Shadowlands Level Squish and Old Raids

[Mirishka]

First post here.

So I’m curious what does the new 1-60 squish mean for old raids? Things I’m interested in specifically are xmog, item scalling and so on. If I level 1-50 in WoTLK or BC, do you think if I got gear from the last raid in the respective xpac it would be viable until my mid 50s? Kind of how BIS BFA gear should last a few levels into the next xpac. And if my theory is right, shouldn’t that mean that each xpacs raid should ramp up in difficulty and potentially make it hard to run for xmog at the new max level 60?

From the official site:



So while the specifics are unknown, they have already clarified that we will absolutely be able to smash our way through outdated stuff as we do now.

[Aresk]

Imo they should do their best to have the 9.0 patch up significantly earlier than the Shadowlands launch just to give them time to get everything working. Plus it will keep altoholics busy for quite a while.

My only concern with moving the patch earlier is that it also ends a lot of content (e.g. AotC achievements are disabled, the new vendor mount will be retired to the BMAH). I definitely don't think they should shorten this patch more than they did for other major content patches in BfA.

[Aphrel]

They could, but they'll fix it so that's nothing to worry about. Yeah sure "there's stuff they haven't fixed" but afaik there's no collector stuff that's broken.

i fully expect there to be years be4 they realize players cant solo ghuun due to orbs etc

[Tech614]

And yet they said it would actually be faster to level.

This is literally irrelevant. Total xp needed to hit max level changes all the time with almost every xpac and even sometimes during an xpac, nobody was talking about the speed of leveling.

And you literally think there is a stat squish still? Yea, don't bother quoting me if you don't understand what is being said or how the level squish works since it's already been laid out and isn't a secret. I won't bother replying to any retort suggesting it hasn't.

[Schizoide]

The videos from Blizzcon showing players with 100k health at level 50 (equivalent of 120 today) do indicate a stat squish, yes. Of course they may have been templates hacked together just for the demo, it was reportedly a very early demo.

[huth]

The videos from Blizzcon showing players with 100k health at level 50 (equivalent of 120 today) do indicate a stat squish, yes. Of course they may have been templates hacked together just for the demo, it was reportedly a very early demo.

Actually, they prove there isn't one. Gear had about the same stats as on live, with the most likely source of deviation being differing amounts of level gained stats, which could simply be unfinished.

The test characters just had uniformly terrible gear.

[Raugnaut]

I have a question regarding all this.

Everyone appears to assume that there is just going to be a level squish, not a stat squish as well.

Why do you think this?

To me, if you are squishing levels, you will also be squishing stats to make them the same or there abouts to that level. I don't get where this assumption our health, AP, Int, etc is going to remain as it is.

Because stats are tied to item level. We barely get ANY Stats from leveling these days. Essentially, a lvl 120 now has roughly 1-1.5k of both stamina and main stat, depending on class and spec. We get an additonal 20k stamina from gear, and roughly 10k main stat from gear as well.

We also saw the numbers on the alpha footage during blizzcon, and despite being lvl squished, health and damage numbers were similar to what we have now.

At most, we will lose ~6-800 stamina/agility, as well as the bonus health from stamina scaling that currently happens upon reaching lvl 80.

[rhorle]

This is literally irrelevant. Total xp needed to hit max level changes all the time with almost every xpac and even sometimes during an xpac, nobody was talking about the speed of leveling.

So if it changes all the time then how are they just splitting the current amount amongst 50 levels instead of 120? Your statement indicates it isn't changing. You keep making baloney statements and then ignoring them to argue as if you said something completely else.

And you literally think there is a stat squish still? Yea, don't bother quoting me if you don't understand what is being said or how the level squish works since it's already been laid out and isn't a secret. I won't bother replying to any retort suggesting it hasn't.

If you are not even going to attribute the right stuff to the right people maybe it is you who shouldn't be quoting. I don't think there is going to be a state squish but I do think stats will change. Because reducing levels would naturally decrease stats with out a squish being needed. There is no reason to bump all the lower levels up to new stat levels just to keep the "old 120" the same exact stats.

It hasn't been laid out. Because no one knows who it will actually work in implementation. The demo wasn't a 1 for 1 translation. All of their statements have been on the "general" side of the how the systems will work. And you have been hanging around these forums long enough to know that stuff changes in development. But instead of allowing for that you are being stubborn for no other reason then because you can.

[munkeyinorbit]

Oh my sweet summer child.

If blizzard decided to cancel raiding I would suspect the outrage would still be less than fucking with the trasmog crowd.

- - - Updated - - -

The videos from Blizzcon showing players with 100k health at level 50 (equivalent of 120 today) do indicate a stat squish, yes. Of course they may have been templates hacked together just for the demo, it was reportedly a very early demo.

More like a stat stretch. All of my non tank toons had 60k at 120. What is this bs?

[Yarathir]

Stuff only scales to your level if you're in Chromie time, that's what Blizzard explained. If you're not, it will scale to what it was before, just squished. So Classic content, which normally caps at 60 now, will now cap at 25 or some number close to it that they decide is best for it. Unless you've got Chromie time enabled, in which case it'll scale up to 50.

Raids are probably going to stay the way they are now.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, they prove there isn't one. Gear had about the same stats as on live, with the most likely source of deviation being differing amounts of level gained stats, which could simply be unfinished.

The test characters just had uniformly terrible gear.

Yeah. The demo characters were in Uldir-ilvl gear with roughly Uldir-ilvl stats.

There is no stat squish announced and no indication of one at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

They said 60-70% faster

Seems like an understatement by them.
According to the very system they outline, you can level from 10 (where you are after leaving the starting zone) to 50 in just one expansion worth of content. That means 10-50 by just doing Tiragarde Sound, Drustvar and Stormsong Valley. Or 1-50 by just doing the Legion leveling zones.

[Drusin]

Seems like an understatement by them.
According to the very system they outline, you can level from 10 (where you are after leaving the starting zone) to 50 in just one expansion worth of content. That means 10-50 by just doing Tiragarde Sound, Drustvar and Stormsong Valley. Or 1-50 by just doing the Legion leveling zones.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just providing my source and clarifying that he said it's from 1-50 that's 60 - 70% faster

edit: links don't start at the time D: skip to 18:10.

[Yarathir]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just providing my source and clarifying that he said it's from 1-50 that's 60 - 70% faster

edit: links don't start at the time D: skip to 18:10.

Yeah, you're right. That is exactly what he said and I agree with you.

Just that their words seem like an understatement in my opinion. Appreciate the attempt to clarify, though.

[schwarzkopf]

Unlike previous squishes, this squish isn't a power squish.

It is pretty much just a display update.

[Zmagoslav]

Unlike previous squishes, this squish isn't a power squish.

It is pretty much just a display update.

You do realize this doesn't necessarily make much sense, do you?
Old raids, as end of an expansion content, will be tuned for end-of-expansion levels... which is effectively going to be level 50, come shadowlands.

I very much doubt the power-creep from 50 to 60 is going to be as strong as the one we currently have from 60/70/80/90 to 120.
So in a sense; yes, we can expect to lose some power; but that will hardly matter.

[huth]

You do realize this doesn't necessarily make much sense, do you?
Old raids, as end of an expansion content, will be tuned for end-of-expansion levels... which is effectively going to be level 50, come shadowlands.

I very much doubt the power-creep from 50 to 60 is going to be as strong as the one we currently have from 60/70/80/90 to 120.
So in a sense; yes, we can expect to lose some power; but that will hardly matter.

No, he's perfectly accurate. We're staying exactly as powerful at 50 as we are now at 120. Your confusion comes from adding level 60 values into the mix.

[MrLachyG]

The videos from Blizzcon showing players with 100k health at level 50 (equivalent of 120 today) do indicate a stat squish, yes. Of course they may have been templates hacked together just for the demo, it was reportedly a very early demo.

was it a fresh 120? cause when my toons hit 120 that was about what they had in terms of HP

[huth]

was it a fresh 120? cause when my toons hit 120 that was about what they had in terms of HP

They were wearing about 8.0 level 120 greens equivalent gear. So yes.

[derpkitteh]

From the official site:

[IMG]https://images2.imgbox.com/bc/29/WyTW1ge1_o.png[IMG]

So while the specifics are unknown, they have already clarified that we will absolutely be able to smash our way through outdated stuff as we do now.

wait, what? when did they change it to 60? it was 70 at blizzcon.

i could have sworn... i'm getting mandela'd.

[Mirishka]

wait, what? when did they change it to 60? it was 70 at blizzcon.

Nah, its been 60 since they announced it. They said we would be squished to 50 and level back up to 60 in Shadowlands.

On the very first day of Blizzcon my guild was like 'wow so like vanilla all over again' because of that number.

[derpkitteh]

Nah, its been 60 since they announced it. They said we would be squished to 50 and level back up to 60 in Shadowlands.

On the very first day of Blizzcon my guild was like 'wow so like vanilla all over again' because of that number.

guess i just dyslexia'd or something similar, turned it to 70. i remember asking why they'd go 70 instead of 60 when they talked about it.