[TV] BoJack Horseman

[Gallahadd]

LOVED this half of the season. Really strong opener, and I hope it can carry on at this level (with maybe one "Free Churos" level episode, somewhere towards the end)

But, I just have this feeling. It seems like everything is setting up to bring about a thunderous ruination upo BoJack. There are so many fuses lit, and they all seem to end with BoJack exploding.

Combine this with his genuine attempts to change, and be a better person, and I can only see this season ending one way.

All the bombs go off, BoJacks career implodes. But he doesn't mind. He's grown and he moves passed it all, and for the first time in a long time, he starts to feel the beginnings of genuine happiness.

And then he gets the call, telling him that Diane has killed herself.

He the sinks into a mire, feeling like he's somehow "Gotten away with it" becaus he's not suffering, and he'll blame himself for the loss of his friend. Because, this is BoJack, it was never going to end happily.

[rogueMatthias]

I'm sad it's ending, but also kind of happy that it's ending before going on forever until it's trash.

The "long lost kid" season is normally when they're jumping the shark, but they made it work with Hollyhock.

"Better to be cancelled early, than to see yourself live long enough to become a lumberjack".

But, I just have this feeling. It seems like everything is setting up to bring about a thunderous ruination upo BoJack. There are so many fuses lit, and they all seem to end with BoJack exploding.

Combine this with his genuine attempts to change, and be a better person, and I can only see this season ending one way.

This is the thing. I feel Bojack has genuinely (FINALLY) made progress, and is really starting to make something of himself and actually learnt to think of others. Even just passing on the app information without thinking, or doing the "Crossover episode" rather than just complaining that his set in the museum were smaller - this is huge growth for him.

BUT that doesn't let him off for all the shit he's done. I don't know how much you can blame him for Sarah-Lyn as she was going to go back to that life eventually, but he did cover up his involvement and lied to the police. He did actually try and choke a woman to death as well and that's had a huge impact on her life and, tragically, her career too. Even though he's grown as a person from that, he's still responsible. Should he face repercussions for it?

It seems clear that all this shit is going to massively hit the fan in the next episodes. Having the biggest scandal in his career and all his skeletons let of the closet will be the ultimate test. Will he be able to stay sober throughout the whole thing, or will he go right back again to drink and drugs?

On another point - I really LOVE the intro this season. Each scene seems to be another thing he's ashamed of (Even Herb seems to still weigh on his mind this season). The starry "planetarium" sky over hanging his house and the intro really shows how much Sarah Lynn is still eating him away.

[Halicia]

Just binged the final half yesterday.

Diane is best character. Fight me.

Mr. PB is the guy I'd love to have as my best friend IRL.

Secretariat is awesome. In the top 5 episodes easily.

Todd's probably the worst written character in the show, and even if you made a show exclusively out of his scenes, it would be better than most of the trash on TV.

Spoilery character rant...


Bojack might be dead. I could see his version of heaven as being a little party with his friends all doing well, and him not screwing anything up.

!@#$ Hollyhock.


Spoilery #metoo comments...


I really like how they portrayed Bojack's "comeuppance." It gave a firsthand experience of being metoo'd without the baggage of using a real person, where you'd unconsciously expect some sort of spin on it.

As much as Bojack was attacked for "taking advantage and hurting" innocent and powerless people, at no point did anyone in his expose actually try to *help* anyone, or do anything but cherrypick and present events in a light that served the narrative they wanted for the takedown piece. I really liked how they showed the outrage at Bojack sleeping with Sarahlynn, presenting a 30 year old woman as having no personal agency, while the public outrage instead rewarded her pedobear father. "I gave my life." Bojack did some shitty things to Sarahlynn, but to claim that she had no power simply because she's female is the greatest hypocrisy here... she 100% owns her death even though Bojack facilitated it.

Xerox of a Xerox, what an awesome explanation for someone raised by television. and the lawsuit was just gravy, Bojack nails it by calling out the hypocrisy of society's "values".

I don't know which I can relate to more... Xerox of a Xerox or Diane's frustration that if she can't "use" her damage, then it means she suffered through it for nothing. Just the sort of thing you'd expect a writer or TV-Xerox to have ingrained on them.

Oh, have I mentioned... !@#$ Hollyhock.


Breaking Bad is a wonderful show... but now Bojack easily stands in my top two shows with the Wire.

[mvaliz]

Breaking Bad is a wonderful show... but now Bojack easily stands in my top two shows with the Wire.

Fun trivia I didn't realize until the last season - Todd is actually voiced by Aaron Paul, the same actor from BB who played Jessie Pinkman. You can totally hear Pinkman in his words when you listen now. :P

[Gallahadd]

Fun trivia I didn't realize until the last season - Todd is actually voiced by Aaron Paul, the same actor from BB who played Jessie Pinkman. You can totally hear Pinkman in his words when you listen now. :P

How did you not realise that... I mean, skipping passed the fact that his name is in the credits, he didn't exactly change his voice, for the role .

[mvaliz]

How did you not realise that... I mean, skipping passed the fact that his name is in the credits, he didn't exactly change his voice, for the role .

Who reads the credits? Especially Netflix ones that a) minimize into a corner and b) zoom by so damn fast. :P

And I guess I wasn't as familiar with his voice as I thought I was? or the personality difference. dunno really. :P

[Gallahadd]

Who reads the credits? Especially Netflix ones that a) minimize into a corner and b) zoom by so damn fast. :P

I meant he OPENING credits. He's right there!

[Halicia]

I meant he OPENING credits. He's right there!

I do that all the time in animated movies, I'll recognize that a character's voice is familiar, but I don't pause to think about it.

Which is why its kinda ironic that Todd is my least favorite main character in Bojack.

[Gallahadd]

Which is why its kinda ironic that Todd is my least favorite main character in Bojack.

Tbh, I love the whole cast. I think Todd's season 5 arc (when he randomly became CEO of WTIIN) was a little TOO absurd. However, generally I feel like his hijinks were used to balance out the otherwise incredibly depressing plots. However, I can see why that wouldn't be for everyone. I do think the way they handled his 'Coming out' so to speak, was very well done, though.

[minkage]

So now is all said and done and the show is finished I’m not sure how I feel.
The lead up to the final episode was amazing (my god the view from halfway down) but the final episode was just so weird and I felt largely underwhelmed although I probably had some unrealistic expectations.
Hope this thread provides some visibility to the show and piques some interest for potential new viewers.

[exochaft]

So now is all said and done and the show is finished I’m not sure how I feel.
The lead up to the final episode was amazing (my god the view from halfway down) but the final episode was just so weird and I felt largely underwhelmed although I probably had some unrealistic expectations.

The final episode works on quite a few different levels, but the themes were touched upon throughout the series in various ways. I'd have to rewatch the final episode to give in-depth what I surmise, but I still recall most of what happened. Despite all the drama that builds up, reality is that things tend to unceremoniously change and/or end, and not necessarily in the ways people expect nor desire. I found the ending quite satisfying, as it rather ironically does exactly the opposite of the family sitcom formula: not everything is okay at the end of the day and forgiven/fixed. It's probably one of the more realistic portrayals I've seen of what happens to a person who lets their lives spiral out of control and what happens around them and with their relationships with other people, especially at the end of the episode.

[jackofwind]

Kind of shocked at how little Bojack is talked about around these parts.

Because the show is somewhat niche and also extremely bad.

[rogueMatthias]

Really enjoyed the final episodes. 'The view from halfway down" ... What a terrifying and emotional poem, can't believe it was just written for this show.

The final episode was really bittersweet. It seems like Bojack is starting to turn his life around somewhat and facing up to his mistakes. But at the same time its clear that all his friends (apart from Mr Peanutbutter the loyalest dog) have moved on in their lives now. They're still friends with him, but he's just not going to be a part of their lives anymore and he might not ever really speak to them anymore.

Also I LOVED that they even tied up all their running gags too, from Hollywoob, to Bojack trying Honeydew, to Mr Peanutbutter finally realising he needs to find someone new to make his signs.

[eschatological]

So, with this show ending, I finally binged all six seasons. What a fucking brilliant show. I managed to never hear anything spoilery about it other than people whose taste I respect rave about it for years.

"Free Churro" easily stands out as my best episode in the whole run. That monologue will be taught in acting classes for decades to come, imo, fight me! And then it brilliantly sets up the joke of the whole episode: BoJack is so self-absorbed he doesn't even realize he's giving his eulogy to a room full of lizards, and it isn't even the right wake. And he only realizes it because he finally cedes to his mother's wish to have an open casket. Fucking brutal.

Best storylines were easily the ones with the main women in his life, who I see as: PC, Dianne, Sara Lynn, and his mother. Sara Lynn in particular is crushing. Like, holy shit that storyline.

This show does so many small things well. I know someone mentioned the starry night from the planetarium working its way into the opening credits.....but there's also a moment where BoJack has this hidden bottle of vodka at rehab, and when he looks at it, all he sees are the planetarium stars. It's beautiful, and simultaneously reinforces the escape Sara Lynn always sought at the planetarium, but also kind of runs counter to it, because she was always escaping her drug binges TO the planetarium.....to BoJack, the drug binges ARE the "planetarium" he escapes to.

Then there's the end of season 4, when I legit thought BoJack was gonna kill himself. And then he sees this herd of wild horses, racing across the desert, almost like an old cowboy commercial (except these horses are running a race and are bipedal). And for a moment, he's happy, and as free as they are. And immediately the s5 premiere undercuts it viciously.

The View from Halfway Down was....brilliant. That poem was - well, someone has some serious chops in that writing room. It perfectly encapsulates the trajectory of someone on that depressive downward spiral. Having had friends who've killed themselves, it was especially.....well, wow. The simple fact that Secretariat replaced his actual father in his dream sequence but was never once mentioned, also brilliant. And then the whole debate about whether Sara Lynn was a good person, and what the role of art was, and the sacrifice, and what it brought to people, especially "pop art," in comparison to Crackerjack's sacrifice in WW2 was.....intense. I'm a lawyer in real life, but I've always wanted to be a novelist, and am constantly working on various novels, but never seriously, because I consider my legal work important and worthwhile, whereas a novel, at its best, is just an escape for people. But the sheer beauty in art, or sport, or entertainment, or music....those moments are real, and important, and ultimately I think I agree with Sara Lynn - some people got the show of their lives, for one evening, when they went to her concert...and that'll be one of the biggest, most important things in their lives - not because SL is some important, talismanic figure, but because they lived it, and forgot everything else for the moment.

And then the finale. I kind of do wonder, as someone mentioned before, if BoJack is dead or in some sort of vegatative coma. Todd is in the same suit from the last time he saw him, for example. PC, on the other hand, is in an outfit different from the same exact one she wore in every other episode (barring flashback episodes). That last conversation with Dianne was on point. Her pain because she left after making BoJack promise he was alright and he ended up not being alright, him trying to make clear she didn't have that obligation, that no one had that obligation to him, it was brutality after brutality. And then to end it with BoJack musing about how this might be the last time they ever talked, and Dianne not denying it......and ending the show with them just sitting silently on the roof, not looking at each other. Man, utter desolation. I love one of the closing exchanges:

BoJack: "Yanno, as they say, 'Life's a bitch, and then you die.'"
Dianne: "Yeah, well, life's a bitch, and sometimes you just keep living."

What a fucking bow on the top of it. Kudos all around.

[Drutt]

A true work of art, this show. I consider myself fortunate to have seen it, because I so nearly didn't.

How it is not more widely known than it is, I do not know.

[jzhbee]

A true work of art, this show. I consider myself fortunate to have seen it, because I so nearly didn't.

How it is not more widely known than it is, I do not know.

Animation, specifically in the west, is going to be an immediate turn off for people. A lot of people believe you cannot tell a meaningful, human story without real, human actors.
It doesn't help that a lot of so-called "Adult Cartoons" focus really hard on the comedy, and not at all on storylines or meaningful moments.

Outside of Futurama's occasional tear-jerkers, Western Adult Comedies are very commonly comedic, the shows that pubescent teenagers watched and repeated ad infinitum, like Family Guy, South Park, etc.

And while I appreciate the world building of Season 1, it was also mostly "funny horse man" then "real, human characters".

[eschatological]

Animation, specifically in the west, is going to be an immediate turn off for people. A lot of people believe you cannot tell a meaningful, human story without real, human actors.
It doesn't help that a lot of so-called "Adult Cartoons" focus really hard on the comedy, and not at all on storylines or meaningful moments.

Outside of Futurama's occasional tear-jerkers, Western Adult Comedies are very commonly comedic, the shows that pubescent teenagers watched and repeated ad infinitum, like Family Guy, South Park, etc.

And while I appreciate the world building of Season 1, it was also mostly "funny horse man" then "real, human characters".

While Bojack Horseman is a great, wonderful, emotional dark comedy full of great characters.......it was never the animation that carried it. At least not for me. The show didn't even have that many visual gags. It was just brilliant, top notch writing, and brilliant actors doing the voices. There are a few moving visual pieces.....like seeing that pack of horses race across the desert, or some of the animations in later seasons with blurring the edge of reality, seeing stars in water bottles of vodka, etc.

I think the one thing you can say for the animation was already mentioned in the thread: using anthropomorphic animals for many of the characters helped soften the edges of what would otherwise be a very dark comedy. In fact, I could see Will Arnett, as himself, playing this character of BoJack Horseman...he was made to do a washed up, egocentric actor. It's almost like his GOB role from Arrested Development, except GOB was never really particularly a filthy, disgusting person, just an oblivious one.

[Halicia]

In fact, I could see Will Arnett, as himself, playing this character of BoJack Horseman...he was made to do a washed up, egocentric actor. It's almost like his GOB role from Arrested Development, except GOB was never really particularly a filthy, disgusting person, just an oblivious one.

I think Birdman is pretty close to a "live action Bojack".

Personally, I'd love to see the Secretariat movie.

[eschatological]

I think Birdman is pretty close to a "live action Bojack".

Personally, I'd love to see the Secretariat movie.

Birdman was great, but there's one big difference, imo. Birdman was a character who utterly believed in himself, and his depression was linked to all his glory being in the past and people not really thinking he was this hero figure. Which is very BoJack, except BoJack in reality wasn't ever anything great, and Birdman was, and he knew it.

[Halicia]

Birdman was great, but there's one big difference, imo. Birdman was a character who utterly believed in himself, and his depression was linked to all his glory being in the past and people not really thinking he was this hero figure. Which is very BoJack, except BoJack in reality wasn't ever anything great, and Birdman was, and he knew it.

I won't argue that the characters and their career baggage are different... but I'm not sure how you came to those conclusions about Birdman and Bojack. People immediately recognize Birdman, and he does not consider it glorious. Bojack's career is shown to be equally successful, and goes through a similar struggle.