Metzen and the tone shift of D3.

[SirBeef]

did/do people really hate the shift away from gothic/dark/horror to high fantasy? i didn't mind it too much as it kept a minor amount of dark aspects.

actually, now that i type that out, i understand. that's what diablo is all about and D3 had very minimal of any of it.

Was it really all High Fantasy though. There was plenty of Gothic Horror. Just because there was better and more lighting and a more colorful palette didn't mean the gothic elements weren't there. There were plenty of dark horror elements, bodies ripped apart, blood and gore, demons and such.

[Drynix]

I really don't get the hate for the new diablo design in D3. D1 and D2 diablo looked chunky and goofy, like a red godzilla. While D3 diablo looked sleek and sinister. I can see the appeal to both, but in my opinion the D3 diablo looks way more scary. But I guess some people can't look past the feminine design of D3 diablo and just want beefcake back.

[Egomaniac]

A lot of Metzen's work echoed that same personal transformation. I think one can argue the same true about the Horde turning from violent marauders to noble and misunderstood.

As for Diablo, I don't think that translated well. It was a world about gothic, demonic horror. A tonal shift made the franchise look cheesy.

Diablo was always a cheesy franchise

[Varodoc]

Prime Evil Diablo looks amazing, I don't get why people were complaining back in the day. I love how, being the Prime Evil, he looks like a fusion of all Seven Evils. It'd be weird if he still looked like a bulky brute, since Andariel was part of him. Plus I like how they went for a more "simplistic" design, in the sense that he's not this fucking huge godzilla monster but a more sleek, beautiful, and elegant creature. You don't need to be a dinosaur-sized colossus to cause fear in your enemies.

The only sad part is how little time this guy was on screen. He was defeated too quickly. Hopefully we'll see Diablo in his Prime Evil form again in D4. This certainly seems to be the case, since the Seven are still one within Diablo despite his body's destruction.

[Verdugo]

This certainly seems to be the case, since the Seven are still one within Diablo despite his body's destruction.

Except that they have shown Duriel in gameplay trailer and Andariel imprisoned in artwork.

[KrayZ33]

The only sad part is how little time this guy was on screen. He was defeated too quickly. Hopefully we'll see Diablo in his Prime Evil form again in D4. This certainly seems to be the case, since the Seven are still one within Diablo despite his body's destruction.

I think that's old "news" from 2014.
New material suggest that all the lords might return in D4 in one form or another.

And it would make more sense too imho.

[Kokolums]

Blizzard North hardly cared about their own lore. They had basic ideas but Metzen was the one who wrote those manuals. There's a book that delves into the relationship between BNorth and South. It was not good. Blizzard South created all the cinematics in D1 and D2. When they invited Blizzard North guy to give them opinions on cinematic, the north guy gave the impression that they didn't care.

https://www.diabloii.net/blog/commen...erview-excerpt

You're frame of reference is a bit off. Its not that they hardly cared. Its just that the industry standard for video game lore was MUCH lower in 1996 than today. This was a period where the N64 had just been released. Most people were playing 16-bit games like the SNES or Sega Genesis. People were just trying to make graphics look not totally embarrassing, let alone add deep lore. And even then, D1 had a little lore but mostly that game was "enter dungeon, descend level by level, kill and get loot".

Lore really became a thing between 1996 and 2000.

[Varodoc]

I think that's old "news" from 2014.
New material suggest that all the lords might return in D4 in one form or another.

And it would make more sense too imho.

They will get separated but it remains to be seen how. What we do know is that Diablo remained the Prime Evil after his defeat. This was stated by Blizzard itself and throughout RoS Tyrael always talks about Diablo, never mentioning the other six evils who became part of him.

[WraithKingOstarion]

Prime Evil Diablo looks amazing, I don't get why people were complaining back in the day.

most because of the shift from what he originally looked like. change in games makes gamers uneasy. i remember reading how, even back in 2012, blizz was selling out/pandering to SJWs for making diablo look more feminine and i even remember reading people thought they re-made diablo as a female altogether. of course this ended up being false but the rage remained on the --look-- and not the reason for the look. silly things to complain about.

Except that they have shown Duriel in gameplay trailer and Andariel imprisoned in artwork.

and they look amazing.

[kail]

Tyrael didn't turn human, he became mortal. Big difference.

So he becomes a mortal being that looks exactly like a human. In other words, a human.

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I really don't get the hate for the new diablo design in D3. D1 and D2 diablo looked chunky and goofy, like a red godzilla. While D3 diablo looked sleek and sinister. I can see the appeal to both, but in my opinion the D3 diablo looks way more scary. But I guess some people can't look past the feminine design of D3 diablo and just want beefcake back.

I could care less about Diablo's "gender", the new look is just too different from previous iterations. Imagine the Marvel Hulk suddenly looking like a green slender dude.

[derpkitteh]

i like the feminine prime-evil diablo.

it both satisfies my coomer brain, and makes him look more evil. nothing's more evil in these old religions than hermaphroditism.

[Thelyron]

i like the feminine prime-evil diablo.

it both satisfies my coomer brain, and makes him look more evil. nothing's more evil in these old religions than hermaphroditism.

There are female coomers? But i agree, female diablo looks really fucking cool.

[Clone]

Personally what makes a dark tone is not the amount of gore or tragedy. That's a bit superficial. Warcraft for example has a lot of dark moments like the Path of Glory but nobody would consider the game dark. The art style, atmosphere, and story presentation is what gave D2 its dark moody tone despite its many well lit areas.

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I could care less about Diablo's "gender", the new look is just too different from previous iterations. Imagine the Marvel Hulk suddenly looking like a green slender dude.

Pretty much this. I can't really give a fuck about some upstart artist wanting to do a HR Giger take on an existing character. Nor do I care for the organic vibe they are going for with Lilith in the cinematic.

[Varitok]

Diablo was always a cheesy franchise

In what way? I'd like to know.

[therealstegblob]

Tone wise I wouldn't say D2 was much darker than D3 either. Only diablo 1 had that feeling imho.

I didn't like Diablo 3 very much. Didn't like how it played, didn't like the crumby expanded "lore" (Diablo lore was never really good or anything but 3 took it to hammy new heights) and I'll say it definitely wasn't as "gritty" feeling as Diablo 2. As far as tone, I'd say they were about the same but I dunno if it was Diablo 2's grainier, darker graphics or what but it definitely feels a lot more grimmer and grittier than D3, which was far more colorful and vibrant in comparison.

[jackofwind]

So he becomes a mortal being that looks exactly like a human. In other words, a human.

Do you consider all mortal humanoids to be human? I feel like you might want to read some fantasy/sci-fi books.

[Biomega]

Pretty much this. I can't really give a fuck about some upstart artist wanting to do a HR Giger take on an existing character. Nor do I care for the organic vibe they are going for with Lilith in the cinematic.

I mean, aesthetic preference is subjective by definition, right?

Me personally, I like D3's aesthetic. The leaner version of Diablo worked well for me, and I didn't really care about the whole gender thing which I found rather irrelevant to the story. Similarly, I am absolutely loving the Lilith look we got to see in the trailer.

I understand that not everyone enjoys the same kind of aesthetic, but you can't design the same way you did in decades ago for D1/D2.

[Mirishka]

I really don't get the hate for the new diablo design in D3. D1 and D2 diablo looked chunky and goofy, like a red godzilla. While D3 diablo looked sleek and sinister. I can see the appeal to both, but in my opinion the D3 diablo looks way more scary. But I guess some people can't look past the feminine design of D3 diablo and just want beefcake back.

D3 Diablo was like Satan meets the Alien Queen. I loved her/it/whatever.

But yeah, the incels tend to squirm and feel insecure feelings whenever faced with something female in a game.

"OMG WIMENS CANT B DEMONS, WTF, SJWS RUINED DIABLO'

[jackofwind]

I didn't like Diablo 3 very much. Didn't like how it played, didn't like the crumby expanded "lore" (Diablo lore was never really good or anything but 3 took it to hammy new heights) and I'll say it definitely wasn't as "gritty" feeling as Diablo 2. As far as tone, I'd say they were about the same but I dunno if it was Diablo 2's grainier, darker graphics or what but it definitely feels a lot more grimmer and grittier than D3, which was far more colorful and vibrant in comparison.

I thin some of that does come down to what I call the "Caligari Effect".

So back in the day when a lot of people saw The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari for the first time (in the modern age of cinema) the film was in the public realm. This meant that any production company could rip a quick film version from some other source and then issue it on their own VHS tapes. This meant that these tapes were often rips of rips, with different soundtracks and drastically varying degrees of video quality.

As such, the first viewing for many people of the film was one of blurry figures, large tracts of black space on the film, and vague, ominous backdrops where the details all appeared to be just barely out of focus or sight which lent a sense of ambiguity to the film. Because it's a proto-horror film with deep ties to German Expressionism these factors lined up perfectly with the style of the original film, compounding the horror ambiance of the film.

Nowadays though the film has been re-released in full HS on official DVDs and Blu-Rays with the original cue cards and soundtrack, and that ambiance is gone - everything is clearly visible, you can see the sets move as characters interact with them, and there's little ominous ambiguity left. It's the same film, and in objectively better quality - but something gets lost in that transition to HD, a hard to pin down sense of scariness that's reduced because of the glossy hi-def finish.

That's what I feel happened with D2 and D3 with regards to graphics and gore. D3 is undeniably a gory game, arguably more so than D2 - but it's the bright polish and HD finish of the graphics that somehow render that gore less ominous, less scary, and less mood-setting.

That's what I think at least.

[jackofwind]

I agree, I cannot take it seriously

DIABLO LORD OF TERROR, ONE OF THE THREE PRIME EVILS WARS WITH THE ANGELS OF THE HIGH HEAVENS IN THE ETERNAL CONFLICT

Like alright man

That's not even particularly cheesy on a scale from 1 to Gorgonzola.