Please no more AP grind, no Netherlight / no Azerite, No Essences / No Corruption

[themaster24]

Oh I see what you mean now. The thing it, Path of Titans was slated for Cata (if I'm not mistaken) when the game was handled by a VERY different team with very different mindset, goals and management.

A Path of Titan like system would be just fine, as long as it's not tied to an item that you eventually get rid of..

That's what was intriguing about how they proposed the system. It would either grow or add new options as the game went on. There were a lot of utility options, like faster bandaging or reduced bleed duration, in addition to more direct power increases. It likely would have seen additional options within an xpac, and expand slots with a new xpac.

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Oh no you can only raid on 3 characters.....

Bold of you to presume that "mess around with" meant raid. I only raid on my main, I don't bother raiding with alts, and never really have, outside of the odd edge case several xpacs ago when it was to help a friend. So this isn't an issue of how many characters I can raid with. This is about how the game can make it feel punitive to have alts at max level at all (imo).

[kaminaris]

You've done AP world quests and emissaries over the course of the expansion - with the only incentive being to increase your neck level right? That's a grind my friend

Please use the actual meaning of words when discussing topics, might be a good idea to learn what those words mean. You said the AP grind wasn't a grind, then literally pointed out how it is a grind. Good one

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Last I checked you weren't forced to do AP world quests or AP emissaries

And I didn't. Haven't done a single emissary for 8 months.
The average of world quests done this expansions is like 10 per month. Basically only by accident.
Most WQ's I've done was when there was a blue upgrade stone for battle pets.

Neck level 78, couple of mythic bosses killed.
I am sometimes doing island expeditions 3x week but because I moderately like it.
Otherwise 90% of my AP income is from raids and M+, islands, all the stuff I like.

The rest is from getting new reps to revered. But I already stopped doing these quests once I got the essence.

Come at me bro.

[Dakara]

Most of my friends/guildies who I speak to about Showlands seem to share the same opinion as myself. We're willing to give Blizzard another chance but if it turns out to be another "daily chore expansion" then we're done.

There's simply far too many daily/weekly chores in current WOW and many of us just want to play the game, be it M+, PvP or Raids. The constant upkeep of expansion systems has taken its toll.

Anecdotal evidence of course, but I gather many players feel the same way.

[Voidwielder]

They announced similiar systems like 4 months ago, you're late.

[BeepBoo]

No - did absolutely no AP grind since BfA launched, 0, null, nada, none.

I did watch other people choose to do it though (they got to 80 2 weeks ahead of me - OMG) - but I just decided to play the game as designed.

You need to realize people like me exist where doing anything other than playing content I actually want to (which consists of raids and occasional m+) is considered a "grind" by virtue of the fact that it is a chore.

If I have to do:

Any islands
Any emissaries
Any world quests
Any overworld dailies


*AT ALL* to stay competitively placed, there is a grind and I will complain about it and agree with OP.

[msdos]

I took a break before 8.3 and when I came back I had to furiously play non-stop, aka, grind to get my neck to 75 to not be on bottom on charts.

People who are saying there is no grind are talking about if you have the time and will to completely stay up to date with all the daily chores this game presents you with from day one. They'll say the same thing about flying and the essences.
You have to do rep grinds for like every single thing now. The only time it isn't a grind is if you enjoy world quests, never plan on taking a break and never plan on playing more than 1 or 2 characters. Great.

[valky94]

Last I checked you weren't forced to do AP world quests or AP emissaries

by following that logic, doing anything in the game is a grind, m+, raiding, battlegrounds, arenas, leveling alts. etc.

[Daffan]

These grinds exist as a natural time gate.

Otherwise there would be nothing to do.

Casuals already complained that gearing was too hard so they put in welfare/catchup.

[Aleksej89]

Its the cheapest lowest effort brainless content possible.
Which seems to be the only kind of content blizzard is making these years...

[Elias01]

And what exactly are we going to do in wow without all of that world content?

[huth]

You need to realize people like me exist where doing anything other than playing content I actually want to (which consists of raids and occasional m+) is considered a "grind" by virtue of the fact that it is a chore.

If I have to do:

Any islands
Any emissaries
Any world quests
Any overworld dailies


*AT ALL* to stay competitively placed, there is a grind and I will complain about it and agree with OP.

That still doesn't make it a grind. A chore you don't want to do, sure, but that isn't a grind.

[Elias01]

Except if you're actively raiding, a lot of this stuff is unnecessary since you're going to stay subbed to raid. PvP players should have more PvP stuff to do. M+ players like staying in dungeons.

There's no need to have the garbage systems if you just improve the good ones that people enjoy. If anything, the constant grind burns people out faster. If they were smart, they'd remove all that shit. You want people playing your games longer? Cut out the busy work and add more fun things. Sure they may not be logged in nearly as much, but if they still pay for their sub, what difference does it make to you? You're still being paid the same to add *LESS* things in!

Majority of players do not raid and also do not run mythic+ so what those peole are going to do after finishing LFR?

[Adamas102]

TIL that playing the game = grinding

Playing THIS game? Yeah, it's a grind. Repetitive tasks for incremental progression. It's what the whole game is built on.

[Kalisandra]

Please Blizzard, for the love of all that's holy, STOP with the BS systems introduced in BfA and Legion.

-Get rid of Azerite and AP grinds
-No more Netherlight Crucible type crap
-No Azerite traits shit gear, that can't be swapped to different specs like old Tier gear
-No Essences
-No Corruption
-No Table mission crap

STOP it already. All of these things sucked so bad, and are just such a stupid pointless grind. Go back to gearing up through Dungeons first, then Raids second. You want to gear up, you run a Normal dungeon, then get better gear in a Heroic dungeon, then better gear again in a Mythic dungeon. You want even better gear, run a Heroic Raid, and you want the BiS gear you run Mythic Raids. That's it. No fucking AP grind, no Artifact weapon. No Corruption bullshit.

Have tokens or badges that drop off bosses in Raids, that you then purchase gear from Raid NPC vendors in the main city.

You're suggesting dropping high-end 5-mans as an alternative progression to raids? That's not going to sit well with a lot of the player base. I was with you till that point - gearing via 5-mans and then raids is fine, as long as the top end of 5-mans (m+ at the moment) is not expected as part of the gearing for raids. Otherwise you get lots of nromal to heroic raiders grinding out 5-mans day after day, and I for one always hated that.

[Philomene]

Please Blizzard, for the love of all that's holy, STOP with the BS systems introduced in BfA and Legion.

-Get rid of Azerite and AP grinds
-No more Netherlight Crucible type crap
-No Azerite traits shit gear, that can't be swapped to different specs like old Tier gear
-No Essences
-No Corruption
-No Table mission crap

STOP it already. All of these things sucked so bad, and are just such a stupid pointless grind. Go back to gearing up through Dungeons first, then Raids second. You want to gear up, you run a Normal dungeon, then get better gear in a Heroic dungeon, then better gear again in a Mythic dungeon. You want even better gear, run a Heroic Raid, and you want the BiS gear you run Mythic Raids. That's it. No fucking AP grind, no Artifact weapon. No Corruption bullshit.

Have tokens or badges that drop off bosses in Raids, that you then purchase gear from Raid NPC vendors in the main city.

Design the class and specs so good from the start of the new expansion, that none of these stupid grindy systems are even needed whatsoever, go back to something similar to the MoP and WoD class type builds and systems

This video sums up a lot of my thinking on the current state of game ( it's not WoW MMO anymore but a ARPG like Diablo instead )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A86A9s_IEQg

These craptastic systems are in the game for a reason, it farms MAU for them. No chance in hell there won't be some similar shit in the game in Shadowlands.

Nice, first answer and the thread could have been closed

[Speedlance]

I've always wondered why there has to be anything to do at max lvl all the time? I really enjoy classic because I can log in, do a few dungeons and some raids then go play something else. Feeling forced to log on everyday really turns it off for me greatly as I want to play more then just wow.

[valky94]

Yes and No. A grind is doing a repetitive similar content for a goal - the best way to farm AP is AP world quests/ emissaries or islands. All of that is similar content and you need to do a lot of it.

Let's say you do 5 dungeons a day, that's also a grind, but many people don't do that many - and you could argue the experience of doing dungeons is more varied than islands. Plus you get rewarded per dungeons normally - is it a grind if you typically get an item every 1-2 dungeons? Or every raid? Difference is with AP, there's no apparent reward. You might need to do 20 world quests or 10 islands before you unlocked your next trait etc

noone is forcing you to do 20 wqs a day or 10 islands a day lol

[Doffen]

by following that logic, doing anything in the game is a grind, m+, raiding, battlegrounds, arenas, leveling alts. etc.

Indeed, appearently I am grinding AP when having fun doing raids and mythic+. The new things we learn everyday.

[vsb]

Azerite Power was a good iteration. It's a shame that they decided to take a step back in Shadowlands after figuring out a proper game system. 30% coefficient every week means that difference between hardcore nolifers and casual raidlogger will be very small. Catchup for alts and new players is very efficient.

Having some option of post-cap progression is not a bad thing IMO. But it progression should be continuous for the entire addon, rather than resetted and complemented with additional systems every patch.

[Aliven]

Except they already confirmed there isn't an artifact that you grind AP for, and that there's a weekly valor cap. There will PROBABLY be something akin to these old features but the entirety of the LITTLE they actually showed at Blizzcon was "it's not BFA"

Did OP actually watch Blizzcon? I doubt it. Or maybe he did and still wanted to just bitch.

No no you see it is not ap it is ap (anima power, totally different!) so they are gud bois now!

Also we totally dont need to grind torghast to upgrade legendary mandatory for all game styles, no sir, absolutely.

And we dont need to grind and regrind covenants, nope, its not like they give new abilities or something and will be buffed and rebuffed every so often so we need to change them to be optimal and grind again, phew, good they dont do that.

Seriously, Shadowlands seems like a more Promiselands am i right?!