will use to determine who should get the loot, it's a way for us to track how much you contribute to the guild, how you fare on raids and also how much loot you've previously gained

Once a raid, during progression raids, a log will be taken over who's using Elixirs and who's slacking. This log will be done at random interval and will not be announced before taken. Should you be in doubt about what elixir benefits your class/spec, please contact one of the officers. This log is worth 2 EP points and can only be gained once on each progression raid

A contribution list will be posted on the forum at one point, containing other ways to earn EPs. Contributions are, among other things, helping out with farming stuff for the guild, to be used during raids. Contributions might also be smaller guild events, happening later on, where we focus on "backflagging" new recruits to Onyxia/MC/BWL. Contribution EP points will have a cap and there will be other rewards, beside gaining EP, for contributing a lot to the guild, it's goals and progression

All EP and GP will be wiped after each new raid-dungeon content release, upon us reaching AQ40 and Naxx.

The Loot Council

The EPGP system itself works as one of the factors, another is the decision taken behind the council. The council has a list that will recommend who should get certain loot, based on beneficial factors for certain classes/specs. Once they've determined the best class/spec to give said item to, they'll look at the PR of the people wanting the item

Priority for certain classes, with emphasize on the best use will weight higher than EPGP. This means that while the EPGP system might show a clear winner for any item, the loot council ultimately have the power to bypass this and go with another decision.

Raider Rank Introduced

We have decided to introduce a Raider Rank too. The way this raider rank is gained is a tad special

On the site: Our Ranking, you can find an overview of our average performance, sorted by players. Once a month, between the 1st to the 10th, officers will check this page and update the ranks based on the numbers there. This score is based on your current i-level (gear level), compared to other players having the same level of gear and the same class/spec. By bracket means you're competing against players from guilds that are clearing with the same effort and speed

You'll always compete against your own class, with the same gear level, therefore it doesn't matter how good your gear is, nor what class you are. Everyone has an equal chance, except for tanks, I'll get to that. Now the score is based on many factors, not only healing or dps, while both healing and dps does weight into the score, things like managing aggro, taking damage, curing, activity timer, potion usage, among other things all play an important factor in your total score. Logically being dead hurts your score quite a lot too

The total amount of score needed to get promoted to raider rank is 50% score or higher. This is as estimate of your total score of the last month. This is subject to change and the score might be increased when we venture further into BWL. Also, since we're going with a historical score, your previous raids will affect your overall performance score too, however the older the raids the less effect they have on your score. This means if you have a bad raid too, your historical score will be less affected, we can all have a bad raid

For tanks, gaining the raider rank is different. Tanks get a high score by tanking stuff and since not all tanks will be tanking equally, it's impossible for all tanks to score high. Instead there's a requirement to tanking and that requirement is maintaining a high raid attendance. All tanks are required to have above 80% raid-attendance during a 30 days period, otherwise they'll be demoted to member AND they'll also be replaced with a tank that can manage to keep above 80% RA. Tanks have privileges and are the backbone of our raids, privileges come at a price. Should any tank need to leave for vacation, exceptions will be made of course.

So what benefits does a raider rank come with? Simply, all players with raider rank receive 1 more EP each hour. Raider ranks also get priority for joining progression raids

Alts and older raids

More to come on alts, we're currently working on a way to allow alts to get loot on raids. What we can tell you so far is that alts will have a separate EPGP pool (this is by intention from the addon itself), so if you join a raid with your alt, you cannot get EPGP on your main during that raid. This also means that if you join older raids, on your main, you'll have more EP to spend on progression raids, so signing up and joining MC/Onyxia on an alt, instead of playing your main will mean you get less gear on your main overall

Older raids, in our case Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair, will have their GP costs reduced. This means you'll get stuff cheaper in those zones, how much cheaper is not determined yet

[Terarus]

Yeah a /roll makes it a hell of a lot easier. Not looking to have a part time job.

[George Costanza]

General discussion is for retail not classic.

[arkanon]

Did you just post a guild only post to the general forums?

Or are you trying to advertise your silly website?

[FreeHongKong]

I didn’t even read because gold fish syndrome.

Too long too boring

[Devilyaki]

Kill a boss take the next 40 min to had out the loot lol

[StayTuned]

Dkp
Let people bid or roll
Get over it, you don't need to introduce University level of complexity for loot distribution. That's so tryhard it hurts

[Kersey]

Introduction

allow the flexibility of prioritizing keyclasses in our raids. You might not always agree

The EPGP system explained

All EP and GP will be wiped after each new raid-dungeon content release, upon us reaching AQ40 and Naxx.

The Loot Council
the loot council ultimately have the power to bypass this

Raider Rank Introduced
Raider ranks also get priority

Alts and older raids
we're currently working on a way to allow alts to get loot on raids.

This just sounds like Loot Council with more steps.

[Kaneiac]

Imagine needing to optimize loot in classic

[archelos91]

Sounds like a convoluted way of ending up with "Sorry loot council decided x (officer, gm's gf, bestie) gets it."

I expect lots of drama will happen if someone has a really high PR and gets looked over, maybe take out loot council and if you care about certain classes rolling for certain items have a pre-prepared spreadsheet of items and maybe a modifier to PR depending on class? (something that is unbiased) or only allow certain classes to "want" the item unless all of that class/role have it.

[ONCHEhap]

I'm not sure if the people saying this is too long or too complicated never had to handle loot in their lives,or suffer from traumatic brain damage.

It's essentially just an EP/GP system with a loot council that can veto items.Not a bad system really,it's kinda like a loot council system with extra steps,but point systems do make the less engaged members of your team happier overall,even when it doesn't amount to much.On top of that,it's definitely more fair than DKP,given that DKP benefits the individual a lot more than it benefits the team.

And just like a LC,it requires an unbiased council,else...well you know how it goes


Not bad from where I'm standing,not perfect either but it's definitely a solid system

[arkanon]

I'm not sure if the people saying this is too long or too complicated never had to handle loot in their lives,or suffer from traumatic brain damage.

It's essentially just an EP/GP system with a loot council that can veto items.Not a bad system really,it's kinda like a loot council system with extra steps,but point systems do make the less engaged members of your team happier overall,even when it doesn't amount to much.On top of that,it's definitely more fair than DKP,given that DKP benefits the individual a lot more than it benefits the team.

And just like a LC,it requires an unbiased council,else...well you know how it goes


Not bad from where I'm standing,not perfect either but it's definitely a solid system

What are you talking about? If you believe a loot council can be completely unbiased, you must think communism is a FANTASTIC system.

[ONCHEhap]

What are you talking about? If you believe a loot council can be completely unbiased, you must think communism is a FANTASTIC system.

[arkanon]

You say it's not a bad system, but at the same time say it requires people to be completely j biased for it to work. People are not unbiased. It won't work.

[ellieg]

You say it's not a bad system, but at the same time say it requires people to be completely j biased for it to work. People are not unbiased. It won't work.

Works really well for my guild. Something like 6 ppl on the council. 1 raider gets invited each week to view and also vote. Everything is transparent. Raid attendance, consumables, activity in guild, and a few other categories are whats being measured. If it's too even, they have the 2 or so ppl that are "even", just roll for it. Zero drama abt it so far.

[Hinastorm]

Uhg.

Personally i'd prefer just a roll, but with a weight for attendance. 100% rolls 1-100, 75% rolls 1-75.

Attendance should matter. Maybe some exceptions for things like BRE.

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Works really well for my guild. Something like 6 ppl on the council. 1 raider gets invited each week to view and also vote. Everything is transparent. Raid attendance, consumables, activity in guild, and a few other categories are whats being measured. If it's too even, they have the 2 or so ppl that are "even", just roll for it. Zero drama abt it so far.

I was super wary of loot council at first, but after a few initial concerns, i've been content with it over the last few months. I'd still prefer an attendance weighted roll though.

[ellieg]

Uhg.

Personally i'd prefer just a roll, but with a weight for attendance. 100% rolls 1-100, 75% rolls 1-75.

Attendance should matter. Maybe some exceptions for things like BRE.

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I was super wary of loot council at first, but after a few initial concerns, i've been content with it over the last few months. I'd still prefer an attendance weighted roll though.

I can understand that. I've been in all types guilds and as long as loot council is transparent, it's been the best for me. Dkp lead to conspiring and passing on upgrades jist to get first in line for 1 epic.

We use rc loot council and you push a button when we distribute loot. You select BiS, main spec, offspec/ pvp, pass, and if your class actually cares abt tier you select 3 / 5 / or 8 pc.

[Hinastorm]

I can understand that. I've been in all types guilds and as long as loot council is transparent, it's been the best for me. Dkp lead to conspiring and passing on upgrades jist to get first in line for 1 epic.

We use rc loot council and you push a button when we distribute loot. You select BiS, main spec, offspec/ pvp, pass, and if your class actually cares abt tier you select 3 / 5 / or 8 pc.

Ya we use that addon too. I suspect most of the LC votes are mostly arbitrary though. Eh, as long as high attendance people are getting more loot, w/e, im no loot whore, does not have to be perfect.

They do discuss rare/bis stuff, like mageblades and such.

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My god I just read the raider rank stuff. Imagine being this fucking sweaty. It's not even fun at that point (no, im not a baddie, I regularly top damage)