Could something be done to make people tank?

[Greengrim]

No, unless you can force DPS players to be nice to Tanks and Healers, because being patient and understanding is beyond their normal possibilities.

tank
go
go
go
tank
pull
pull already
TRASH TANK

These kind of thigs can usually be seen when the tanks are trash ... sorry but ... that's just how it is, based on my experiences.

[Penegal]

What's this "have an idea"? You don't just "have an idea" out of the blue. You need to study beforehand, get an addon, see where the pillars are, plan the route. For Waycrest, plan several routes. And then follow through with what you planned. And god forbid if you plan a route that isn't as good as the one that dps just did and +2ed, cause he'll start bitching halfway you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's not "hard", but it's something you have to do that dps don't.
New patch, replan ALL routes for all dungeons (at least one route for each). Last week when I got the +14 shrine key, I said we'd do it another day because I didn't plan the route and I didn't feel like doing it then. I didn't want to "wing" it. Some people are like that. Do you think any of the dps said "no worries, I'll plan the route and share it"?

Again, the point isn't how HARD it is. The point is that it's EXTRA stuff that you don't need to do as a dps.
Btw, you take for granted a lot of things you do as a tank because you're used to it.

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Sorry, I don't uderstand what you're saying. I'm a tank myself, so maybe that's why. Is it that tanks don't tank because they don't have time to gear up and get experience?

I play a DPS and when I get tired of waiting for a tank to show up I just swap. For example, first time I went in TOS this season was when I was tanking a +13. All I did was literally open MDT, click a few times and I'm good. We did very well and had time to spare. I don't remember if we did it +2 or just a +1 but we did time it. If I don't know I do a quick look up. If I've played it as a dps I just remember what the tank did. It's not really extra, unless you get technical about it. I also hate tanking. And honestly, most times you can get away with using a completely linear route and just need some info on when to use the pillars (in the current season, of course)

Also, I've been in groups where people just give the tank a route if they don't know. There are online routes that can easily be found with a simple google search. Example. Technically, it is extra. Realistically, it's mostly bitching about it. A lot of people are so used to having everything given to them on a silver platter that it's gotten to the point where a simple google search is considered too much work for tanks and that's why they avoid it.

[antelope591]

Nah, people not interrupting is the main reason I hate to put.

Did a +12 the other day where a DH didn't have one interrupt halfway through the dungeon. Don't even understand how that's possible but there it is. Then these guys will blame the tank or healer on the first wipe. Geez I wonder why no one wants those roles.

[chiddie]

Of course it is. Have you heard of this? We're human, we don't have infinite time. How many times would we have made leaps of progress if certain people never died? Everyone has limited time, what they manage to achieve within that time span is how they're measured. What if Mike Tyson never got old? What if Steve Jobs never died? What if Nicola Tesla was still alive? All those people have run out of time. If we all had infinite time nothing would matter. We'd have the cure for cancer, interstellar technology, unbeatable fighters.

Even boss mechanics are on a timer. If there was no timer and you had to ask for the next mechanic what would happen? How can you say that time is not a valuable way of measuring skill?

Yes, but also no because in standard life gear is not involved in the slightest.

In this game you can’t make it in time regardless the gear. In most games when you get them, gear is pointless. It helps but it’s not mandatory. Here you can’t beat N’Zoth naked, even if you perform top notch.

But we are derailing from the main topic my friend. From my tankish point of view, timer is an issue. For your tankish poin of view, it’s not.

And that’s perfectly fine.

[A Chozo]

These kind of thigs can usually be seen when the tanks are trash ... sorry but ... that's just how it is, based on my experiences.

These things are seen when the tank is trash, bad, average, good, excellent or perfect, because no tank can read the mind of the other members of the group and each member of the party have their own concept of what is the perfect tank.

I'm sorry you didn't see that in your experiences.

[Erous]

Take me back to more tank options, uniqueness, niche roles and mitigation. Starting with late WoTLK, tanks focused on 2 things: dmg and health pools. That was the major downfall. Bring back defense rating, crushing blows and mitigation. Make tanking more interesting. Personal opinion: bring back pally aoe tank gods and frost DK tanking.

Thanks.

[chiddie]

What's this "have an idea"? You don't just "have an idea" out of the blue. You need to study beforehand, get an addon, see where the pillars are, plan the route. For Waycrest, plan several routes. And then follow through with what you planned. And god forbid if you plan a route that isn't as good as the one that dps just did and +2ed, cause he'll start bitching halfway you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's not "hard", but it's something you have to do that dps don't.
New patch, replan ALL routes for all dungeons (at least one route for each). Last week when I got the +14 shrine key, I said we'd do it another day because I didn't plan the route and I didn't feel like doing it then. I didn't want to "wing" it. Some people are like that. Do you think any of the dps said "no worries, I'll plan the route and share it"?

Again, the point isn't how HARD it is. The point is that it's EXTRA stuff that you don't need to do as a dps.
Btw, you take for granted a lot of things you do as a tank because you're used to it.

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Sorry, I don't uderstand what you're saying. I'm a tank myself, so maybe that's why. Is it that tanks don't tank because they don't have time to gear up and get experience?

No, I am saying that not having to worry about the timer could smooth the tanking experience making it a little less stressful.

I myself don’t tank past +9 because I don’t want to re-learn all the routes due to the last affix, learning all of them until +9 has been time consuming enough for me. Especially when as dps I am allowed to not give a shit about all this additional stuff and get the exact same rewards at the end of the run (loot is not even guaranteed for all the party members, another lame thing).

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These things are seen when the tank is trash, bad, average, good, excellent or perfect, because no tank can read the mind of the other members of the group and each member of the party have their own concept of what is the perfect tank.

I'm sorry you didn't see that in your experiences.

I remember some time ago in S2, I ran a Freehold +dontremember and group ended with a +3 key “great dps!”. The day after we did not make it even through first boss (another group, same key level) and of course I was the worst tank ever.

Not that I minded that much, but indeed, this happens quite often.

[Fayenoor]

Tanks are focal points of raid or any group content which requires tanking. So, tanking mistakes usually end in wipes which is why tanks gets criticized the most. There's very little room for learning on the job for the tank. The higher you go, the tougher it becomes. You need to know positioning, path, pull order perfectly etc.

Many people don't have the personality to deal with being the center of attention and the criticism which comes with it. And I don't blame them. People are extremely toxic in pugs and there's no reason for anyone to deal with that level of verbal abuse.

This is why tanking will always be the least popular of the 3 roles. And no amount of bonus loot will help alleviate that.

P.S. I am healer and am not a tank but I commiserate with their sorry state.

[SirCowdog]

What. The DPS has equal if not more responsibility than the tank and healer. If they aren't coordinated, they'll cause the tank or even someone else to die or get one shot on pretty much every trash pull. How on earth can you claim that DPS can just "spam attacks"? Are we playing the same game?

Apparently not. And apparently you didn't read the rest of the thread either.

[Djuntas]

Take me back to more tank options, uniqueness, niche roles and mitigation. Starting with late WoTLK, tanks focused on 2 things: dmg and health pools. That was the major downfall. Bring back defense rating, crushing blows and mitigation. Make tanking more interesting. Personal opinion: bring back pally aoe tank gods and frost DK tanking.

Thanks.

Hello, while I don't think it would really help I would love it. Prot paladin's in TBC was the most fun ever, and frost DK tanking was so good...Hated that they removed it. Also in TBC being a main druid and tanking raids etc it was fun to have more HP and armor than anyone else.

Edit; I think Blizzard just have to encourage it through forced integration or make some social systems for it. Tanking is not hard anyway - Only problem with tanking is when you are new and dont know the instances...that sucks ass, cause not knowing the pulls is nasty.

[Adam Jensen]

Here's how you get people to play a tank.

It's really simple.

GET THE DPS TO STOP PULLING SHIT.

There. That's all you have to. Don't make me chase around the dungeon trying to gather up all the mobs your ADHD ass had to run off to aggro. I am the tank. I have a good idea of how much I can handle at once, and how much the healer can handle at once. The DPS don't have that knowledge, they aren't looking at my cooldowns or healthbar.

If people would respect the tank's roll to pull the mobs and play as a team rather than ME ME ME GO GO GO all the time, there might be more tanks.

[Aeula]

It's not so much that tank responsibility needs to be reduced, but more that the responsibilities each member of the group carries needs to be equalized.

Time after time we see people pointing out that DPS can basically just spam their attacks. And even when there is a responsibility to handle, there are three people that can do it instead of just one.

Blizzard badly needs to address this or the situation will continue to degrade.

All I see that doing is causing more wipes. I've had enough experience with Mythic+ to realise just how bad your average player is at the game.

[rrayy]

That usually only happens when that tank has seen enough shit to last him a while. Unless the tank as a person IRL is just a jerk for the sake of being a jerk, most tanks tend not to say anything past the occasional "we're about to get to x" or "we're about to do y" and then ask the group to follow. Some don't even speak, lol.

Very rarely have I seen a non-russian tank or one who isn't from Kazzak-EU be a shitlord in group content. I have nothing against russians, they're chill neighbors as far as countries go, but dayum, they need to get their act together when they join non-russian groups. And Kazzak, well it's kazzak, the most toxic realm outside Draenor on EU, so it's expected that pugs with any decent character progress in m+ or raids will be dicks to others not on their realm. Tanks from other realms have been chill for me so far in the last 5 years of group content. Then again, there's the tanks from Ysondre and other spanish realms on EU that just suck and are toxic just for added measure. Again, nothing against spain or spanish people, but dayum man, it's either a god level spanish player in group or a shit tier one, never one in between.

I'm probably gonna get an infraction for this post, but meh, some things just have to be said.

That is such nonsense. I have seen plenty of tanks in my time playing that come int with aa holier than thou attitude and that everythign revolves around them. Tanks are just as toxic as any other player.

[SirCowdog]

All I see that doing is causing more wipes. I've had enough experience with Mythic+ to realise just how bad your average player is at the game.

Initially I think this would be true. We saw the same thing with cata heroics before the nerf. But as people adjust to the new dynamic I think it wouldn't be nearly so bad as you might expect.

That's the nature of the problem: There are no quick fixes. It's not something that players will adjust to in a single patch. They've taken over a decade to reach the current state of "go go go". And it's likely going to take an entire expansion or so to steer away from that.

[Marrilaife]

What is the problem?

Those ex-tanks already listen to you they quit the role. most I read is that they missed the role, they wish for something else, I don't see them demanding it though.

We all miss something in WOW, we all wish WOW could be something. I am not demanding blizzard to listen to me though, that is why I am skipping BFA for now. No hard feeling!

but the topic itself is "doing something to MAKE people tank", well...

Yep, basically...
Step 1: Make a thread "Could something be done to make people tank?"
Step 2: Have a bunch of smartasses come by with the usual comments how tanking is "easy", "boring", people who have problem tanking should "git gud" etc.
Step 3: Even more people stop tanking because apparently they aren't enough "git gud" to handle this "elite playerbase".
Step 4: Return to square 1.

So far probably there's been a whole book about "how to discourage scrubs from tanking", but how to increase number of tanks in the community? All blank pages.

The post you replied to was a picture of wow pug community in a nutshell: "hurr durr I'm 20 mins in this group finder and no tanks", tank comes, "hurr durr this tank is so brain dead and doesn't even know routes in +5". I mean ofc you aren't getting a pro tank in low key, you're gonna get newbies and alts and it's the same story about healers and dps in +5 too, but somehow people bitch less about them. Since people don't like to be bitched at, and it's a general human trait no matter their iq, experience, age or race, you'll always have 50 dps for 1 tank or something along these lines.

And the general advice is "just grow a pair and have a thick skin", you know that being ballsy and overconfident doesn't mean you like to be bitched at? It just means that you've became an asshole who ignores everyone and everything and does something despite the bitching because of reward or some other goal you have. So if that's your advice for tanks, don't complain after that you've met tanks that behaved like primadonnas or assholes, if you earlier said "thinskinned crybabies should just quit" guess what, they probably did, so you're left with jerks.

Since this is a game people pay for to play, all the questions "how to make people do X" are completely stupid. You can't "make" or "force" people to do stuff. At best you can "lure" or "bribe" them, otherwise they can always, always just choose to walk away and quit. It's the same about everything "how to make people play tanks", "how to get more people into raiding", "how to balance factions in world pvp", worst part is if Blizzard comes up with any reward system to encourage people, immediately opposite bitching starts "why the people who do something I don't wanna do get extra rewards?"

[Bodakane]

Yup, the player base is just full of terrible people. You want tanks, then quit being dicks and let them learn and play at their speed.

[Loveliest]

I see a lot of people here saying that dps would make tanks "fun", but if you really think about it, dps is just numbers, won't change anything...

I used to tank in Legion, but I got tired of being yelled at just because I wasn't following someones route, even if sometimes mine would be better. In bfa it became even worse with the reduced aggro and increased responsibility.

In order to have more tanks, the specs need to become a bit less boring and have less responsibility. Maybe get rid of interrupts, make that a dps only job, maybe give them some interesting utility? Make dungeons less route-optimal?

Hell no. The start of Cata when paladin tank dididn't have a reliable interrupt was the most miserable time. I'm exaggerating, but i really dislike relying on dps for things like that. Seeing them not interrupt makes me rage.
If you want less responsibility, do it in a different way, not by taking away tools.
I like the last bit though about the route.

[Melsiren]

Nope.

After they removed vengeance in MoP tanking is just not fun by comparison. Though Libram of Vindication for protection Paladin from Archimond made tanking pretty fun.

[Gestopft]

I think a lot of people find tanking to be the most stress/pressure in the group and don't really want to be the 'center of attention' in that manner. It's easy for a DPS/Healer to just follow along if they aren't as familiar with the dungeon, but I think generally the tank has the highest expectations from the community and that scares people away.

Did a +12 the other day where a DH didn't have one interrupt halfway through the dungeon. Don't even understand how that's possible but there it is. Then these guys will blame the tank or healer on the first wipe. Geez I wonder why no one wants those roles.

How the hell does that guy get into a +12 anyway? DH should be chomping at the bit to interrupt first because of the DPS gain.

[luciano]

I main a tank, but pretty casual - currently 4/12HC, 2 day a week guild.

I'd tank a lot more hardcore if necrotic was removed and raids were more fun for tanks.

And M+ is the worst for tanks, you can't wing it like other specs can to a reasonable level - have to know what pulls do what, when to use CDs, where to go, which mobs to skip etc - so why the hell do we have to cope with the most stressful mechanic in the world - necrotic - as well as all of this?

I'm not going to start because I have such a deep hatred for that affix.

This is kind of what's wrong with people today.

EVERYONE in the place should know that information, not just the tank. Allowing DPS to be idiots while expecting tanks to prepare creates a disincentive to tank. So fix the part where DPS are allowed to be morons. Problem solved.