Do you support Student Loan Bankruptcy or forgiveness?

[breadisfunny]

[QUOTE=I Push Buttons;52104648]"WAHHHHH just give me $250,000 for free to go to some tiny private university for my underwater basket weaving degree WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!"
[QUOTE]

do you have an ACTUAL argument or just a ad homineum?

[Collegeguy]

Student loan debt in the US is already forgivable under law after so many years.

[breadisfunny]

Student loan debt in the US is already forgivable under law after so many years.

i'm almost certain they got rid of that in 2005. prior to that it was 10 yrs i think.

[the game]

i'm almost certain they got rid of that in 2005. prior to that it was 10 yrs i think.

no it's still there. after 25 years for people not in government jobs or non profitt jobs. But there are criteria that needs to be met.

[Collegeguy]

i'm almost certain they got rid of that in 2005. prior to that it was 10 yrs i think.

No it still exists under federal loans from the usual navient, perkins. As long as you're not going to something like Harvard that breaks the limit you can get, all of it can be federal student loans. It's enough to go to a 4 year state university. I did it with ease.

[Rennadrel]

The production and advancement of the ideas that hold a society together are equally as important as the utilitarian things a society needs. If you think that you can burn every history, philosophy, etc. book in the country and still maintain a cohesive society, good luck with your incredible naivety and shortsightedness.

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Or you could stop trying to micromanage what kind of education people want to get and just allow us to have a coherent modern society.

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People used to be given mortgages fresh out of high school with their first job. You are assuming that the fundamentally broken system we have is just "the way things have to be".

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Because you can't get a good job without a four year college degree in almost any case.

You don't have to "burn every history or philosophy book". Just incentivize career paths where there's a major skill and labour shortage. People who pursue career paths and wind up not getting into fields that they studied due to low demand for their skills should not be a priority for tuition reimbursement. America suffers from labour shortages in certain sectors the same as us Canadians do. Give incentives to pursue tech sector, trades and medical education because those are of the highest value to society these days. We don't need more philosophy majors, we need more teachers and nurses, however.

[Raeph]

Discharged in bankruptcy so that it will require investors, schools and the government will take the black eye as well if the student is given $200k in loans for a seven year associate degree in political science, or something else equally unmarketable.

You wont' fix the student debt crisis with out making investors and the students feeling a bit of pain for their poor choice in degree program.

[Stormdash]

This is all a joke without scrutinizing the impact of unlimited borrowing on climbing tuition (spoilers: It's the primary cause). That's a problem that will be *exacerbated* by forgiveness and even moreso by fReE cOlLeGe, because you know there's zero chance the Dep't of Ed would be scrutinizing and questioning the tab.

[Orbitus]

I am sure the loan they are talking about is $200k.
No one cares about $25k.

I agree with someone said.
If this education doesn't pay enough to pay back the loan, why do you even go to the school in the first place?

It is not that people can't pay back the loan, it is the paying the loan payments while working and paying other things like mortgage, utilities, food, car payment, etc.

[breadisfunny]

Discharged in bankruptcy so that it will require investors, schools and the government will take the black eye as well if the student is given $200k in loans for a seven year associate degree in political science, or something else equally unmarketable.

You wont' fix the student debt crisis with out making investors and the students feeling a bit of pain for their poor choice in degree program.

where exactly do you think the teachers to teach our students come from? or do you think we wave a magic wand and just shit them out?

[Zython]

People keep talking about how we can't afford to pay for student loan forgiveness, as if we'd actually pay back the creditors, rather than sending them a polite letter telling them to eat shit and die.

[Raeph]

where exactly do you think the teachers to teach our students come from? or do you think we wave a magic wand and just shit them out?

I think that if you are choosing a degree program that is in the top 200 of professions in demand then the government should foot the bill and give you a free ride as long as you stay that field for at least ten years. If you choose between 201-top 50% then loans, scholarships, grants and other aid based on need should be easily available to you. If you choose the lower 50% or in a large number of professions with projected negative growth then the only way to pay for it is student loans, that can be discharged in bankruptcy, so that investors will feel the pain as well as the student if they can't make a living with their certificate.

Teachers are and will always be in high demand and the government should foot the bill for anyone who chooses to take on that responsibility.

If you choose to get a bachelors degree in Popular Culture (which is a thing, https://www.bgsu.edu/arts-and-scienc...r-culture.html), then it should be all on you to pay for it.

All college degree's aren't created equal and we (the greater culture) shouldn't be on the hook for paying for questionable degree's or certificates that the job markets consider valueless.

[xenogear3]

If you take a programming class, it is you own fault.

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Programming a VCR?
I bet many people here don't know what a VCR is.

Seriously, college is not designed to be economical.
It is similar to congress build a bridge leads to nowhere.

[breadisfunny]

If you take a programming class, it is you own fault.

***** spoiler ******

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Programming a VCR?
I bet many people here don't know what a VCR is.

Seriously, college is not designed to be economical.
It is similar to congress build a bridge leads to nowhere.

video cassette recorder.

[tromage2]

Why would I pay tax so that young ppl have a better position to get a job and Put pressure on my own position. You want to study to have a better position then it’s your free choice and you have to pay for it yourself.

[God Save The King]

Student Debt Forgiveness is the way to go. Provide affordable or free public college going forward. Invest in the future.

Those unable to make it into public schools can still opt to pay their way through private schools, just like in other nations.

Disclaimer: I've already paid off my student debt.

[omeomorfismo]

Why would I pay tax so that young ppl have a better position to get a job and Put pressure on my own position. You want to study to have a better position then it’s your free choice and you have to pay for it yourself.

because otherwise people in shitty conditions resort to violence to survive. but maybe you are interested in paying a lot more in police than instruction, after all US exists for some reason

[Zan15]

Why would I pay tax so that young ppl have a better position to get a job and Put pressure on my own position. You want to study to have a better position then it’s your free choice and you have to pay for it yourself.

I mean under the program they will be paying for it themselves.

Its not rocket science.

America pays off their student loan debt of 100k.

They get a job.

They pay taxes for the next 50 years...HERE'S THE KICKER FOLKS....paying off other people's debt...…(omg look at that)


Saving everyone money in the long run and improving the economy and society as a whole for everyone.

I mean how hard is it to understand that?

[Elegiac]

This is all a joke without scrutinizing the impact of unlimited borrowing on climbing tuition (spoilers: It's the primary cause). That's a problem that will be *exacerbated* by forgiveness and even moreso by fReE cOlLeGe, because you know there's zero chance the Dep't of Ed would be scrutinizing and questioning the tab.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

You do realise that the reason as to why single payer systems are more effective at negotiating lower drug prices also applies here, yes? The Department of Education has a hell of a lot more bargaining power than any one group of students.

So no, the idea that they'll just be handing out blank checks left and right is nonsense. If it were true the VA wouldn't be underfunded, but given that is the case we can flush your line of reasoning down the drain along with other Republican myths designed to justify brutalising the poor like the Welfare Queen or the Million Dollar Toilet Seat.

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I think that if you are choosing a degree program that is in the top 200 of professions in demand then the government should foot the bill and give you a free ride as long as you stay that field for at least ten years.

This is literally indentured servitude.

Which is explicitly unconstitutional as well as blatantly fucking unethical., to say nothing of how moronic it is to be setting degree track requirements when a) there's no evidence that 'useless degrees' exist or that people choose them in significantly greater numbers and b) the nature of the economy changes so rapidly that this essentially cripples your workforce's ability to retrain.

Educating the population is a matter of national security.

[Raeph]

This is literally indentured servitude.

Which is explicitly unconstitutional as well as blatantly fucking unethical., to say nothing of how moronic it is to be setting degree track requirements when a) there's no evidence that 'useless degrees' exist or that people choose them in significantly greater numbers and b) the nature of the economy changes so rapidly that this essentially cripples your workforce's ability to retrain.

Educating the population is a matter of national security.

1) United States Government figures from their own website: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/most-new-jobs.htm

Between 2018-2028 in the top ten highest growth jobs in the united states these three would need a college degree:

Position - Average Salary - Estimate Increase
Registered Nurse - $71730 - 304800
Software Develper- $103620 - 241500
General/Operational Manager - $100930 - 165000

If you spend 4 years going to college on the governments dime, to then work ten years in a field making an average (between these three jobs) of $92093 a year then is it really servitude? You're argument falls flat as the government already has programs that do this, grants in aid in exchange for societal or government service, (GI Bill, TEACH Grant for teachers, etc).

This isn't indentured servitude, it is a contractually arrangement that equals a benefit for both the government and the grant recipient. The only place where this program would differ is that the grant recipient wouldn't be guaranteed a job placement in the public sector, instead they would be prepared for work in the private sector.

2) I never said "useless degree" what I said was "questionable degree's or certificates that the job markets consider valueless". There are two ways to gauge the worth in any kind of learned skill or information: does the market consider it valuable or does the person learning it consider it valuable.

In my example, if you want to get a four year degree in Pop Culture, knock yourself out and enjoy yourself while reveling in the personal enrichment. Have at it.

At the same time, don't expect a company trying to hire a Site Operations Manager to hire you for that position, if they are looking for someone with a degree that you don't have.

That was my point. The job market has many openings, with employers looking for people with specific skills to resolve problems in their business, or to manage groups of skilled people for specific projects. If you don't have the skills, don't have the certificates or don't have the experience to meet the job requirements then for the purpose of that specific job employers, representing the market in this case, will consider you and your skill set valueless for the purpose of fulfilling their need.

This isn't complicated.

Employer, "I'm looking to fill job 1, and I need a person with skills A, but will also take B or C."

Applicant, "I'll take the job, and I have skills M, and Y."

Employer, "..."
Employer, "I repeat, 'I'm looking to fill job 1, and I need a person with skills A, but will also take B or C.'"

3) Debatable, depending on what you mean by "national security". It's such a vague pronouncement that you could literally mean anything by that statement.