Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[shadowmouse]

Will never be a thingin Germany bcs we value our freedom and don´t like to be at the mery of computers aka being able to have/get money and don´t be/can be forced to spend money when we don´t like it.

<shadowmouse scratches head> OK, I see you got to use the word freedom, but I don't see why you've used it.

1) "At the mercy of computers" It's ... your phone.

2) "Being able to have/get money" See the post by @swiftowner just above you. Having phone payment as an option doesn't prevent me from using my bank or the bank's ATM network, it simply gives me another payment option. When I was in the hospital, I was able to use my phone to have a friend send me new clothes or to have my youngest daughter send me tea. When I went to another hospital, a friend helped set up the ride service because it was two hours away from me. She decided she wanted me to take a better car, so she paid the driver by phone ... from Inner Mongolia. You can see from swiftowner's post, his wife was able to buy him a cup of coffee even though he didn't have the app on his phone. All it does is provide convenience.

3) "we can get our money from the bankomats" Yep, should I want to, I can do that too. I use WeChat and Alipay, both are tied directly to bank cards.

For me, while I *could* use paper money, things like the virus remind me of how much I prefer *not* having to deal with it. I don't have to worry about how much money I need to carry for a given period of time. I don't have to worry about getting counterfeit. I might get mugged and my phone grabbed, but they would still have to break the phone's security and the app's security (sure, they could force me to unlock it, but people have been forced to make ATM withdrawals too and with the phone I'm probably carrying less cash).

As far as privacy, paper money offers an illusion. If you're being tracked, you're on CCTV anyway and your phone company and ISP are probably cooperating with the police. Buying a currywurst on the sly won't really matter. I recall Norway wanted to go paperless because of the grey market economy, but that's taking us far afield from the virus and better off in a new thread.

[Muajin76]

^This 100%. I’m amazed at how well integrated WeChat is for paying for things. One of the previous times I went to China, I had to leave a week early for work. My wife forgot to give me money, as she’d been holding onto all the cash. Me being me, a foreigner to China, I didn’t know how good WeChat is, so I didn’t have it installed. My wife called to talk to me before boarding my flight to leave, and tells me to buy some drinks. I’m like, I don’t have any money for the vending machines... she had me send her a picture of the machine’s barcode, and moments later out comes a drink.

Mind blown. It would be great if everything was that well integrated together.

Phone payments have been slowly being able to be used in the states. Not on the scale that china has. China also has alipay but seems to be for chinese nationals only. Wechat pay doesnt seem to work for me *dunno about anyone else* outside of mainland china. Even HK it won't work. When i went to Tokyo, luckily my unionpay card worked and was able to buy stuff. Some restaurants/hotels will accept unionpay, so that's good. Mental note, if you ever try to use a unionpay card in the us, probably will end up losing it. *i had my chinese unionpay card eaten and was unable to get it back*

online shopping in china is MASSIVE. My roomie and gf ordered masks, which were either out of stock/unable to be shipped or had the price jacked up. Hey shadow, have you tried using wechat pay/alipay outside of mainland? *at most airports ive been to outside of the us, gives discounts off wechat/alipay/unionpay*

[shadowmouse]

China also has alipay but seems to be for chinese nationals only.

Odd, I haven't had any trouble with Alipay and prefer to use it over WeChat when possible. You do need to make sure your bank information is up to date, your name has to be exactly as the account has it, and your phone number has to match the phone number for your bank account. If I recall, you've been here about 3 years, and that means you may have missed the change over to new, chipped bank cards that are supposed to be more secure.

I've had this phone number for so long that it was still under an old gf's ID info because it had to be attached to a Chinese ID. A few years back, we had to update ID for the phone cards and were able to use my passport number instead, but if your school or a friend helped you get your card that might be part of the problem -- your phone info and your bank info won't match.

I'm just a professor at a state university, the money is in working with kids. Traveling outside the mainland is like dividing my income by the exchange rate, so I don't. I still have too much to see and do here. Damn, moving is going to feel weird and not just because of having to handle money again.

Well, one of the Herd is less than 1 km from a confirmed case. This is my buddy who looked after me at Cupcake's hospital, which means they're probably getting cases. Hopefully they'll both be OK.

[Corvus]

I heard it reported that China has half a billion people in some form of quarantine currently. Surely that can't be right. If they did, it would be tanking the economy hard, having nearly half the population in that state.

If it is, then the Chinese government must be much much more worried than they are letting on. After all, we know just how important their economy is to them, and for them to be interrupting it to such an extend can't be good for it.

[shadowmouse]

having nearly half the population in that state.

I think you mean a third.

It is going to depend on how you're defining your figures for "some form of quarantine". If we go by things like requiring masks and limiting gatherings, probably most of the country is impacted in some way. My friend in Inner Mongolia is kinda in the middle of nowhere, but her hotel is closed and she says restaurants are also closed.

I don't take it as a sign the government is worried on the level that it would take to have, say, the US take the same measures. I think it does show that the government is aware that they have to be seen as doing everything possible to respond.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

<shadowmouse scratches head> OK, I see you got to use the word freedom, but I don't see why you've used it.

1) "At the mercy of computers" It's ... your phone.

2) "Being able to have/get money" See the post by @swiftowner just above you. Having phone payment as an option doesn't prevent me from using my bank or the bank's ATM network, it simply gives me another payment option. When I was in the hospital, I was able to use my phone to have a friend send me new clothes or to have my youngest daughter send me tea. When I went to another hospital, a friend helped set up the ride service because it was two hours away from me. She decided she wanted me to take a better car, so she paid the driver by phone ... from Inner Mongolia. You can see from swiftowner's post, his wife was able to buy him a cup of coffee even though he didn't have the app on his phone. All it does is provide convenience.

3) "we can get our money from the bankomats" Yep, should I want to, I can do that too. I use WeChat and Alipay, both are tied directly to bank cards.

For me, while I *could* use paper money, things like the virus remind me of how much I prefer *not* having to deal with it. I don't have to worry about how much money I need to carry for a given period of time. I don't have to worry about getting counterfeit. I might get mugged and my phone grabbed, but they would still have to break the phone's security and the app's security (sure, they could force me to unlock it, but people have been forced to make ATM withdrawals too and with the phone I'm probably carrying less cash).

As far as privacy, paper money offers an illusion. If you're being tracked, you're on CCTV anyway and your phone company and ISP are probably cooperating with the police. Buying a currywurst on the sly won't really matter. I recall Norway wanted to go paperless because of the grey market economy, but that's taking us far afield from the virus and better off in a new thread.

Its a cultural thing : the people in some countries value privacy much more than a policed society, CCTV being either non-existent or limited in coverage.

That plus the 2013 Cyprus financial crisis, within an EU-country, has cemented the fact that ultimately, the money on your bank account does not belong to you anymore, but to the bank and/or State.

That plus as mentioned by Tabrotar, current negative interest rates makes it more sensible in Europe to simply hold on some cash rather than having it vanish slowly on your bank account.

[xenogear3]

I heard it reported that China has half a billion people in some form of quarantine currently. Surely that can't be right. If they did, it would be tanking the economy hard, having nearly half the population in that state.

Not all business in quarantine cities are stopped.
The government doesn't care about local small business, such as theaters and restaurants.

The biggest concern is the big export factories, such as iphone.
These large companies may move their factories to a different country, and never come back!
(Sounds just like US )

The good news is that many people become rich by selling surgical masks.
The price goes up 10 times.

[Zatheyll]

I heard it reported that China has half a billion people in some form of quarantine currently. Surely that can't be right. If they did, it would be tanking the economy hard, having nearly half the population in that state.

If it is, then the Chinese government must be much much more worried than they are letting on. After all, we know just how important their economy is to them, and for them to be interrupting it to such an extend can't be good for it.

Yes and no. The quarantines in each place are all different. Hubei is on full lockdown where people are only allowed to leave their house once every three days. Where I live in Guangdong, villages and complexes (where 99% of people in the country live in one of the two, suburbs aren't a thing in China) are blocked off except for one entrance, and only residents can enter with proper documents, while still having freedom within the village itself.

[Rennadrel]

I heard it reported that China has half a billion people in some form of quarantine currently. Surely that can't be right. If they did, it would be tanking the economy hard, having nearly half the population in that state.

If it is, then the Chinese government must be much much more worried than they are letting on. After all, we know just how important their economy is to them, and for them to be interrupting it to such an extend can't be good for it.

It's going to tank in the long run, this virus is just helping speed up the process. On the positive, this should start forcing speculation buyers out of North American housing markets.

[Jehct]

Seeing people getting beaten, tied and some of them behaved like animals by government officers are disgusting.
Whatever the reason.
Can't imagine someone try the same in my country. Probably such behavior would start a civil war here.

And now there is a locust thing in Africa and India. They say it will be problem if the locust doesn't return back to desert until April, there may be a food crisis. It is also said there is a small chance it may advance to China.
We will see.

Sorry but this whole situation is a big Nothing Burger. An empty bun which nothing big will happen. 150 million quarantined. This is a regular happening and honestly not a big deal. Its just a flu bro!

[xenogear3]

Sorry but this whole situation is a big Nothing Burger. An empty bun which nothing big will happen. 150 million quarantined. This is a regular happening and honestly not a big deal. Its just a flu bro!

Just wait until you don't get your new iphone/PS5/Xbox this Christmas.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Going about social media it's kind of interesting all the nut job social Darwinist saying this is natural selection or pro porting conspiratorial nonsense.

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Just wait until you don't get your new iphone/PS5/Xbox this Christmas.

No we will just ban people traveling from any East Asian countries unless they are rich and bribe government officials just to be sure, at least that's our recent history, and what many are suggesting online.

[shadowmouse]

Sorry but this whole situation is a big Nothing Burger.

While Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases didn't use the words nothing burger, he did say something quite similar.

Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."

"We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said. "At the same time people are worrying about going to a Chinese restaurant. The threat is (we have) a pretty bad influenza season, particularly dangerous for our children."

Fauci offered advice for people who want to protect against the "real and present danger" of seasonal flu, which also would protect against the hypothetical danger of coronavirus.

"Wash your hands as frequently as you can. Stay away from crowded places where people are coughing and sneezing. If in fact, you are coughing and sneezing cover your mouth," he says.

"You know, all the things that we say each year."

Source: https://news.yahoo.com/top-disease-o...222852299.html

[Stelio Kontos]

Not sure if anyone else posted on this yet.

China Detains Activist Who Accused Xi of Coronavirus Cover-Up

https://dnyuz.com/2020/02/17/china-d...irus-cover-up/

He portrayed China’s leader, Xi Jinping, as hungry for power. He accused Mr. Xi of trying to cover up the coronavirus outbreak in central China. In one of his most daring writings, he urged Mr. Xi to resign, saying, “You’re just not smart enough.”

Then, over the weekend, Xu Zhiyong, a prominent Chinese legal activist, went silent. The authorities in the southern city of Guangzhou detained him on Saturday, according to Mr. Xu’s friends, after he spent nearly two months in hiding. His girlfriend, Li Qiaochu, a social activist, went missing on Sunday, Mr. Xu’s friends said.

The activist is the latest critic to be caught up in Mr. Xi’s far-reaching efforts to limit dissent in China. The crackdown, which has ensnared scores of activists, lawyers, journalists and intellectuals, is likely to intensify as the ruling Communist Party comes under broad attack for its handling of the coronavirus outbreak, one of its biggest political challenges in years.

Mr. Xu, a 46-year-old former university lecturer, has long railed against government corruption and social injustice in China. He went into hiding in December as the police began rounding up human rights activists who met with him in the eastern city of Xiamen.

While in hiding, Mr. Xu continued to publish blunt critiques of Mr. Xi on social media, accusing him of leading a dictatorship.

He also criticized Mr. Xi’s handling of the outbreak in the central province of Hubei that has killed at least 1,770 people in China and sickened more than 70,000. In one of his last writings before he was detained, Mr. Xu mourned the death of a doctor in Wuhan whom the police had silenced after he warned about the virus.

“In their hearts,” Mr. Xu said of party leaders, “there is no right and wrong, no conscience, no bottom line, no humanity.”

Mr. Xu, a firebrand who has spent decades pushing for political reforms, has long clashed with the Chinese government.

He was sentenced to four years in prison in 2014 for “gathering a crowd to disturb public order,” a charge that stemmed from his role organizing the New Citizens Movement, a grass-roots effort against corruption and social injustice in Chinese society.

It is unclear what charges the authorities might bring against Mr. Xu. The circumstances of the disappearance of his girlfriend, Ms. Li, were also ambiguous. The police in Guangzhou did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Mr. Xu’s friends defended his actions.

“It is within the scope of freedom of speech under the Chinese Constitution,” said Hua Ze, an activist based in New Jersey and a friend of Mr. Xu who confirmed his detention.

Faced with growing public anger over the coronavirus outbreak, China’s leader has cited a need to “strengthen the guidance of public opinion,” a term that often refers to blocking independent news reporting and censoring critical comments on Chinese social media.

Many free-speech activists worry that the party, which is concerned about maintaining its control, is tightening the reins of public discourse despite a growing perception that the silencing of doctors and others who tried to raise alarms has enabled the virus to spread more widely.

Two video bloggers who attracted wide attention for their dispatches from Wuhan, the epicenter of the outbreak, have gone missing.

Yaqiu Wang, a China researcher at Human Rights Watch, an advocacy organization, said the detention of Mr. Xu showed that the authorities had no intention of loosening restrictions on speech.

“The Chinese government persists in its old ways: silencing its critics rather than listening to people who promote rights-respecting policies that actually solve problems,” she said.

The post China Detains Activist Who Accused Xi of Coronavirus Cover-Up appeared first on New York Times.

[shadowmouse]

He portrayed China’s leader, Xi Jinping, as hungry for power. He accused Mr. Xi of trying to cover up the coronavirus outbreak in central China. In one of his most daring writings, he urged Mr. Xi to resign, saying, “You’re just not smart enough.”

I can only score that as political "suicide by cop". Given the culture of face, the odds of this not drawing a response are even less than the the odds of someone pissing Trump off not getting investigated by every alphabet soup agency he can issue orders to.

Probably a bigger worry is this story:

An anonymous source familiar with the organization of the events told the South China Morning Post that the meetings would present an unacceptable health risk.

"The health risk of convening the annual sessions early next month would be too high when the coronavirus outbreak has not yet been effectively contained," they said.

"The risk of cross infections would be very high for nearly 8,000 people … as well as staff responsible for administering the meetings, under the same roof of the Great Hall of the People."

Source: https://news.yahoo.com/china-conside...135406519.html

Imagine if Trump were to suspend Congress, close D.C. and maybe postpone the election and you'll have a sense of the implications.

[Jehct]

Just wait until you don't get your new iphone/PS5/Xbox this Christmas.

Not a peasant. I won't be purchasing any of those. ty tho

I will hold my breath because this Nothing Burger is truly tasty.

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Yes. Empty Bun it is. Its just a flu bro.

[Stelio Kontos]

Not a peasant. I won't be purchasing any of those. ty tho

I will hold my breath because this Nothing Burger is truly tasty.

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Yes. Empty Bun it is. Its just a flu bro.

Only peasants use mobiles and video game consoles?

Let me guess, true patrician gentlemen like you just stick to clay tablets and betting on chariot races in the hippodrome?

[sabe]

Just wait until you don't get your new iphone/PS5/Xbox this Christmas.

Yea, many electronic chains may close their shops when there is nothing to sell.

[Muajin76]

Only peasants use mobiles and video game consoles?

Let me guess, true patrician gentlemen like you just stick to clay tablets and betting on chariot races in the hippodrome?

Didn't there used to be an app where you bet on chariots in a hippodrome?:P

[shadowmouse]

Didn't there used to be an app

App? There used to be a board game by AH, Circus Maximus.