Can Arthas be held accountable for his crimes?

[Calfredd]

Arthas did everything right until his soul got consumed by frostmourn.
The purge of stratholm was the only possibility. Pursuing malganis was the only way something like that could not happen again on his lands.
The fact that Uther prefered an army of undead destroying lordaeron than doing the necessary dirty work, then managed to convince a senile king to betray his son so he could ger back his status. Well that's on them.
On the other hand arthas did everything until the end to save his people. Even his last free words were for them.

And when he was dangerously low on supplies because he forced his army and mercenaries to chase after Mal'ganis and everyone wanted to go home? When he secretly ordered the mercs to burn the ships and then used them as a scapegoat to stay in Northrend?

[formerShandalay]

It's confusing, because there is basically a personality split when he takes up Frostmourne. The "Good" Arthas, the man who wanted to save his people, is the first soul to become captured by Frostmourne, and Prince Arthas is replaced by the "Evil" DK Arthas. The Evil Arthas ends up merging with Ner'zhul, and subsequently take control of the Lich King. This Evil Arthas inherited all of Ner'zhul's memories upon merging with him, wanted to sever all connections to humanity he had left, that's why he removed his own heart. But a fraction of the Good Arthas remaiend within the Lich King's mind, and he was the only thing that was stopping the Lich King from annihilating Azeroth. Furthermore, the Lich King always kept Jaina's locket close to his heart, as proof that the Good Arthas was still there somwhere.

I suppose the Arbiter doesn't care about these distinctions though. Good Arthas was ultimately just a fraction of the Lich King, he was almost destroyed by Evil Arthas, and that's why he went to the Maw.

At least if you take Rise of the Lich King into account, picking up Frostmourne didn't really 'split' Arthas yet. Right after he picks up Frostmourne, he sees Muradin lying on the ground and wants to heal him, the Light comes rushing to his aid, but he chooses not to. He pushes it away, because he likes the power Frostmourne promises him more. He is not split or possessed or mind controlled at that point, even with Frostmourne in his hands. Tempted and manipulated, yes. But the choice is his very own.

[CoastGrowler]

And when he was dangerously low on supplies because he forced his army and mercenaries to chase after Mal'ganis and everyone wanted to go home? When he secretly ordered the mercs to burn the ships and then used them as a scapegoat to stay in Northrend?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he already in posession of Frostmourne then?

[formerShandalay]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he already in posession of Frostmourne then?

No, he was still chasing it at that point.

[CoastGrowler]

No, he was still chasing it at that point.

Ah, it's been too long. I haven't played reforged!

Anyways, he took some terrible decisions, but I keep putting myself in Arthas' shoes, and all I can think is "I NEED to find a way to stop this, PRONTO, but nobody will help me! They don't seem to understand the severity of this situation!". That kind of pressure will almost always lead to extreme actions.

[Grazrug]

I recommend the op next time to not make the poll anonymous. It's easy to manipulate them with new accounts.

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At least if you take Rise of the Lich King into account, picking up Frostmourne didn't really 'split' Arthas yet. Right after he picks up Frostmourne, he sees Muradin lying on the ground and wants to heal him, the Light comes rushing to his aid, but he chooses not to. He pushes it away, because he likes the power Frostmourne promises him more. He is not split or possessed or mind controlled at that point, even with Frostmourne in his hands. Tempted and manipulated, yes. But the choice is his very own.

This is important to know.

[Grazrug]

Call me devil's advocate, but I think he had the balls to actually try and stop the scourge before it became too great of a threat. I don't think he enjoyed the idea of purging Stratholme or picking up a cursed sword, but in the balance of things, he took his chances for a greater good. I's just like Illidan, who, in essence, had the same line of thought.

When arthas murdered his father, he was being driven and posessed by Ner'zhul already. Damn, people do worst things with just a couple of beers.

On the other hand we have passive Uther. If you think about it, he could have tried to talk Arthas out of the idea, and trying to come up with something, but no. He went full butthurt in all his holiness, and simply walked away, leaving Arthas to his luck.

You're not an advocate. You're a fanboy. The game tells us Arthas is wrong. We doomed different characters for less then the stuff Arthas did.

Infracted.

[Zenfoldor]

Can those entranced by the One Ring be held accountable for their actions? I don't know.

[Aliven]

Can those entranced by the One Ring be held accountable for their actions? I don't know.

Yep, they can.

Only humans were corrupted to the extreme.

Dwarfs were just greedy after.

And elfs didnt give a fuck. Or they cleansed it somehow i dont remember.

[Kyphael]

I recommend the op next time to not make the poll anonymous. It's easy to manipulate them with new accounts.

Who would go through the trouble of creating multiple accounts just to manipulate the results on an MMO-C forum poll?

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Yep, they can.

Only humans were corrupted to the extreme.

Dwarfs were just greedy after.

And elfs didnt give a fuck. Or they cleansed it somehow i dont remember.

If that were true, they should have had Legolas carry the thing. Not even Gandalf wanted to touch it, and he's not human despite his appearance. No one but Isildur, Sméagol, Bilbo and Frodo aside from Sauron himself held it for a relevant amount of time.

[Grazrug]

Can those entranced by the One Ring be held accountable for their actions? I don't know.

Why do you think Aragon is hunted so hard by the legacy of Isildur? He's remembered as the king that helped to let Sauron live on.

[CostinR]

Depends on which version you are talking about.

Warcraft 3 one: Not really. He was seeing his homeland being destroyed, he fought brutal battles and ended up losing his sanity long before he took up Frostmourne. Hearthglen was the beginning of that, Stratholme was the nail in the coffin.

World of Warcraft and Novelization: He is showing as far more sane and in control over his actions and knowing full well what he was doing. Instead of being corrupted and losing his sanity.

[Tarba]

And when he was dangerously low on supplies because he forced his army and mercenaries to chase after Mal'ganis and everyone wanted to go home? When he secretly ordered the mercs to burn the ships and then used them as a scapegoat to stay in Northrend?

I'm pretty sure that killing a guy who is able to turn into undead servants one of the main city of your land, is a priority.
Of course you can also wait for him to do it again.

[CoastGrowler]

You're not an advocate. You're a fanboy. The game tells us Arthas is wrong. We doomed different characters for less then the stuff Arthas did.

Not really. I just don't label everything as right or wrong in such a hasty manner.

The game tells us Arthas is wrong.

If that was the case, then it would be a bad story, which it isn't. The best books don't dare to impose a moral view over the reader, but rather expose the events and let him take his own perceptions. You think Arthas is 'evil', I don't, and neither of us are objectively wrong. That makes for a good, memorable story.

We doomed different characters for less then the stuff Arthas did.

That IS true. I can't argue, lol.

[Shiza]

It wasn't morally wrong precisely because it was necessary. He didn't betray his men but mercenaries. Not to mention he was a Prince, their commander and they were acceptable losses.

But I agree that disobeying Terenas was bad.

I mean, it was objectively morally wrong because you can't just run around and murder innocent civilians for being sick, especially not if you are the future head of state. And he still betrayed his mercenaries and his men, considering that they wanted to return home and had orders from their and his king to return home.

He did pretty bad stuff, but I still think that Anduin is worse. I mean, doing extreme and morally wrong things is bad, but actually lending your entire trope strength to a genocidal war criminal instead of your longterm military ally and afterwards making the public statement that victims of genocide who demand justice for their people are mentally ill is really, really sick and psychotic.

[agentsi]

Talk about beating a dead horse.

He was held accountable when we killed him at Icecrown. End of story, no need for this thread.

[Shiza]

The game tells us Arthas is wrong.

But the writers are objectively wrong and unable to differenciate between good and wrong, so we have to approach Warcraft with death of the author, if we don't want to preach the most problematic stuff. Remember, we are talking about a writing team where one member of the staff made the public statement that she things that a man who rather supports a genocidal war criminal than his long-term ally and who paints justified female anger after a genocide as the woman as women being mentally unstable and hysterical as a role model for non-toxic masculinity. The writing indicates that the writers consider survivors of genocide who demand justice for the crimes commited on them as vengeful and unstable.

If that was the case, then it would be a bad story, which it isn't. The best books don't dare to impose a moral view over the reader, but rather expose the events and let him take his own perceptions. You think Arthas is 'evil', I don't, and neither of us are objectively wrong. That makes for a good, memorable story. Sometimes the morals that a medium spread can be just wrong from a healthy moral perspective.

[Destinas]

Arthas certainly did things wrong before he had Frostmourne/became the Lich King. The Culling of Stratholme was before all that, for instance. He was warned by Jaina and Uther that it was, y'know, probably a bad idea. But it's important to remember that even though it was a horrible act, he did it thinking he was giving an entire city mercy. His intention wasn't to cause the most damage to the city for the hell of it, he truly believed that he was helping his people by preventing them from becoming mindless Scourge, and he wanted to stop the Scourge as well. Even at the end of CoS, he went to Northrend to hunt down Mal'ganis, not join him.

However, he was manipulated on that path by Mal'ganis and Ner'zhul. Even the Light hesitated to bless his hammer when he became a paladin. There was something specifically dark in Arthas' heart that made him easy to manipulate in this way. After time, he literally threw away his heart under Icecrown to do more Scourgey stuff.

It's not entirely his fault, but he's not entirely without fault.

[Fetus Rex]

I mean, it was objectively morally wrong because you can't just run around and murder innocent civilians for being sick, especially not if you are the future head of state. And he still betrayed his mercenaries and his men, considering that they wanted to return home and had orders from their and his king to return home.

He did pretty bad stuff, but I still think that Anduin is worse. I mean, doing extreme and morally wrong things is bad, but actually lending your entire trope strength to a genocidal war criminal instead of your longterm military ally and afterwards making the public statement that victims of genocide who demand justice for their people are mentally ill is really, really sick and psychotic.

He did so to protect the whole kingdom. There is no wrong in that. That's not a betrayal but sacrifice of assets.

Naa, he really did nothing wrong before Frostmourne.

But I agree that Anduin is weak, pathetic and mentally unsound.

[Ardenaso]

The entire city of Stratholme turned undead after the campaign is over. The corpses made it easier for necromancers to work.

False. Kel'thuzad and the Cult of the Damned moved in after Lordaeron was Scourged completely.

What were you thinking the Silver Hand did in Lordaeron while Arthas and the 1st Legion was away?

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Everyone always makes a big deal that he betrayed the mercenaries, but was it really such a grave action? I mean, sure he was conniving, but those mercenaries were bloodthirsty trolls and ogres... he probably did the world a favour by getting rid of that trash.

I still prefer to think that those were Drakkari and the Human Trappers lorewise

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Talk about beating a dead horse.

He was held accountable when we killed him at Icecrown. End of story, no need for this thread.

I'm pretty sure OP meant about Arthas' soul in the Shadowlands in the perception of the Arbiter