Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Thepersona]

Lol that hot button word the AR 15. You do understand i have a wood stock 30-06 with a wood stock that preforms the exact same functions as the ar 15 but if i showed you them next to eachother you would just say mine is a hunting rifle. Now the magazine thing. I can swap a magazine on less than 2 seconds if im counting my shot correctly and paying attention. Now I do slightly come off the point where i believe full auto there is no point for outside of the shooting range. Lot of fun but there is no real purpose in civilian life.

Yes it was a republican who screwed up mental health immensely. Doesnt mean anything it happened 40 years ago with Reagan closing asylums vs funding them. Some people just cant function in normal society and are a public safty risk. The spike in shootings has skyrocketed since they closed because there is no way to forcefully lock someone up anymore without consent.

I was using it as an example. It can be any rifle with a high capacity magazine, and intermediate (or full powered) ammo. It's just that the AR-15 platform is more widely available than, say a SCAR (as you can build a cheap one for 500-600 bucks). And i'm not talking about milsurp like garands and SKS
And for the counting shots and magazine change: You have a point, but still, that 2 secons becomes 6 or 8 when you try to shoot 40 shots, instead of 2 (3 magazine changes instead of 1), and that's considering that you are well versed and well trained in the manual of arms of said weapon(s).

And for the point on mental health care. Yes, but the GOP has refused to pass laws regarding them. They only use said problem as a scapegoat, in order to ignore the other problem (that guns and ammo are too easy to get in some states).
And mind you, i'm not against guns or that banning all intermediate or full powered cartridge rifles is a good idea. In fact i hope that with the new constitution in my country, getting said weapons becomes legal again. I'm just saying that it should be specially hard (as in, time consuming) to get that, and to get ammo.

[Levelfive]

thats what i was talking about when you so ~presumptuously~ butted in.

The answer to any question that starts: How do Democrats [do anything] is: re-take the Senate. By the way, posting on a forum isn't "presumptuous;" assuming, based on nothing, what my positions are on the nominee is.

[starlord]

The answer to any question that starts: How do Democrats [do anything] is: re-take the Senate. By the way, posting on a forum isn't "presumptuous;" assuming, based on nothing, what my positions are on the nominee is.

umhm. the conversation was how does bernie plan to handle the senate not being in his favor. your answer is apparently "i dont care about bernie in my hypothetical scenario the dems will somehow have filibuster proof majority based on two candidates."
okay?

[Omega10]

umhm. the conversation was how does bernie plan to handle the senate not being in his favor. your answer is apparently "i dont care about bernie in my hypothetical scenario the dems will somehow have filibuster proof majority based on two candidates."
okay?

Bernie would not do any worse than any other candidate in the face of renewed republican control of the Senate.

We would scale back our expectations appropriately.

And since Bernie and Bloomberg have agreed that no Bloomberg money would be used to help Bernie, there would be a rather large amount of extra money available to help fund democratic House and Senate candidates.

[DKjaigen]

What is unity even mean? I mean, if not broad material benefit and class based politics what are you then talking about?

A lot of calls for "Centrism" seem to amount to "Stuff DC inhabitants and establishment goons like" and totally divorced from the actual opinions of the country.

You could say that unity was when left and right had different ideas to improve the country and respected each others opinion even if they disagreed . These days the left is all about that they hate trump and thats it, well-being of the country be damned. And the disdain of the centrist for the establishment is simple to understand . Most centrists are working class that got fucked over by the elites that endorsed globalism.

[starlord]

Bernie would not do any worse than any other candidate in the face of renewed republican control of the Senate.

We would scale back our expectations appropriately.

i'm just confused at this flailing about that "bernie is the only one who can get anything done by not working with other members of the government!" and when pointed out that realistically that won't work out; "well why shouldn't we even try."

[Milchshake]

Jim Clyburn of SC’s 6th District just announced his endorsement.

He endorsed Biden with these words.
I know Joe Biden.
I know his character and his heart, and his record.
Joe Biden has stood for the hard working people of South Carolina.
We know Joe. But More importantly, he knows us.
In South Carolina, we choose presidents.
I’m calling on you to stand with Joe Biden.

[Levelfive]

umhm. the conversation was how does bernie plan to handle the senate not being in his favor. your answer is apparently "i dont care about bernie in my hypothetical scenario the dems will somehow have filibuster proof majority based on two candidates."
okay?

My answer to defeatist whining about how Democrats can get anything done is to make re-taking the Senate a priority, since one wonders who these mythical Republicans are who are going to suddenly be willing to "compromise" with Democrats on anything. You're like battered wives who still believe despite all evidence to the contrary that your behavior will somehow be enough to change theirs. It won't; it can't--their behavior is deranged, so we have to adapt and re-focus priorities. Incidentally, Colorado (Cory Gardner) also went from toss up to leans blue. I find your disingenuousness tedious and unproductive, but you do you.

[starlord]

My answer to defeatist whining about how Democrats can get anything done is to make re-taking the Senate a priority, since one wonders who these mythical Republicans are who are going to suddenly be willing to "compromise" with Democrats on anything. You're like battered wives who still believe despite all evidence to the contrary that your behavior will somehow be enough to change theirs. It won't; it can't--their behavior is deranged, so we have to adapt and re-focus priorities. Incidentally, Colorado (Cory Gardner) also went from toss up to leans blue. I find your disingenuousness tedious and unproductive, but you do you.

again, thats not going to happen anytime soon. you clearly don't know how the process works if you think a slim majority is a free pass for the dem agenda.
is it more defeatist whining to say "republicans won't let us get anything done and any compromise *to* get something done is a betrayal", or "bernie's famed inability to get anything done by being uncompromising is a big hindrance to actually achieving progressive goals"?

[Milchshake]

My answer to defeatist whining about how Democrats can get anything done is to make re-taking the Senate a priority, since one wonders who these mythical Republicans are who are going to suddenly be willing to "compromise" with Democrats on anything. You're like battered wives who still believe despite all evidence to the contrary that your behavior will somehow be enough to change theirs. It won't; it can't--their behavior is deranged, so we have to adapt and re-focus priorities. Incidentally, Colorado (Cory Gardner) also went from toss up to leans blue. I find your disingenuousness tedious and unproductive, but you do you.

What's your take on Hickenlooper or the other Dems challenging Gardner?
Hickenlooper came to mind, since last week Jane Sanders of all people, was throwing shade his way. The usual berns about him being a corporate shill etc.

But I can see a Hickenlooper voting for expanding healthcare, much like a Jon Tester or Joe Manchin. They seem more willing to compromise.

This is where Bernie us vs the world posturing worries me. Jane comments did not seem helpful.

[Edge-]

So Bernie was an establishment type back then.

*Claims Sanders didn't endorse Obama so he's a racist*

*Proven Sanders endorsed Obama*

*Claims Sanders is now establishment without acknowledging being painfully wrong*

I see you've decided to voluntarily relieve yourself of reason and reasonability. Cool.

[Omega10]

i'm just confused at this flailing about that "bernie is the only one who can get anything done by not working with other members of the government!" and when pointed out that realistically that won't work out; "well why shouldn't we even try."

We are flailing about for what we think is right. We are losing, but we will continue to fight hard.

After all, in the 90s we were getting crushed on gay marriage.

In the 00s, we were losing badly.

Now the issue has been resolved and gay marriage is legal.

We are always losing 90% of the time. But with persistence, we get some major victories now and again.

Fight M4A as hard as you want. You will get a lot of victories... until the time it is enacted. Then you can move on to get more victories on a different issue.

[Milchshake]

*Claims Sanders didn't endorse Obama so he's a racist*

*Proven Sanders endorsed Obama*

*Claims Sanders is now establishment without acknowledging being painfully wrong*

I see you've decided to voluntarily relieve yourself of reason and reasonability. Cool.

You're doubling down on personal attacks in the face of criticism of a candidate. Also cherry-picking quotes and misstating all meaning. You're just projecting your own badd faith and need to tone police.

Singling out a user for personal attacks and baiting feels like a borderline infractable offence and reflects poorly on MMO-C leadership.

Maybe you should be the one relieving their self of any claim to authority, moral or otherwise.

[starlord]

We are flailing about for what we think is right. We are losing, but we will continue to fight hard.

After all, in the 90s we were getting crushed on gay marriage.

In the 00s, we were losing badly.

Now the issue has been resolved and gay marriage is legal.

We are always losing 90% of the time. But with persistence, we get some major victories now and again.

Fight M4A as hard as you want. You will get a lot of victories... until the time it is enacted. Then you can move on to get more victories on a different issue.

i'm not fighting it lol. i want it to actually happen, which is why i take a long hard look at it when someone promises it without showing how they plan to achieve it.
blindly following the leader is for trumpsters.

[Trunksee]

We are flailing about for what we think is right. We are losing, but we will continue to fight hard.

After all, in the 90s we were getting crushed on gay marriage.

In the 00s, we were losing badly.

Now the issue has been resolved and gay marriage is legal.

We are always losing 90% of the time. But with persistence, we get some major victories now and again.

Fight M4A as hard as you want. You will get a lot of victories... until the time it is enacted. Then you can move on to get more victories on a different issue.

So the toddler affect. Cry until they are sick of hearing you and give in. But what happens if they get sick of listening to you because what your asking for is unreasonable and you get punished. Oh wait you already did when Trump got voted in.

[I Push Buttons]

We are flailing about for what we think is right. We are losing, but we will continue to fight hard.

After all, in the 90s we were getting crushed on gay marriage.

In the 00s, we were losing badly.

Now the issue has been resolved and gay marriage is legal.

We are always losing 90% of the time. But with persistence, we get some major victories now and again.

Fight M4A as hard as you want. You will get a lot of victories... until the time it is enacted. Then you can move on to get more victories on a different issue.

Except gay marriage and M4A aren't even almost comparable in terms of how they would be implemented.

All it took for gay marriage to be legal was a shift in opinion on the Supreme Court to say "this state law that bans gay marriage is unconstitutional", that's it, it instantly became legal everywhere after that. Congress wasn't involved even slightly.

M4A requires 60 votes in the Senate and Sanders won't even have a majority of votes backing it.

[Trunksee]

Except gay marriage and M4A aren't even almost comparable in terms of how they would be implemented.

All it took for gay marriage to be legal was a shift in opinion on the Supreme Court to say "this state law that bans gay marriage is unconstitutional", that's it, it instantly became legal everywhere after that.

M4A requires 60 votes in the Senate and Sanders won't even have a majority of votes backing it.

Also gay marriage didnt effect anyones pockets and it wasnt made federally legal just that states couldnt ban it. I find that far from a win. All they did was throw you a bone to shut you up basically.

[Levelfive]

again, thats not going to happen anytime soon. you clearly don't know how the process works if you think a slim majority is a free pass for the dem agenda.
is it more defeatist whining to say "republicans won't let us get anything done and any compromise *to* get something done is a betrayal", or "bernie's famed inability to get anything done by being uncompromising is a big hindrance to actually achieving progressive goals"?

In point of fact, we can get quite a lot done (not to mention prevented) with a slim majority, just like the Republicans are literally doing right now, speaking of not knowing how the process works.

[Omega10]

i'm not fighting it lol. i want it to actually happen, which is why i take a long hard look at it when someone promises it without showing how they plan to achieve it.
blindly following the leader is for trumpsters.

Then fight hard to show how Biden will make it happen rather than tearing Sanders down. Warren took down Bloomberg, and the big winner is Biden.

Say good things about Biden. Get quotes from him pushing his own way forward. The race seems to be Sanders vs Biden. Support Biden by saying good things about him rather than tearing down Bernie.

[Levelfive]

What's your take on Hickenlooper or the other Dems challenging Gardner?
Hickenlooper came to mind, since last week Jane Sanders of all people, was throwing shade his way. The usual berns about him being a corporate shill etc.

But I can see a Hickenlooper voting for expanding healthcare, much like a Jon Tester or Joe Manchin. They seem more willing to compromise.

This is where Bernie us vs the world posturing worries me. Jane comments did not seem helpful.

Hickenlooper has a real shot. Yes, he's a douche, but it goes with the territory.