BWL world first progression thread

[Revamp Man]

If we get TBC next, it's important that we all demand pre nerf TBC. This wasn't done for Classic, majority was happy with 1.12 and there was no real demand for item progression.

Not saying pre nerf TBC is going to be super hard, I did it all at the time, I just don't want to get TBC in the nerfed state.

Again even if it is not NERFED the raids will fall much much faster

You will not see lady standing for 27 days you will not see sun strider standing for two months

You will not see Raid‘s stacking bloodlust for Muru

The bosses will fall it will not be as it was over a decade ago and people need to realize that no matter what they do even if they released it in the exact state that it was ended a patch by patch system it would not be the same and it would still be easy because we have gotten better as a player base

[Specialka]

So, let me get this straight. You openly admit you have no idea what the difficultly of retail raiding is like, say you try not to speak about things you know little about, then go on to say that Classic is more difficult despite not knowing how difficult retail is? I really hope this is a troll post.

I am pretty sure he is talking about the "leveling experience" (which we do not care in modern wow) and / or dungeon (which are far harder in current wow).

[Monster Hunter]

haha yeah good point! Classic raids in 2020 is not hard, it just requires prep & time before you enter the raid. The raid(s) itself aint hard at all. With 40 man raids you cant really make complex fights. Imagine retail raids of today with a roster of 40 people, or just even LFR with 40 people. Its a mess enough already.

The game(retail) is harder today when looking at mechanics etc on bosses. It requires more of you.

As a player who has played since launch and grown up with the game I noticed years ago that the difficulty bar was raised(except on lfr). Even normal mode requires more of you.

In classic you just stood there most of the time pressing 1 button without anything going on. then boss would do 1-2 abilities throughout the fight. But in classic you aslo had to put in the time before & after raids to be ready.

Its kind of interesting watching how many people on this forum constantly shitting on LFR all the while alot of people praise classic raids who is about same difficulty, atleast so far. Whats REALLY the deal there? It cant be the difficulty, it must be something else.

Thing is I've played the game since early 06 and bar a few breaks for uni and not playing this summer as I got hacked off with bfa class design I like most have probly played all that time have seen there fair share of "I'm quitting because this game now caters for casuals" typed posts and messages in guild. Those posts usualy then going to how much harder things were and that it's too easy now and they lost interest.

Thing is looking back when ever those posts came from people I knew, most of the time they were people like me, people who were sweaty little teenage shits like me that binned of school to play wow and eat our way in snacks to early diabetes, the difference being that I mellowed out and accepted that I'm just not very good at games and the only reason I sat there with AQ40 gear by the time tbc was out and could act like a hardcore little shit was because I had the free time and was lucky in the guild I joined. And when alot of them quit it was a relief as many of my old freinds became very resentful screeching little nostalgia sluts that spent half the raid nights talking about bosses from expansions ago, and the other half inspecting the floor texture whilst blaming every one else for the failings.

Listening to APES honestly filled me with deep revulsion remembering the past, kind of like being reminded of an embarrassing night out because I could relate and have been in raids like that, with spurg raid leaders like that. And when I sit there thinking "what a bunch of sad little pathetic looser's screaming like this over this piss easy content" I realise I'm also talking about my 16 year old self and that's depressing.

[Tekkommo]

Again even if it is not NERFED the raids will fall much much faster

You will not see lady standing for 27 days you will not see sun strider standing for two months

You will not see Raid‘s stacking bloodlust for Muru

The bosses will fall it will not be as it was over a decade ago and people need to realize that no matter what they do even if they released it in the exact state that it was ended a patch by patch system it would not be the same and it would still be easy because we have gotten better as a player base

Where did I claim it would? Lady Vashj was bugged anyway, that's why she wasn't killed sooner.

Listening to APES honestly filled me with deep revulsion remembering the past, kind of like being reminded of an embarrassing night out because I could relate and have been in raids like that, with spurg raid leaders like that. And when I sit there thinking "what a bunch of sad little pathetic looser's screaming like this over this piss easy content" I realise I'm also talking about my 16 year old self and that's depressing.

Easy content they also over gear (although you could argue pre bis is also over gearing it as it was). Most of them are R13+.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

One thing is for certain... world first threads for both versions of the game seem to boil down to a lot of people whining and thats about it. Which happens to be the main reason I don't give a flip about it in either. Its pretty obvious to me it's nothing really offical and that most people don't care about it unless it supports them in some other agenda. In BFA and newer live tiers it seems to be about who is better because of what continent they live on or something stupid like that. In Classic it seems to just be the agenda of what game is better than which game.

All things that kinda point to these races themselves not meaning much themselves but rather them just being a vessel of internet kiddo rage outs.

[ellieg]

I'm not surprised that the guilds that have been practicing, cleared it so fast. But anyone else who actually raids in classic (not half the internet badasses in here who dont even play the game) happy that you wiped last night? We have slackers in my guild so started late but we only got 2 bosses down last night. Had to adjust our strat for razorgore, and then the same for vael. Spent 20 some mins figuring out that we shld just go right side for suppression room cause ppl kept pulling the top part. Then someone aggrod broodlord before we were rdy and we called it a night.

I'm sure we will have it on farm soon enough, but felt good to face some adversity and actually progress as a guild.

Ppl clearing it in 43 mins doesnt affect me. Slightly more difficult content does. For all the ppl that talk abt how much of a joke this raid is, did your guild clear nef last night? Did you get stuck anywhere? Or do you not even raid in classic?

[Mukind]

One thing is for certain... world first threads for both versions of the game seem to boil down to a lot of people whining and thats about it. Which happens to be the main reason I don't give a flip about it in either. Its pretty obvious to me it's nothing really offical and that most people don't care about it unless it supports them in some other agenda. In BFA and newer live tiers it seems to be about who is better because of what continent they live on or something stupid like that. In Classic it seems to just be the agenda of what game is better than which game.

All things that kinda point to these races themselves not meaning much themselves but rather them just being a vessel of internet kiddo rage outs.

Imagine that a video game race that has no payout doesn't really matter

Thanks for enlightening us captain obvious

[Skulltaker]

This take is not funny or clever. Everyone knows that. There is still some skill in clearing a raid, on a new server, first.

Yes, the skill to look up and understand the work someone else did 15 years ago, and reap the fruits of their labor. You also need to click 5 buttons and your mouse on occasion.

Except Classic isn't Vanilla. It's a much easier form of Vanilla, but it isn't Vanilla. Therefore World First still has a reason to be talked about, and everyone fully understands that, and literally everyone saying "WF happened 15 years ago!!" is only being an insufferable smartass.

If the truth is insufferable for you, that is entirely a 'you' problem. Nothing in Classic was ever hard. Everything just took ages. You can make an argument for Naxx, which was the first raid that actually had any noteworthy mechanics.

[Monster Hunter]

Where did I claim it would? Lady Vashj was bugged anyway, that's why she wasn't killed sooner.



Easy content they also over gear (although you could argue pre bis is also over gearing it as it was). Most of them are R13+.

And still there screaming at eachother like a bunch of complete melts. And can't even do a basic interupt rotation. The fact they massively out gear the content, and the content is about as mechanical complex as a rock anyway just makes it more sad and pathetic not less.

There's guild still stuck progressing normal nyalotha with far more brains and maturity than what I saw displayed in that 40 minute autism expo. Apes were the worst of the streams but the others wernt much better.

People who take classic that seriously are as one of my guild mates put best "sad pathetic hasbeens"

[CostinR]

Again even if it is not NERFED the raids will fall much much faster

You will not see lady standing for 27 days you will not see sun strider standing for two months

You will not see Raid‘s stacking bloodlust for Muru

The bosses will fall it will not be as it was over a decade ago and people need to realize that no matter what they do even if they released it in the exact state that it was ended a patch by patch system it would not be the same and it would still be easy because we have gotten better as a player base

What the hell is pre-nerf TBC anyway? Sure there are some clear things like Vashj mind controlling, Al'Ar movement and adds, Solarian etc but by and large the clear cut majority of bosses stayed roughly the same.

Sure we got stronger with talents and gear and that made things easier, but what really make everything enormously easy is that we know everything: We know the abilities of the boss and what's the most optimal way to deal with them. The only way these bosses could become challenging is if Blizzard changed their mechanics completely.

[Skulltaker]

Ppl clearing it in 43 mins doesnt affect me. Slightly more difficult content does. For all the ppl that talk abt how much of a joke this raid is, did your guild clear nef last night? Did you get stuck anywhere? Or do you not even raid in classic?

My guild cleared it 15 years ago. Server first. And it took a while. But it was never considered hard.

From a modern standpoint, this raid is a joke. You can make it harder if you go out, buy a PC from 15 years ago, downgrade your connection to 1 Mbps, but nothing in BWL was ever hard.

And honestly? If you struggle with content that has been dissected for 15 years, with the amount of skill required to master classes in classic, with 15 years of information being collected and openly displayed, that says more about the quality of your raid than it does about the quality of BWL. Which is kind of obvious by several instances of people adding enemies (including a boss) by accident.

If you enjoy it, good for you. There is no shame in enjoying easy stuff. And I mean that. I know it sounds condescending after my little monologue here, but I truly mean it. If you have fun, great! That doesn't change the fact that it is fucking easy.

[Tekkommo]

What the hell is pre-nerf TBC anyway? Sure there are some clear things like Vashj mind controlling, Al'Ar movement and adds, Solarian etc but by and large the clear cut majority of bosses stayed roughly the same.

Sure we got stronger with talents and gear and that made things easier, but what really make everything enormously easy is that we know everything: We know the abilities of the boss and what's the most optimal way to deal with them. The only way these bosses could become challenging is if Blizzard changed their mechanics completely.

It's mainly the heroic dungeons that were nerfed.

From the top of my head, Magtheridon trash was nerfed, that was a nightmare at the time. Like a 30 min respawn and if it respawned during an attempt, they would aggro. You could class this as a bug I guess?

[d00mh4cker]

How come after 16 days only 4 guilds have cleared new mythic raid on retail and after 1 day, yes 1 day, 550 guilds have cleared BWL?

How is this possible when classic is such a hardcore game only for the hardcore elite players?
Can it be that classic really just is a time consuming dog shit LFR mode game?

[ellieg]

My guild cleared it 15 years ago. Server first. And it took a while. But it was never considered hard.

From a modern standpoint, this raid is a joke. You can make it harder if you go out, buy a PC from 15 years ago, downgrade your connection to 1 Mbps, but nothing in BWL was ever hard.

And honestly? If you struggle with content that has been dissected for 15 years, with the amount of skill required to master classes in classic, with 15 years of information being collected and openly displayed, that says more about the quality of your raid than it does about the quality of BWL. Which is kind of obvious by several instances of people adding enemies (including a boss) by accident.

If you enjoy it, good for you. There is no shame in enjoying easy stuff. And I mean that. I know it sounds condescending after my little monologue here, but I truly mean it. If you have fun, great! That doesn't change the fact that it is fucking easy.

I cleared it 15 years ago as well. It's easy to say it's been done before and it's not as complex as retails raids, so its easy. But you still gotta get positioning right. Threat is a major mechanic in classic that is all but non existent in retail. And you have to get 40 ppl on the same page.

I'm not pretending it's hard. I'm just stating that saying that the guilds in the best gear who have 1000s of hours of practice managed to beat it in 43 minutes, doesmt matter to the average classic raider.

Are you currently raiding in classic?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Honestly the worse thing we went though was just trying to zone in. Half the night it took. 10 minutes until a loading screen came up and sometimes you would often appear in UBRS instead. Or even worse res outside a the orb that had 50 of the opposite faction just spamming aoes in the area. Then we finally all mange to get into BWL and get to boss 2 and suddenly boss 1's adds start spawning again and running in on us. So we fight the loading screen, getting spawned into different areas, and PvP entrance for another 20 minutes or so on.

That was the biggest major slow down.

[Shockzalot]

How come after 16 days only 4 guilds have cleared new mythic raid on retail and after 1 day, yes 1 day, 550 guilds have cleared BWL?

How is this possible when classic is such a hardcore game only for the hardcore elite players?
Can it be that classic really just is a time consuming dog shit LFR mode game?

The mythic content wasn't released 15 years ago and farmed on private servers for an eternity?

[gobarj]

I'm not sure what the arguments are anymore in this thread...

Classic raids will always be easier now since they weren't designed for "today", they were designed for 15 years ago. If anything, Naxx will be more interesting to watch since it will have the same patch it had back then and had some mechanics to deal with. That's not to say they weren't difficult back then, they absolutely were but it also has to do with everything else (PCs, connection, lag, knowledge, addons, gear and the current patch, bugs).

The other thing that wasn't happening much was multiple raids to feed gear to mains, something people can do to increase their DPS even further.

Right now what we're seeing is not some 'tactical execution', but rather kill it fast and ignore mechanics before it kills us, kind of the thing you expect when you overgear something ridiculously.

[d00mh4cker]

The mythic content wasn't released 15 years ago and farmed on private servers for an eternity?

Does it take 15 years to get it right? The guilds have been clearing it on PTR since the PTR was released. Same on retail, guilds are testing on PTR 24/7 for months before it releases.

How is PTR different from private servers?

Are you saying that 22000 that so far ( after 1 day ) have been clearing it for 15 years on private servers? You mad bruh xD
PTR is all you need.

[gobarj]

Does it take 15 years to get it right? The guilds have been clearing it on PTR since the PTR was released. Same on retail, guilds are testing on PTR 24/7 for months before it releases.

How is PTR different from private servers?

Are you saying that 22000 that so far ( after 1 day ) have been clearing it for 15 years on private servers? You mad bruh xD
PTR is all you need.

PTR does not provide unfettered access to testing raid bosses so your logic is entirely flawed, feel free to prove me wrong though. At most you get 2 hours on a boss to test and then it's time to pack it up.

[d00mh4cker]

PTR does not provide unfettered access to testing raid bosses so your logic is entirely flawed, feel free to prove me wrong though. At most you get 2 hours on a boss to test and then it's time to pack it up.

556 guilds now, i guess all 22 240 players have been clearing it on private servers for the last 15 years xD

When MC was cleared in a couple of hours people said "but BWL will get harder", what now? Now it's Naxx, "Naxx will get impossible!!!11111".

Get a grip dude. Its easy. Even casual guilds like my friends who play will have it cleared as soon as they enter the shit.