Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[Voidwielder]

Are we really pretending that the community hasn't always been, "Gogogo hurry up gogogo wtf come on noob gogo" about everything past and present, timers or not?

Exactly. I remember MoP Heroics, WoD Heroics and even Cata Heroics from a decade ago. Stonecore in partciular was notorious for people chain pulling at the start as much as possible just to kill the RP time.

[Dioporco]

Only DHs are slightly overrepresented.

And 0.7 affly lock and 0.5 mm and sv hunter etc etc are slightly underpresented

Dunno if you are playing Shadow Priest, looking at the avatar, but good luck getting invited if you are not the holder.


I play 3 classes DH Hunter and Spriest, have no issue with the first 2 but the Spriest is getting score only because I am the key holder so i can do my 15 w o problem

[Voidwielder]

And 0.7 affly lock and 0.5 mm and sv hunter etc etc are slightly underpresented

Dunno if you are playing Shadow Priest, looking at the avatar, but good luck getting invited if you are not the holder.


I play 3 classes DH Hunter and Spriest, have no issue with the first 2 but the Spriest is getting score only because I am the key holder so i can do my 15 w o problem

I don't play Shadow since launch for many reasons. I play Disc, probably the most underhanded healer of the last two patches, certainly this one.
I do 15's just fine. All pugs, I have no friends.

I know several master-blaster Shadow Priests who rank Top X-something in the region. You can make semi-decent specs work. The key word here is work, which many people don't like that their preferred fantasy/feel specs require now.

Are there underdogs? Absolutely. But I don't see the problem of higher tiers of game play - which do correlate with key levels - requiring the best of the current class.

[Jastall]

Sounds like you're confirming there are plenty of people who like this playstyle and would like to do it without having to jump through hoops to get the keys required to play like they want.

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Why is it so hard to let people have a tick-box when entering the key that says "Enable timer? +1 drop if dungeon completed in time". It does absolutely nothing to your playstyle and gives people options.

Why is your enjoyment derived from depriving others?

So long as your key downgrades no matter what, fine by me. Or if non-timed runs don't count for the weekly chest instead, that's also fine.

If you can take 3 hours and 40 deaths to do a non-timed run and still get a good weekly chest + an upgraded key the same as if you did it the correct way in 25 minutes and 2 deaths, then you just reward people being worse at the game. Non-timed runs should be a lot less rewarding than just getting 1 fewer item in your end of dungeon run, which is usually not the main reason to do M+ unless you're chain farming them early in the season- and there the timer's quite irrelevant. It's as if saying "well we hit the enrage on that raid boss thus meaning a clear failure state, but instead of wiping we just get a bit less loot, that's fair right?".

Myself I'm still mostly against the idea because I don't want to divide the M+ going playerbase into two groups, and the sheer amount of toxicity and elitism this will create will boggle many minds as well.

[Alvito]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

You can put a title on your group saying you are just looking to finish and you get exactly what you want without having to create some new game mode.

[rhorle]

Why is it so hard to let people have a tick-box when entering the key that says "Enable timer? +1 drop if dungeon completed in time". It does absolutely nothing to your playstyle and gives people options. Why is your enjoyment derived from depriving others?

So how would a key upgrade if you never did a timed run? Wouldn't people just exploit a non-timed run to get a higher key? After all you have to allow keys to upgrade with out a timer otherwise people would never be able to do anything higher then mythic +2 with out a timer. It isn't about depriving others but about fundamentally changing the way a system functions.

[Lolites]

Nobody is suggesting simply removing the timer dude.

We're just a bunch thinking Mythics could be made challenging in other ways than something than punishes DC's and reallife in general. That's my issue. If my kid cries in her bed when I'm playing in the evening I can't just finish up the Mythic before checking on her, and a few runs have been ruined for everyone cuz of that

my point still stands, even if the m+ without time is addition not replacement, if it gives gear comparable to timed runs people wouldnt run timed runs, bcs people always choose the path of least resistance... if the reward is way lower, or the difficulty much higher i have no issue

[rhorle]

Speed runs are garbage. Thats why Mythic + and stuff like Island Expeditions suck big time. Not sure who would think that designing such a system in an MmoRPG would be a good idea. Diablo devs probably. Wrong game and genre. The last thing i need when i come from a hard day of training/working is more stress in a damn speed run.

Islands are not speed runs any more then heroics dungeons are. People will complete content the fastest they possible can regardless of any timer. Islands are completed way before the other team is an issue. That is if you play them right there are still a few random groups that don't play them right so there is still a small risk of failure.

Besides using your argument raids are timed runs and thus garbage. Since you know they have boss enrage timers. Not to mention timed mechanics are a staple of "old school" RPG's where you have timed quests and other things. I think you really don't know what is a staple of rpgs or MMORPGS. Timed things are not just limited to ARPGS like Diablo. But nice to through a bunch of random things to see if they stick.

[apustus]

I bet there's an addon to remove the timer from your UI.

[rhorle]

Promotes the tact of "this class or get declined" wow nice. Imagine with a no timer.

People wouldn't stop using high performing specs and classes even with out a timer. Because the ones taken with a timer perform the best for the runs and people will naturally gravitate towards what will allow quick and easy clears. It is why people skip trash even when there are no timers. Because they don't want to take longer. They want to finish and move on to the next run.

[Lolites]

Well fun is subjective true but minus habens laugh at people farting so lets assume that there is "quality fun" and TIMER isnt a quality fun in a mmo.

so first you say its subjective and then add another word to it so you can pretend to be objective... way to go
thankfuly, you are not arbiter of what "fun" or "quality" fun is, and given how M+ was received generaly, a lot (i would even say majority) of people disagree with you...

and sorry, but did you have stroke writing it or wtf "minus habens" mean?!

[Drusin]

I might actually do them if they were like this. I hated challenge modes from the moment they introduced them because I do not enjoy playing against the timer.

Same, I've hated time attack since the Die Hard game in the 90s x_x. I did just enough CMs to get the appearances in MoP and WoD but with M+ I've done like 30 of them since they were released and 0 were in BFA lol.

[Zubacz]

Mythic + is challenging and there for fun because of the timer. So was Challenge Mode. The main thing I don't like about it is what it did to dungeon design. Dungeons are created to facilitate the zerg tactic of M+, which makes them quite inferior to dungeons before MoP.

M+ also solved the problem of 5mans becoming irrelevant with each new patch.

[owbu]

I would love if the game launched with a couple of hard megadungeons that can then be split into timed m+ dungeons later in the season. Untimed dungeons are at it's best when the place is actually big enough to explore and find optional paths and such.

I don't really need an untimed mini-dungeon experience. I can't imagine slowly ccing and pulling one group after the other is much fun in a place like Kings Rest.

[Blysto]

People seem to view the timer as just a pacemaker, but it also serves as a safety check on the key. The reality is that generally if your group cannot complete a key in time, the content is too difficult for you and/or your group is undergeared. If the timer didn't exists yet you could still finish a key in a reasonable amount of time, then your group's issue is likely execution and not the difficulty/timer. It's also a service in some ways to pugs, as you'd find the key completion rate drop and toxicity exacerbated to even higher levels if you could easily obtain high level keys yet not have the skill/gear to clear them in a timely fashion.

All that being said, I'm not really a fan of r.io, but it's mostly because people tend to not use it correctly and it's reliance on a 3rd party add-on. I do think there's some quality of life things that could be done to M+ in general to make things a bit easier, such as being able to lower keys in a more effective manner than constantly resetting the instance. I'd also be a fan of bringing back the Bwonsamdi buff to some degree, as it only helps you complete a key instead of push a key.

Maybe some1 already stated this in this threat... but this exists already with a gift of n'zoth or something. Atleast in TD there is a fish which can give you that buff.

[Carcimomim]

The timer needs to stay. If you can’t do a key within time, then get better or try a different group makeup. Keys are supposed to increase in difficulty as they get higher, and without the timer there's no reason to try an complete it in a reasonable amount of time. It would just encourage more farming instead of encouraging the challenge of the dungeons. If you want to do a dungeon on your own time frame, m0, heroic and normal exist.

[Ielenia]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Anyone who goes "rush rush rush" in M+ without a care for strategy and planning is never going to beat mid-to-late M+ levels.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

... You do know there's a chest in the end, even if you fail the timer, so you already got your wish?

[Jamie081]

Who's everyone? This is genuinely the first time I've seen people come out of the woodworks to complain about the timer. The timer is there as a difficulty check. If you're failing keys then you need to do lower keys. You still get a chest on completion of a key that's run out of time so it's not like you're being punished much.

Wow you don't get to upgrade your key... you're not going to do a higher key when you can't complete the lower key in time. That's the whole point. Besides in M+ 1-6 the timer is so forgiving you forget it's even there. If it is a problem then you and your group really badly need to improve your performance.

[dragi]

I only want ask tread author, what's a point of mythic+ without timer? What's evaluation system instead?

Btw. personally i enjoining current m+ system a lot. I have only problem with community:P "lf M+ 5 dung, 460ilvl and 2k rio score" bla bla etc xD

[Popastique]

Run basic Mythic dungeons, no timer there, problem fixed.