Nevada Caucus 2020 - MegaThread

[Kaleredar]

And the exact same thing will happen if we sacrifice our souls to elect some Trump-lite.

But they're not Trump-lite.

This has way bigger ramifications for the future of American governance than whether some stupid rich people get to continue to be stupid rich for another four years or whether they have to help pay for someone's college.... and continue to be stupid rich anyway.

We have one thing Republicans don't right now: souls. We can choose to keep them, or we can sell them like the Republicans did. We still might not win if we sell our souls. There's no guarantee that running a "moderate friendly", "never Trumper Republican" DINO is going to win us the election. YOU CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT. I can't promise you Bernie is going to win. You can't promise me he's going to lose.

Except none of these candidates are as bad as Trump. Not even remotely. Saying shit like that really serves to lighten how bad Trump is for the country.

And you can't even promise me that your DINO saviour is going to be any better! Or not get cock-blocked at every corner by a Republican Senate!

I fully expect any democratic president to be cock-blocked by a republican senate at every turn, Bernie especially.

But the removal of Trump and the shattering blow to the Republican party will have been dealt.

YOU CANT PROMISE ME ANYTHING. All you've got is "we may pick up some moderate Republicans if we run raptor Jesus."

I can promise you that win or lose with Bernie, we stood for someone and something right up till the end. You can't even promise me that. You've got nothing. Your approach has nothing. You have nothing.

I'm not promising you anything. I'm merely advising people on the stupidity of cutting off one's nose to spite their face.

Here it is again: just like Skroe, "if you give us what we want, you might get what you want at some undefined point in the future."

I'd rather have that then "I will actively work to destroy everything you want," and if the vote comes down to being between the two... I know which one I'm voting for.

Again, opting out of voting doesn't mean the world doesn't apply to you.

You've had what you want for decades and it's the same line: keep giving you want you want, and maybe we'll give you some crumbs of what you want eventually.

I've not gotten what I want "for decades," as a matter of fact. I didn't get a president Gore, president Kerry, or President Clinton.

Hey, I'm voting for whoever gets the big (D) here too. But you and Skroe can't sit there with straight faces and tell me that the guy who is absolutely demolishing the first couple primaries is going to suddenly turn into a gigantic flop in the general. The math doesn't work that way.

Like I said, I don't have as grim an outlook on Bernie's chances as Skroe does.

But you don't have to convince democrats to vote for Bernie at the end of the day. Trump wont be slinging mud trying to paint Bernie as a socialist boogeyman in the mind of democrats.

Bolded for emphasis, see, this is the problem and why we don't listen to your lot anymore. You think we're supporting this guy because he's full of buzzwords? Fuck have you not seen Pete up on the stage? That guy's a living buzzword! We're not supporting your guys because of what I wrote above, it's not that they just don't check the right boxes, it's that they don't check any boxes. They're empty husks of a political shell game.

I think a lot of people are eschewing the other candidates, up to the point of saying "I won't vote for them if they don't meet my progressive quota."

I think any True progressive would be pretty damn invested in having Trump not be president, and going to any lengths in the electoral process to ensure that is not the case. Some people here... are not terribly interested in ensuring Trump isn't president. Trump being president is an outcome they're okay with. Which... really isn't very progressive.

I'll vote for whoever gets the fucking (D) at the end of the day,

Then you're indeed smarter and more prescient than some of the other people around here.

but yes, I am absolutely going to seize the opportunity to push something a little bit more than "lets go back in time 4 years and pretend this didn't happen".

If you're laying in a ditch with your legs cut off, you should really be working to get back to a time when you didn't have your legs cut off, instead of planning on how you're going to run a marathon.

I understand the desire to push the democratic party in a more progressive direction. But I also understand that is not something that can be done rapidly, nor is that something that is best attempted while fighting from behind.

I won't eschew a victory of an inch because it wasn't a mile.

[Skroe]

Then shut the hell up. If they have no value then you can't derive anything from them. Victory? Failure? If they have no meaning they have no meaning. You'd be here crowing about the victory of your raptor jesus if it was Biden or Bloomberg in the lead in these primaries. So take a seat.


Ah yes, I disagree with you, therefore I am a do-nothing failure.

JFC it's no wonder I don't give two flying fucks what you think.

No, I called you out on your do-nothing bullshit, and that's the end of it. You're welcome for my contributions by the way.

You have a problem with this country and it's course. Do something about it for a change instead of just bitching about it. You... and actually *waves at MMO-OT progressives * the lot of you could have joined an anti-Trump PAC or a campaign at any point in the last 3 years. I did it 2 months after Trump was elected. The lot of you did nothing. A few did. Most didn't.

Why the fuck not, fair-weather liberals.?

Voting is the bare minimum. Do more or get lost. Because you haven't done enough. Not nearly.

[Yoshingo]

No, I called you out on your do-nothing bullshit, and that's the end of it. You're welcome for my contributions by the way.

You have a problem with this country and it's course. Do something about it for a change instead of just bitching about it. You... and actually *waves at MMO-OT progressives * the lot of you could have joined an anti-Trump PAC or a campaign at any point in the last 3 years. I did it 2 months after Trump was elected. The lot of you did nothing. A few did. Most didn't.

Can you kindly fuck off already with this bullshit strawman.

You dont know what anybody has or has not done on here.

If you want people to applaud you for self-masturbation then go make an account on a porn streaming site.

[beanman12345]

As a Democrat (Warren supporter) I really have to shake my head in disbelief when I see CNN, MSNBC, and moderate Democrats on Twitter railing against Sanders' voters in Nevada when a big chunk of them were Latinx voters, the exact kind of minority voters that Democratic Presidents need to get out to vote so they can win in the general.

I don't get it. Sure whine about Bernie Bros being mean to you on Twitter (and thus everyone shouldn't get healthcare all) all you want but when you're attacking the actual voters who came out and propelled him to such a large victory over the other candidates, you're losing the fucking forest for the trees here.

Nicole Wallace on MSNBC earlier tonight implied that young Hispanic voters tricked their non-English speaking parents into voting for Sanders. The amount of absolute disrespect for actual voters is crazy.

Isn't Nicole Wallace a GOP refuge who also was part of Bush's administration? fuck her and her opinions.

[Yoshingo]

Isn't Nicole Wallace a GOP refuge who also was part of Bush's administration? fuck her and her opinions.

She is indeed, but MSNBC is (for some laughable reason) considered a more left-leaning 'news' station here.

But she's not the only one to do so. We've talked about Chris Matthew's brain melting in the other mega thread, and once again today he didn't disappoint by comparing Sanders' rise to when the Nazis took France.

And then Joy Reid lowkey "advising" Democrats to "figure it out" in reference to Sanders' path to victory.

And then during the actual caucus, one of their anchors, Chris Jansing, exacerbatingly sighing when reporting that Sanders is winning.

This twitter video (ignore the MGSV music, although I kind of find it funny) of almost exclusively MSNBC anchors losing their shit today is a good representation: https://twitter.com/ryankalford/stat...32701959430145

[Dextroden]

No, I called you out on your do-nothing bullshit, and that's the end of it. You're welcome for my contributions by the way.

You have a problem with this country and it's course. Do something about it for a change instead of just bitching about it. You... and actually *waves at MMO-OT progressives * the lot of you could have joined an anti-Trump PAC or a campaign at any point in the last 3 years. I did it 2 months after Trump was elected. The lot of you did nothing. A few did. Most didn't.

Why the fuck not, fair-weather liberals.?

Voting is the bare minimum. Do more or get lost. Because you haven't done enough. Not nearly.

See, you say that. But your threatening of "Bernie will lead to more Trump" says your contributions are, like your sense of honor, a fucking lie.

[Zaktar]

I think the overwhelming body of evidence is on the side of my argument.

Where are the mass street protests against Trump?

Why is Trump raising the money from every day voters he is? Less than the Democrats but not a lot less.

Trump's been normalized and Americans democratic cred is quite clear - as a people, we can be bought. A good economy and most of us will shut the hell up.

Americans are, by in large, democratic (small d) cowards and anyone who gives them any ounce of credit to do the right thing, at this point, isn't paying attention. They love democracy, so long as it's people exactly like them and it doesn't hit their bottom line too much. Many Americans would be perfectly happy under the right authoritarian ruler.

I can't tell you how profoundly disappointed I was that Americans didn't basically revolt over what went down during impeachment. I didn't expect them to per se - I set expectations very low. But aside from the Women's march in 2017 and the initial protests when the Travel ban started in 2017, there has been a whole lot of nothing.

We're on travel ban number what... #4? Nothing. Trump has been normalized. Accepted. American delivered a stinging defeat to him in 2018, but that was legitimately all they're willing to do.

Our side is going to lose because progressives and see @Endus above think there is a lot more rationality, intelligence and democratic credibility to Americans than there actually.

My approach? Expect nothing of them, and then go a few notches lower. And attenuate a candidate for that. After all, that worked for Trump.

We'll see. Don't think you serve anyone by saying you're certain we'll lose. If there is some strategy behind that, enlighten me. Maybe it's some kind of reverse psychology to encourage your allies to work harder?

[beanman12345]

She is indeed, but MSNBC is (for some laughable reason) considered a more left-leaning 'news' station here.

But she's not the only one to do so. We've talked about Chris Matthew's brain melting in the other mega thread, and once again today he didn't disappoint by comparing Sanders' rise to when the Nazis took France.

I didn't see that, but I did see his meltdown of him comparing Bernie to Cuba Castro and lining people up in squares being shot. These people are fucking loonie and out of touch, and like Skroe, only proving they know fuck all.

[Yoshingo]

. Maybe it's some kind of reverse psychology to encourage your allies to work harder?

If Sanders became President then yes, this is what he would claim.

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't see that, but I did see his meltdown of him comparing Bernie to Cuba Castro and lining people up in squares being shot. These people are fucking loonie and out of touch, and like Skroe, only proving they know fuck all.

https://twitter.com/ryankalford/stat...32701959430145

The Chris Matthews insanity is at the very end, at about 2:00. All of these clips were only from today.

[Endus]

No, I called you out on your do-nothing bullshit, and that's the end of it. You're welcome for my contributions by the way.

You have a problem with this country and it's course. Do something about it for a change instead of just bitching about it. You... and actually *waves at MMO-OT progressives * the lot of you could have joined an anti-Trump PAC or a campaign at any point in the last 3 years. I did it 2 months after Trump was elected. The lot of you did nothing. A few did. Most didn't.

Why the fuck not, fair-weather liberals.?

Voting is the bare minimum. Do more or get lost. Because you haven't done enough. Not nearly.

I'm Canadian. Do you want more foreigners meddling in your election, or something?

[mvaliz]

@Skroe, you're gonna have to pick an argument.

Is this election a referendum on Trump, and everyone should be voting against Trump? Then it doesn't matter who the Democratic candidate is, and we may as well run Sanders as anyone else. They're "not-Trump", and that's all that matters.

Or is it that this election is about ideology, and progressivism can't win? [snip].

Ahhhhhh, My old friend! ((dodges glaring look)) I'm so glad you're seeing through that as well.

Remember, Skroe is - in his heart - still a Traitorpublican. While he has vowed to not call himself a Traitorpublican, the only reason he's doing so is because of the illegal shit Dump is doing and the Admin protecting him - NOT because of their policies (or most thereof).

Sanders IS the ideological opposite of everything Skroe holds near and dear in his beliefs and, indeed, in his pride-based ego. Selflessness. Helping others. Bringing balance out from military budgets (reminder, Skroe deals with Military contract work - this directly effects him!). That's why Skroe's currently trying to push EVERYTHING towards getting people mad at Sanders because he can't accept that a Canadian-style system might actually be a reality in the near future. He wants to go back to Democratic candidates he can always reliably beat.

In a way, I kinda feel sorry for Skroe. All this time he's been pushing against Dump - and not realizing he was actually helping foster the fires of progressivism in this country (((I can just hear him raging at that statement! Sorry, bud! ;P))). But, that's rather poetic in my book, since it was his very same Traitorpublican evangelizing of Traitorpublican Propaganda prior to 2016 that brought us Dump in the first place. He can deny it all he wants - but it was his very kind of rage/shitpostings that led to people loving Dump. And now, it's working again... in wonderful reverse. ^_^

Poor ol' sod just can't win...

Right now he's fighting an internal conflict - his hatred for Dump and his inhumane Old-School Traitorpublican ideology/methods vs Skroe's own outdated Old-School Traitorpublican ideology/methods. So, @Skroe, which one of those wolves will you feed to let win over your soul?

EDIT: My suggestion? Find a third option. Open your mind and let see what happens... you might learn something new.

In regards to Sanders Vs Dump - I stand here like Dr. Serazawa, and you're the genius American Military commander who, for all of his training, can't see a way out of this.

To quote Serazawa - "Let them fight".

[Sunseeker]

I think a lot of people are eschewing the other candidates, up to the point of saying "I won't vote for them if they don't meet my progressive quota."

Great, then talk to those people about that. I've been pretty clear about my stance. I'm gonna push for what I want, and then vote for the Big (D).

If you're laying in a ditch with your legs cut off, you should really be working to get back to a time when you didn't have your legs cut off, instead of planning on how you're going to run a marathon.

Yeah but I can still work towards getting to a point where I have legs capable of running a marathon. Setting my sights on "have legs" isn't good enough. Setting my sights on the legs I want lets me know if I've accomplished anything or not. If I end up with useless gimp legs and bad knees and need a walker or a wheel-chair, then what was the point of getting legs back? I can't use them for anything of value.

I understand the desire to push the democratic party in a more progressive direction. But I also understand that is not something that can be done rapidly, nor is that something that is best attempted while fighting from behind.

As I said before, y'all have had time. And y'all keep repeating this line every time. "Change is slow" "change is slow" "change takes time" "you have to be patient" "you can't rush this" "you need to give it more time"

And you know what we've finally figured out? As long as we keep going along with that, we're never going to get what we want.

[Dextroden]

I'm Canadian. Do you want more foreigners meddling in your election, or something?

Speaking of that. When are you going away? You're not allowed to have an opinion on American politics based on how fucking offensive it is for people from Europe to have a positive opinion on Bernie Sanders around Skroe.

[Skroe]

Can you kindly fuck off already with this bullshit strawman.

You dont know what anybody has or has not done on here.

If you want people to applaud you for self-masturbation then go make an account on a porn streaming site.

Yes. I do. Because Mr. Made Account in June 2019, most of us have been talking about Donald Trump and all things Trump, and the actual things we have done to resist since 2015.

This is a saga that extends 4 years before you joined. So don't pretend to know what you're talking about, new guy.

[Yoshingo]

Yes. I do. Because Mr. Made Account in June 2019, most of us have been talking about Donald Trump and all things Trump, and the actual things we have done to resist since 2015.

This is a saga that extends 4 years before you joined. So don't pretend to know what you're talking about, new guy.

Ah yes I forgot that you cannot read the forums unless you make an account and you also know what all the people who were like me and just read the website while taking a shit did for political activism.

I've been lurking since probably late 2017 but thanks for the off topic attempt at a slam.

As if that has any relevance on anything I've said.

Wait wait wait, were you just trying to say it mattered that you whined about Trump on these forums after your self-masturbatory congratulation that you were doing MORE than just that not 2 posts ago?

[beanman12345]

If Sanders became President then yes, this is what he would claim.

- - - Updated - - -



https://twitter.com/ryankalford/stat...32701959430145

The Chris Matthews insanity is at the very end, at about 2:00. All of these clips were only from today.

Ahh ty for that, fucking gold.

[Dextroden]

Yes. I do. Because Mr. Made Account in June 2019, most of us have been talking about Donald Trump and all things Trump, and the actual things we have done to resist since 2015.

This is a saga that extends 4 years before you joined. So don't pretend to know what you're talking about, new guy.

Resist Donald Trump by....opposing the candidate getting support hand over fist.

Can we accuse you of being a Russian Asset? Please.

[nonameelf]

https://twitter.com/ryankalford/stat...32701959430145

The Chris Matthews insanity is at the very end, at about 2:00. All of these clips were only from today.

This is hilarious.

They learned literally fucking nothing from 2016. The working class is pissed. Young voters are pissed. Democrats aren't addressing it, that's why we got Trump. That's why we're getting Sanders.

Democrats can bitch and moan all they want, but their neglect is what has caused all this to happen.

[Skroe]

We'll see. Don't think you serve anyone by saying you're certain we'll lose. If there is some strategy behind that, enlighten me. Maybe it's some kind of reverse psychology to encourage your allies to work harder?

Realism. I'm a scientist by training. This isn't defeatism. It's analysis.

Once again, if I thought Bernie's approach was a winner, I'd say so. I'm not because I don't. It's as simple as that.

Part of the problem with this entire conversation is that most progressives here think this is about my personal objection to Bernie's policies. I don't really care about Bernie's policies. Let's be blunt: a 79 year old man who just had a heart attack has about 3 years to live. He'll probably not wake up one day before the end of Shadowlands. And even if that isn't the case, his policies don't command a majority of the house or more than 30 votes in the Senate, much less 60.

If policy were a concern of mine, i would have nothing to worry about.

My entire position is based upon what gives the Democrats the best weapon to beat Trump in November. That's it. I'm thinking about what is appetizing to swing voters ins swing states. Not policies as President (which won't happen anyway). Not about how *I feel about policies* (which is irrelevant). Totally about what can get a few thousand people who voted for Trump in 2016 in Wisconsin vote Democrat this time.

That is legitimately all there is to it.

https://poll.qu.edu/2020-presidentia...ReleaseID=3656

Quinnipiac says Trump trounces Bernie by 7 points in Wisconsin, 50-43. Let's be clear, if that happens, Trump wins re-election. He in fact, trounces all Democrats, including Biden, very handily right now there.

Biden probably has the best chance at reversing that. But that is the magnitude of the problem. Democrats have to either reverse that, or win North Carolina or Florida.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ders-6745.html
North Carolina is recent data deficient, but too close.

Florida is better:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...da/4488735002/

But keep in mind... Florida Democratic Party.... the least competent political organization in the country. Any Democrat in that state (not just Sanders, but Biden, Clinton, Obama) needs to massively overperform in that state because the people running that shit show are epic fuck ups.

[mvaliz]

I can't tell you how profoundly disappointed I was that Americans didn't basically revolt over what went down during impeachment. I didn't expect them to per se - I set expectations very low. But aside from the Women's march in 2017 and the initial protests when the Travel ban started in 2017, there has been a whole lot of nothing.

I commented on this very same observation, and even @Endus said it best - we learned "what's the point?" The only thing that's left is voting now. No protest at all can do anything other than show of solidarity. They can't change that decision or reopen it due to a protest, can they?

Where you see defeatism, I now instead see refocus. People aren't protesting because they were, even in your own words, expecting this to happen. Even you stated for months to the Dumpsters that we weren't expecting a guilty verdict.

There were planned protests all over the place. None were planned for that - because we all knew what was comming, and that protesting would do nothing anymore.

Only thing that works now, is voting.