8698 guilds have logged a kill of the first boss in BWL, 9368 first boss in Ny'alotha

[schwarzkopf]

Numbers are wrong - 11557 kills of HEROIC Ny'alotha to date.
Around 20000 kills all up (excluding LFR).

Also - almost everyone in classic raids, because there is SFA else to do.
Around 15% of WoW retail players raid normal or above.

So when comparing things, make sure you get your samples right.

Fundamentally - Retail is the better game, that's why far more people play it.

[Relapses]

...and? Is there something to discuss here other than the latent insecurities players have over whichever version of WoW they prefer?

[DazManianDevil]

Wait, is Normal Nyalotha a thing? /s
I'm glad both games are finding success, but how many guilds cleared Nyalotha Normal/Heroic while BWL was getting steamrolled day one? That's something I'd be interested to see.
I may have to come back for Classic once 8.3 starts to die down, seeing as the barrier to entry for BWL seems to be "Has a pulse, monitor on" which is right up my alley and skill level ;3
(Obvious sarcasm is obvious, plz minimize flame <3 )

[Nerovar]

Classic is very successful and I have no problem with that since the money classic generates goes to Blizzard and I as a retail player get more xpacs so I'm very happy for Classic doing well, because its funding retail atm.

That's a reasonable take. I really don't understand why there are people who seem so invested in seeing Classic fail. It's unreal.

[Ryzek]

That's a reasonable take. I really don't understand why there are people who seem so invested in seeing Classic fail. It's unreal.

I don't get it either. I don't see why Classic and Retail can't coexist.

[Zyky]

And Ny'alotha has been out for much longer. Yikes.

logs =/= kills as heroic first boss has over 11,557 guilds who have killed the boss, not even counting pugs.

[themaster24]

That's a reasonable take. I really don't understand why there are people who seem so invested in seeing Classic fail. It's unreal.

I don't get it either. I don't see why Classic and Retail can't coexist.

I think some people get annoyed by the frequent threads like this, which at this point essentially come off as "Retail is a garbage dead game, Classic is the only real WoW". I think very few people want Classic to fail, just like very few people wish retail would fail. Unfortunately, when threads like this or a flipped version pop up, it just irritates people on both sides.

[FelPlague]

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...s=610&page=174

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...lty=3&page=188

Normal Ny'alotha that is.

With BWL being 40-man and Ny'alotha being 10-25 seems like the classic raiding scene actually has a lot more players than the retail one.

I know lots of classic guilds that don't log, but I'm guessing lots of normal ny'alotha guilds don't log either so dunno there.

Ok so then.
how many guilds have cleared the first boss on LFR and logged it?
how many have cleared the first boss on heroic and logged it?
how many have cleared the first boss on mythic and logged it?

nevermind the fact classic players also on average log more often, especially with on average more people in their raid.

You say that BWL has more raiders then retail, meanwhile ignoring the fact you are only including 1 difficulty, and a minority of such.

- - - Updated - - -

I think some people get annoyed by the frequent threads like this, which at this point essentially come off as "Retail is a garbage dead game, Classic is the only real WoW". I think very few people want Classic to fail, just like very few people wish retail would fail. Unfortunately, when threads like this or a flipped version pop up, it just irritates people on both sides.

Classic fanbois have been making these threads for years.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't get it either. I don't see why Classic and Retail can't coexist.

cause mostly the classic fanbase, they do this shit allllll the time, they have to prove classic is better then retail for some reason, meanwhile retail fans just enjoy retail.
i heavily enjoy both versions, but this part of the classic community has sorta ruined it for me, it got so exhausting when litwertally 90% of the chitchat during raid was everyone shitting on retail.

"fuck this grind is taking forever.. .but atleast its not shitty retail am i right lol"

[Shibito]

Wasnt a thread like this recently locked cause game vs game isnt allowed

[FelPlague]

That's a reasonable take. I really don't understand why there are people who seem so invested in seeing retail fail. It's unreal.

More realistic.
its rare, if ever i see people making threads of any kind ,or even saying "wow classic is dying, retail is so much better, heres some super bias evidence to prove thats true"
meanwhile every single day we get another thread of classic players trying to shit on retail.

what is it they say. if your thing is so good, why do you waste your time putting all the rest down, if not to simply prove the others are worse then your shitty thing.

[deenman]

It's simple, really. Classic is the better game. It was the result of creative genius being unleashed over years, in an environment that supported it. Those who still play retail are just suffering from what we call the sunk cost fallacy. The real question is whether or not blizzard will learn from this and make drastic enough changes to retail for the next expansion. TBH, I don't think their current team is capable. Ion clearly suffers from delusions of grandeur.

or maybe people who dont play classic,prefer a game with more than 2 things to do,prefer a game where every spec is actualy viable,and in most cases even playable,some maybe prefer a pvp system that doesnt force you to compete with your own faction instead of the one your actualy at war with,maybe some people prefer a game where you get to use more than one ability,but hey,classic does have a more meaningful leveling experience ill give you that,its what i enjoyed most about classic,but after hiting 60 geting the pre bis and some mc runs,i was just done at that point,tbc will be more fun however so waiting for that

[Nitros14]

Who cares

Numbers are wrong - 11557 kills of HEROIC Ny'alotha to date.
Around 20000 kills all up (excluding LFR).

Also - almost everyone in classic raids, because there is SFA else to do.
Around 15% of WoW retail players raid normal or above.

So when comparing things, make sure you get your samples right.

Fundamentally - Retail is the better game, that's why far more people play it.

Ok so then.
how many guilds have cleared the first boss on LFR and logged it?
how many have cleared the first boss on heroic and logged it?
how many have cleared the first boss on mythic and logged it?

nevermind the fact classic players also on average log more often, especially with on average more people in their raid.

You say that BWL has more raiders then retail, meanwhile ignoring the fact you are only including 1 difficulty, and a minority of such.

See? They care.

Really? you think there's more 40man pugs than ny'athloa pugs with its flexiable raid size?

I'll bet 5mill gold Ny'athloa is destroying classic as far a pug raids goes.

Hey I've heard from lots of people on this very forum that classic is so easy it's easier than LFR so I'd imagine there's tons of pugging.


Also, LFR isn't raiding it's a solo activity with no communication.

And I included normal because it's the difficulty that everyone who raids has done. Even mythic raiders still clear normal the first week for titanforges etc. If classic had an armory crawl website with data I'd include it, but it doesn't. It's not like people only do one difficulty, they do all the difficulties they're capable of. Normal guilds typically go kill the first boss of heroic for better gear before they clear normal, heroic guilds typically try to kill the first mythic boss etc.

Forgive my insolence, each of these facts are interesting and in a vaccuum they mean nothing... What do they mean to you?

There's lots of people in this thread who seem to want to put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about retail being garbage or dead and yet. I confess though I got exhausted with raiding mythic on retail and enjoy classic more.

"fuck this grind is taking forever.. .but atleast its not shitty retail am i right lol"

Honestly the problem with retail grinds is they're often endless and you always feel obligated to log on constantly. If you miss a weekly M+ cache in a small way you're behind forever.

Classic grinds have an end point. You can sit down for 8 hours, grind bear people and get it done and you're actually done. You can raid log for two weeks and still be competitive.

[Big Thanks]

There's lots of people in this thread who seem to want to put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about retail being garbage or dead and yet.

Could you make a conclusion so we can take anything from this information?
We could use a discussion point.

But be careful!

This is MMO-Champ and everything derails very easily. Pick your words wisely

[Finear]

how many LFR (which is more or less the same difficulty as classic raids) logs are out there? you are missing a huge chunk of data here

also, there is shit loads of stuff to do on retail and two end game paths
m+ and raids

in 8.2 i didn't raid anything except lfr but i was playing on daily basis, once i got 60 on classic i could either raid or quit, so i quit

[SirReal]

And how many people are still pugging/raiding the past 2 raid tiers, 0? Yeah that's right. All 10,000 of the classic players logging BWL are also pugging MC every week.

holy strawman batman

[Nitros14]

I'm also curious to see how many guilds had killed the first boss of MC compared to Razorgore, but that data might be hard to find.

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...s=663&page=288

14,361 guilds have logged a kill of Lucifron.

how many LFR (which is more or less the same difficulty as classic raids) logs are out there? you are missing a huge chunk of data here

also, there is shit loads of stuff to do on retail and two end game paths
m+ and raids

I was only talking about the raiding scene, not M+ or whatever.

Also, LFR isn't raiding it's a solo activity with no communication. The game also guarantees you eventually succeed.

[Seranthor]

There's lots of people in this thread who seem to want to put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about retail being garbage or dead and yet. I confess though I got exhausted with raiding mythic on retail and enjoy classic more.

Here's your chance to actually speak the words that are actually in your mouth... Which is why I asked the question.

[Finear]

Also, LFR isn't raiding it's a solo activity with no communication.

its literally raiding, its even in the name

not to mention that classic raids and lfr are very comparable when it comes to difficulty, if someone is interested in super casual raids he can pick from classic or lfr

if you want more serious raiding experience you have only retail, classic raids and lfr fill the same niche

[KaPe]

Those are some amazingly biased numbers, considering that one single glance at wowprogress proves them wrong. And that's for heroic difficulty, which was conveniently ignored in the OP, instead comparing it with the most puggable format by far, most of which probably isn't logged anyway, while also ignoring LFR, because it wouldn't fit the argument.

[Nitros14]

its literally raiding, its even in the name

not to mention that classic raids and lfr are very comparable when it comes to difficulty, if someone is interested in super casual raids he can pick from classic or lfr

if you want more serious raiding experience you have only retail, classic raids and lfr fill the same niche

I raided retail for years. Blackwing Lair feels more like normal on the first week than LFR. Lots of guilds have been wiping on Firemaw. Last time I remember actually wiping on LFR bosses was Pandaria with Durumu and Nazgrim and WOD with Archimonde. But you're in a group with total randoms and you get a buff each time you die that guarantees you succeed it's a bit different.

- - - Updated - - -

Those are some amazingly biased numbers, considering that one single glance at wowprogress proves them wrong. And that's for heroic difficulty, which was conveniently ignored in the OP, instead comparing it with the most puggable format by far, most of which probably isn't logged anyway, while also ignoring LFR, because it wouldn't fit the argument.

There's no armory crawler for classic so it would be pointless to cite wowprogress numbers, there's no equivalent for classic.

I could cite heroic logs but they're barely different in numbers.

LFR isn't raiding. It's a solo activity with no communication where you're guaranteed to succeed because the game buffs you until you do.