mmigration: No visas for low-skilled workers, government says

[Blur4stuff]

I can't speak to what UK citizens would do, but when crackdowns like this happened in the US it led to crops rotting in the field because white citizens wouldn't do the work.

[zenkai]

I can't speak to what UK citizens would do, but when crackdowns like this happened in the US it led to crops rotting in the field because white citizens wouldn't do the work.

Or farmers having to pay American workers a better wage, which forces big time corporations like Tyson to pay farmers more which leads you to having to pay 10 more cents a lb for your chicken.

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Yep.

They'd be a pretty crappy lawyer, but that's my point.

Food service is seen as unskilled labor because the people working in that field are not given adequate time or resources to develop skills, and thinking otherwise is clearly the perspective of someone whose entire experience with food service or any form of unskilled labor has been as an end user.

Basically: check your privilege.

So in other words you don't understand the definition of unskilled labor is. This is like saying a heart surgeon could teach you to open someone up and fix a heart, you might be a crappy heart surgeon and 100% of your patients will die but you could be trained in less than a week.

Nice logic.

[Edge-]

There literally is no profession on the planet that meets this definition.

Uh...dude...really?

Astronaut?
Rocket engineer?
Surgeon?
Lawyer?
Pilot?

I mean, I could go on, but this is a patently ludicrous statement.

[Elegiac]

So in other words you don't understand the definition of unskilled labor is. This is like saying a heart surgeon could teach you to open someone up and fix a heart, you might be a crappy heart surgeon and 100% of your patients will die but you could be trained in less than a week.

Nice logic.

I'm literally saying that food service workers in the US are not given adequate training creating a perception of that profession being "unskilled".

Reading comprehension.

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Uh...dude...really?

Astronaut?
Rocket engineer?
Surgeon?
Lawyer?
Pilot?

I mean, I could go on, but this is a patently ludicrous statement.

*facepalm*

I did not say that these things didn't require skill. I'm disputing the notion that unskilled labour is actually a thing since "unskilled labor" is synonymous with labor for which people are not given training commensurate to their expected work output.

[Edge-]

*facepalm*

I did not say that these things didn't require skill. I'm disputing the notion that unskilled labour is actually a thing since "unskilled labor" is synonymous with labor for which people are not given training commensurate to their expected work output.

It literally is though. Yes, there are still skills involved, but the knowledge and training required varies extensively.

Know what training I had before being a bagger at a grocery store? A few hours one day, and that was enough to teach me all the nuts and bolts that were core to the job. And after a week of "on the job training", I could pretty much do everything required of me because there's not that much that goes into bagging groceries, helping people find things, helping people to their car, and occasionally helping with restocking shelves at the direction of others. I was "competent" within the first few days because there's just not that much to the job.

I couldn't do the job I do now with under a weeks training, even at an entry level. When we hire new folks, it takes far more than a single week of training to teach them the basics of their jobs, much less get them remotely competent at it.

You can skate by with competence in a ton of lower skilled jobs with minimal training. You may not be great at it, but you can do the job. Yes, unskilled labor is actually a thing. I'd ague it's a misnomer given that there are always skills involved, but it's the term we have and it fits.

[Elegiac]

You can skate by with competence in a ton of lower skilled jobs with minimal training. You may not be great at it, but you can do the job.

Literally what I just said, dude. I'm saying that's a bad thing and the result of Americans being geared into a mindset where they accept low quality products and services that they don't particularly enjoy, but at least they're cheap.

[dribbles]

Do you think this is a good idea?

Excellent idea. Instead of discriminating against, for example, people from India in favour of people from Romania, it treats everyone in the world as equal when they want to come to the UK.

It doesn't go far enough, the next question must be what to do with the 70% of existing EU immigrants who would not qualify to stay in the UK under the new scheme rules.

[Themius]

Or farmers having to pay American workers a better wage, which forces big time corporations like Tyson to pay farmers more which leads you to having to pay 10 more cents a lb for your chicken.

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So in other words you don't understand the definition of unskilled labor is. This is like saying a heart surgeon could teach you to open someone up and fix a heart, you might be a crappy heart surgeon and 100% of your patients will die but you could be trained in less than a week.

Nice logic.

Farmers tried raising wages sometimes DOUBLE but Americans did not want to do the jobs.

[Elegiac]

Excellent idea. Instead of discriminating against, for example, people from India in favour of people from Romania, it treats everyone in the world as equal when they want to come to the UK.

It doesn't go far enough, the next question must be what to do with the 70% of existing EU immigrants who would not qualify to stay in the UK under the new scheme rules.

Why stop there? Why not get rid of all the English citizens who don't meet this skill threshold.

[Draco-Onis]

Excellent idea. Instead of discriminating against, for example, people from India in favour of people from Romania, it treats everyone in the world as equal when they want to come to the UK.

It doesn't go far enough, the next question must be what to do with the 70% of existing EU immigrants who would not qualify to stay in the UK under the new scheme rules.

Yea it's a genius idea it's not like the UK is at full employment and bleeding foreign workers both skilled and unskilled to the point where you have a severe shortage of workers....oh wait you are.

[starlord]

seems like a bad idea, but thats never stopped nationalism.

[DKjaigen]

Good. This is a boon for the lower working class people . When you are not number 5912 that can be easily replaced perhaps certain places are forced to improve working conditions and wages to attract people. Because FFS Britain

https://www.channel4.com/news/ive-sa...side-jd-sports
https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/07/jd-sp...ouses-9426277/

[ati87]

if you can teach someone your job in less than a week without a college education, it's low skill

Within that definition every job would be a low skilled since you can teach almost everybody the basics of the job within a week with some exceptions.
Again, between consultant work, sales (including Account manager) and current day marketing how many actual high skilled jobs are actually high skilled.

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Uh...dude...really?

Astronaut?
Rocket engineer?
Surgeon?
Lawyer?
Pilot?

I mean, I could go on, but this is a patently ludicrous statement.

Exceptions prove the rule though. Majority of people aren't engineers that actually go and build rockets or are surgeons.
Allot of good paying (not high paying) jobs add less value then the low paying jobs in my opinion. Biggest difference though is that society looks at these two categories and calls one ''low skilled'' even though most people wouldn't be able to do that job for longer then a week before given up.

[Bodonius]

Depends on a lot of factors.

If you have a lot of low education locals struggling to get a job, then it is a great idea.
If you have some, then it will be good for them and bad for everyone else.
If you have very little of them, then it is a bad idea.

Yepp, have the same opinion.

[ati87]

if you can teach someone your job in less than a week without a college education, it's low skill

You can teach most entree jobs to people regardless of education. Only one I would really agree with is hands on job where a large part of the education is learning by doing it (nurse, car mechanic) but then again those that follow that education are also without a degree the first time they do the work.

[tankbug]

At this rate, the "cheap labor" will be coming from the UK

[Zaydin]

At this rate, the "cheap labor" will be coming from the UK

Kind of funny that the Brexiteers don't seem to realize just how screwed Brexit will make the UK in the long run. Do they really think that a comparatively tiny island nation of like 65 million has the clout to negotiate the EU, US, China, India, etc?

I hope dribbles likes American chlorine washed chicken because the Trump administration is demanding that the UK open up its markets to crap like that to BoJo.

[d00mGuArD]

Kind of funny that the Brexiteers don't seem to realize just how screwed Brexit will make the UK in the long run. Do they really think that a comparatively tiny island nation of like 65 million has the clout to negotiate the EU, US, China, India, etc?

I hope dribbles likes American chlorine washed chicken because the Trump administration is demanding that the UK open up its markets to crap like that to BoJo.

Yes they do have the clout to negotiate. Because after the 4 you mentioned the next biggest economies on the planet are Japan and UK. Unless you think those 4 will only trade with each other.

[Kiri]

Yes they do have the clout to negotiate. Because after the 4 you mentioned the next biggest economies on the planet are Japan and UK. Unless you think those 4 will only trade with each other.

I think their point was who has the bigger pull in those negotiations due to size, less that they would negotiate with them at all.
And when you look at comparative size there you see that while the UK is coming up behind those blocs and countries in ranking, it is significantly behind in size. Even Japan, in most of the rankings I've seen, hovers around having almost twice the UK's share, with the others being way higher. If you look at who dictates the terms of a deal, it is usually not the much smaller party.

[zenkai]

Farmers tried raising wages sometimes DOUBLE but Americans did not want to do the jobs.

citation needed

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You can teach most entree jobs to people regardless of education. Only one I would really agree with is hands on job where a large part of the education is learning by doing it (nurse, car mechanic) but then again those that follow that education are also without a degree the first time they do the work.

You must have never worked in a professional field in your life if you really believe this.