Regarding Previous Allied Races Come Shadowlands

[Raelbo]

I actually agree with most of this. My main point is that for those trying to get back into the game and want something new to experience (and like leveling) the grind for a new shiny race is too long.

I actually agree. Hence my suggested approach of giving everyone 1 free pass on an allied race.

The problem with simply nerfing the requirements for any of them is that it invalidates, to some degree, the sense of achievement for those who consciously put the effort into getting it. And the more you nerf it, the worse the invalidation. There simply is no satisfactory middle ground, because for players who just want to come back and try the new race, any grind is tedious.

If everyone buying the expansion gets 1 free allied race, then none of the races is actually nerfed, none of the effort is invalidated and newly returning players would still get to play immediately.

[Stricks]

I actually agree. Hence my suggested approach of giving everyone 1 free pass on an allied race.

The problem with simply nerfing the requirements for any of them is that it invalidates, to some degree, the sense of achievement for those who consciously put the effort into getting it. And the more you nerf it, the worse the invalidation. There simply is no satisfactory middle ground, because for players who just want to come back and try the new race, any grind is tedious.

If everyone buying the expansion gets 1 free allied race, then none of the races is actually nerfed, none of the effort is invalidated and newly returning players would still get to play immediately.

If I get Zandalari tomorrow and they nerf it next Tuesday I will say, well shit, but that's good and as it should be. Can't be "back in my day" type of people with WoW! And maybe thge answer is to wait for the new expansion. But in no way IMO should you have to grind for Nightborne for example at this point.

[Azerate]

Allied races were designed to be rewards for in-game activities. These are races one is supposed to work to unlock. I see no reason to remove those requirements or to hand those races for free to everyone.

You still have to grind rep to get Netherwing Drakes from TBC, you still have to grind Argent Tournament dailies for weeks to get related rewards...and so on.

[MrLachyG]

Does anyone know if the Allied Races already available will still need to be unlocked when Shadowlands is released or will the become readily available
to everyone.

While I have all the allied races already (it;s no skin off my back), its gone through enough time where I feel some of these Allied Races might as well be unlocked from the get go come Shadowlands, and maybe give those that unlocked them previously a feat of strength legacy achievement?

Is this something you think they'd do or plan to do when Shadowlands is released?

will they still be available? absolutely. will they make it easier? maybe - I remember the Legion world quests getting a bit of a rep boost so there would be no reason why they couldn't just double the rep gain from all BfA world quests which would make it easier.

as for down the line, we should get Legion timewalking at some point during Shadowlands, probably 9.1 or 9.1.5 which means BfA timewalking will hit in 10.1 or 10.1.5 (probably) - this will make gaining reps a joke, all you have to do is save some badges and buy rep tokens

to be honest anyone who wants the allied races has gotten them already. this will only affect new people and if they are wanting to play an allied race so badly then they will grind it out. just like all the grinds before (raid mounts, argent tournament mounts etc). if people want it badly they will do what they can to get it

[Raelbo]

But in no way IMO should you have to grind for Nightborne for example at this point.

Why not?

As I said, I think there is a meaningful distinction between having access to critical features in the game and having content that allows you to earn rewards. The issue with Allied Races is that they serve both purposes, just not at the same time for the same players.

For a specific type of player what is important is to be able to play the new race without having to go through the rigmarole of unlocking it. For another type of player unlocking that race is content.

So what you have is a predicament wherein helping one player means cutting content for others. The ideal solution, however, needs to be able to meet the requirements of both players, which rules out the idea of nerfing the requirements. Hence my suggested solution.


That being said, I am still not convinced about the driving need for access to most of the allied races. The premise of the need to remove the grind is for a player who managed to miss out on the content when it was current, and is primarily motivated to return to the game in order to play that allied race. To me that just seems contrived to be honest.

I mean, what would make playing a Nightborne so important to someone who didn't actually play through the Nightborne campaign, that it's the only reason they're coming back to the game? That just doesn't make much sense. I would argue that someone who has played through the Nightborne campaign has a far more legitimate case for arguing that playing that race is important to them because they're actually invested in the Nightborne story. Why would someone who didn't bother with Legion be invested in the Nightborne or Highmountain or Lightforged Draenei for example? Yes, those races look cool, but is that really enough to justify "needing" to play them? Does the game really need to cater to such fickle demands?

[Stricks]

Why not?

As I said, I think there is a meaningful distinction between having access to critical features in the game and having content that allows you to earn rewards. The issue with Allied Races is that they serve both purposes, just not at the same time for the same players.

For a specific type of player what is important is to be able to play the new race without having to go through the rigmarole of unlocking it. For another type of player unlocking that race is content.

So what you have is a predicament wherein helping one player means cutting content for others. The ideal solution, however, needs to be able to meet the requirements of both players, which rules out the idea of nerfing the requirements. Hence my suggested solution.


That being said, I am still not convinced about the driving need for access to most of the allied races. The premise of the need to remove the grind is for a player who managed to miss out on the content when it was current, and is primarily motivated to return to the game in order to play that allied race. To me that just seems contrived to be honest.

I mean, what would make playing a Nightborne so important to someone who didn't actually play through the Nightborne campaign, that it's the only reason they're coming back to the game? That just doesn't make much sense. I would argue that someone who has played through the Nightborne campaign has a far more legitimate case for arguing that playing that race is important to them because they're actually invested in the Nightborne story. Why would someone who didn't bother with Legion be invested in the Nightborne or Highmountain or Lightforged Draenei for example? Yes, those races look cool, but is that really enough to justify "needing" to play them? Does the game really need to cater to such fickle demands?

Because not everyone cares as much about the lore as you are saying and simply want a fresh look. Actually that's the majority of players I would say.

If playing different looking races didn't matter let's just all be orcs or humans. In vanilla I somehow cared about being an orc without playing through a campaign.

[Protean]

Does anyone know if the Allied Races already available will still need to be unlocked when Shadowlands is released or will the become readily available
to everyone.

While I have all the allied races already (it;s no skin off my back), its gone through enough time where I feel some of these Allied Races might as well be unlocked from the get go come Shadowlands, and maybe give those that unlocked them previously a feat of strength legacy achievement?

Is this something you think they'd do or plan to do when Shadowlands is released?

They should give a free unlock token for returning / new players. It would be the simple fix. Some people would flip their shit, but really why would anyone want to accomodate toxic people who only care about themselves?

[Omedon]

The future proofing for both pathfinder and allied races are the account bound timewalking rep tokens which arrive like clockwork two expansions out...

... is what I’d expect Blizzard’s stance is here.

[Azerate]

Because not everyone cares as much about the lore as you are saying and simply want a fresh look. Actually that's the majority of players I would say.

If playing different looking races didn't matter let's just all be orcs or humans. In vanilla I somehow cared about being an orc without playing through a campaign.

It's not about caring about the lore.

Some things in the game are just rewards for doing something, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Just because something is a playable race, doesn't mean you are entitled to have it without any work required.

[Stricks]

It's not about caring about the lore.

Some things in the game are just rewards for doing something, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Just because something is a playable race, doesn't mean you are entitled to have it without any work required.

Yeah I covered that earlier. If Blizzard is hyping an expansion because of playable allied races and that's a reason you purchase the game then they should be playable. If they are behind a small grind that's fine but exalted is too much for someone purchasing the game fresh.

Anyways, this will be my last post on the subject because as expected we will just never see eye-to-eye and that's fine. I do believe Blizzard will eventually side with my train of thought as I can't imagine they would have you grinding content 3 expansions old for a race. Hopefully I am right.

[Orby]

They should give a free unlock token for returning / new players. It would be the simple fix. Some people would flip their shit, but really why would anyone want to accomodate toxic people who only care about themselves?

I agree with this actually. My sister is a returning player who came back this month (which is what made me make this thread), she hasn't played since Mists of Pandaria and she really liked the new races and when I told her how to get them it kind of left her deflated again lol.