US signs peace deal with the Taliban.

[Kotuthan]

Looks like the graveyard of Empires gets to put another notch in its belt.
https://apnews.com/70626747d0b9ee4dec98042119efff98

Quick highlights of the agreement are.

- Withdraw of US, NATO Troops in 14 Months.
- The US will not interfere in the Afghan Domestic Affairs
- The US will refrain from using force against the territorial integrity of Afghanistan.
- Taliban members to be removed from Sanction list by May 29.
- Taliban Fighters to be released from Jail.

[Easo]

One more source, but now of course everyone is reporting this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51689443

I do not believe that this will hold. They will try to usurp power, they will again target women.
And... To anyone who believes that constant bombings did nothing - you are wrong. Americans have killed so many Taliban leaders that no one can count them and it has led to the group practically being splintered into many, many pieces. I have no reason to believe that all of those pieces will follow the deal and listen to the main leaders of Taliban.

It is just a matter of time for it all to go to hell once again.

[Acidbaron]

Was the Taliban as extreme as Al-Qaeda in their world vision? I mean we don't have to expect what we consider the norm considering women rights and all that.

A serious question, also isn't the taliban really just a series of tribes with no real person in charge and just local "chiefs", what is the reason why Afghanistan is so hard to conquer since its terrain makes it so everything is spread out and places are really independent on their own?

[ParanoiD84]

If only the afgan army wasnt a complete and utter joke they could get shit done themselves.

[Yadryonych]

Congratulations to all American vets coming back home, thanks for your service. It ultimately turned out being useless, but thanks anyway

[Xeones]

So Trump is giving up. Can't blame him, but it seems like we are just running since we will be the only ones following through with the agreement.

[Kreuger]

Its a war that cant be won, it will suck that after the pullout (if it happens..) that the taliban will probably once again rule the country. But cant say I dont understand/sympathise with americans that are deadtired of waging war for nothing.

[Draco-Onis]

Such a waste of money and lives, I mean was anyone dumb enough to think that we could win this?

[Breccia]

Quick highlights of the agreement are

I believe the Taliban will have their sanctions removed too. The sanctions they earned, by being a terrorist group.

[Paranoid Android]

Glad its over. Generally speaking I wanted our troops out.

But sorry Trumpkins, for all that you will want to boast as this is the greatest peace move in the history of earth and cry that just once we cant give Trump credit. Yet Trump basically gave up everything to the Taliban, including money to help build infrastructure (wtf!). If this was a Dem, you can't say you would eviscerate this. So grow some think skin. We don't know how in the future this will come back to bite us.

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I believe the Taliban will have their sanctions removed too. The sanctions they earned, by being a terrorist group.

Yeah they actually get money to build infrastructure.

[kail]

#NeverStopWinning

[Easo]

Was the Taliban as extreme as Al-Qaeda in their world vision? I mean we don't have to expect what we consider the norm considering women rights and all that.

A serious question, also isn't the taliban really just a series of tribes with no real person in charge and just local "chiefs", what is the reason why Afghanistan is so hard to conquer since its terrain makes it so everything is spread out and places are really independent on their own?

1. It depends. Does stoning women equals them? Because they did that. Same shit, different name. Just like with ISIS. Sure, there are degrees of insanity, but what does it matter when it stinks anyway?
2. Yes, but also no. They do have the main leaders, just like everywhere else in the world, but they are tribal and... often they are pakistanis (this is to remind couple bots here that Taliban are anything but freedom fighters).
As for hard to conquer. You see, West has this thing called rules of engagement aka do not shoot civvies, do not shoot blindly. And they have been conquered in the past, very successfully. It is absolute bullshit that they are "graveyard of the empires".

[jeezusisacasual]

To be honest the US military was never going to win in that situation from logistics but how has it helped push the American world view? Because in my honest viewpoint this was a pointless military parade of sorts that provided no real gain for the cost. Also for the political capital lost in the world for these horrific conflicts i expect extraordinary gains for the money involved in that portion of the nation and this appeasement to literal fucking terrorist group makes it all the easier to spit in the face of American military presence.

[CostinR]

More then anything it's a recognition of defeat by the United State. Very few will call it that, unless they are being snide assholes with a bone to pick with Trump, but it's a defeat.

Could the US destroy the Taliban? Absolutely if it was willing to deploy hundreds of thousands of men to wipe them out and even then it wouldn't matter long term because Pakistan would rebuild them. To deal with the Taliban you need to deal with Pakistan.

That's what this really boils down to: Pakistan will not back down from supporting these kind of groups because they view them as a critical weapon to use against India, to force Pakistan to change that calculus you'd be forced to take measures that would greatly anger them and throw them more or less in China's hands.

Afghanistan does not matter, not in an era of a new Cold War between China and the United States.

Because in my honest viewpoint this was a pointless military parade of sorts that provided no real gain for the cost.

It was the moment Bush decided that destroying Al-Qaeda wasn't enough and he had to engage in national building. America will be dealing with the idiocy of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars for decades to come. In some ways it wasn't anywhere near as bad as Vietnam but others? Far worse.

[Breccia]

More then anything it's a recognition of defeat by the United State. Very few will call it that, unless they are being snide assholes with a bone to pick with Trump, but it's a defeat.

I think you and @jeezusisacasual are setting up the basics here. The discussion will be "was this a good way out of a bad situation, or a bad way out of a bad situation?"

You know where I stand.

[CostinR]

I think you and @jeezusisacasual are setting up the basics here. The discussion will be "was this a good way out of a bad situation, or a bad way out of a bad situation?"

You know where I stand.

Oh I know where you stand and I'm going to leave the following comment here: The United States is not almighty and it's wasting tens of billions, yes that kind of ridiculous number, for a dumb war with no tangible benefit on the other side of the planet that has severely weakened them on a military level, because no nation in modern history has fought wars with that many troops involved for as long of a period as the United States has in Afghanistan.

I am not going to try and claim that what Trump is doing is a good way of leaving the conflict. No it's a bad way, at least if you're view is that the United States should make it a critical national objective to protect the democracy and human rights of the Afghan people.

Bush and Obama tried. They failed.

This is the message I hope Americans grasp about this entire situation: You lost, badly, and with a shameful end. There's no honorable end to this war, and there never was going to one, not unless the United States was willing to spend trillions to achieve "victory". Whatever that would mean in a nation far from your home with logistical lines dependent on the good will of nations surrounding Afghanistan.

I know people in Congress believe otherwise. Screw them. Twenty years of unmitigated foreign policy disasters should have taught them better.

[Breccia]

You lost, badly, and with a shameful end.

You will find my evidence refuting that in the space below;




Yeah. There's basically no contesting that it was a bad situation and there's no contesting that it was a bad ending. My feelings are
1) we shouldn't have been there in the first place, yes I said that at the time, the Taliban defended the guy who attacked us, but at the time they ruled the country. I would not have felt badly if we had just stomped the country's government and military flat, then left. Granted, maybe that's not a great plan either, but I think, looking back, it would be better than what we ended up with.
2) I still say this ending, specifically negotiating with these same terrorists, is worse than staying. You said there was no honorable end, and you're probably right. But, this is a dishonorable end by abandoning everything we built trying to help, and instead, giving the Taliban everything they wanted.

I feel the same way about this ending as I would feel about executing someone who stole millions of dollars. Stealing that much is a serious crime, but that's not the appropriate ending. It just makes us look like monsters.

[PACOX]

Good that we are getting out of an endless war but it does not seem like we will have achieved any thing. Meanwhile the Taliban walks away with a lot...

We should have withdrawn a long time ago though. Sunk costs fallacy?

What are the chances of a rebound before the 14 months are up?

[jeezusisacasual]

You will find my evidence refuting that in the space below;




Yeah. There's basically no contesting that it was a bad situation and there's no contesting that it was a bad ending. My feelings are
1) we shouldn't have been there in the first place, yes I said that at the time, the Taliban defended the guy who attacked us, but at the time they ruled the country. I would not have felt badly if we had just stomped the country's government and military flat, then left. Granted, maybe that's not a great plan either, but I think, looking back, it would be better than what we ended up with.
2) I still say this ending, specifically negotiating with these same terrorists, is worse than staying. You said there was no honorable end, and you're probably right. But, this is a dishonorable end by abandoning everything we built trying to help, and instead, giving the Taliban everything they wanted.

I feel the same way about this ending as I would feel about executing someone who stole millions of dollars. Stealing that much is a serious crime, but that's not the appropriate ending. It just makes us look like monsters.

This is my entire point i expect to gain something anything for not only the cost in the fiscal sense but the dead Americans who never got to see their future the same goes for the innocents who lost their lives due to the vile Taliban presence. I come from a Muslim family but neither myself nor my brother are sons of Islam and are largely agnostic before someone comes at me with that nonsense. But i agree with how you put it on what we should have done and then packed the tent and returned home the end, Nation building was pointless at best.

[Breccia]

What are the chances of a rebound before the 14 months are up?

Actually, my concern is the Taliban just letting whoever they want into Afghanistan and do whatever they want, and then claim ignorance. After all, the Taliban shielding a terrorist organization launching attacks at us is exactly why we went the first time.