If you had to pick one. Nationalism, Socialism?

[kail]

When Germans tried to genocide us it was nationalism that helped us survive.

It was actually nationalism that started the genocide and cooperation with other countries (the EU Allies and Russia) that helped us survive.

[Machismo]

Restricting the movement of labour & capital =/= socialism. You'd have to redefine "socialism" to mean, near as damnit, "any kind of government whatsoever*", which is a retarded definition.

*Lest you think I'm exaggerating, prison & taxes are both restrictions on the mobility of labour & capital respectively. Compulsory schooling, even if the only one doing the compelling is the parent, is a restriction on labour mobility too, come to think of it.


Nice to see that some other people get it.

Socialism has already been redefined, I'm simply going by the current usage of the word. Otherwise, there's basically no socialists, so the question is moot. Considering Bernie Sanders, and even the entire Democratic Party are called socialists, I'm simply using it in the current form. If we want to say that socialism is the government completely dominating the marketplace, and controlling all means of production, then fine. That just means socialists number in the dozens. We can then agree that Bernie Sanders, the Democrats, and all the governments in Europe are not socialist.

Or, we can say that socialism is about as common as live pink unicorns.

[Rozz]

This thread is more or less better suited in Politics considering the nature of current discussion. On that note, tone it down a bit and remember to stay civil.

[Cizr]

It was actually nationalism that started the genocide and cooperation with other countries (the EU Allies and Russia) that helped us survive.

Nationalism is not against cooperation with other countries.

Anyway I was refering to German attempts at germanization of my nation. Without rise of nationalism my nation would not exist today.

[Machismo]

Ok that's true but still has zero to do with nationalism. Nationalism is more personal than economical. Do you hold your country above all else and ignore its flaws? Congrats you fit in with nationalism.

Nationalism is often economical. It means immigration policies (social and economical), tariffs, and trade restrictions.

I do not hold my country above all else, and ignore its flaws.

[tromage2]

Nationalism for sure.
We seen what socialisme has brought to countries all over the world and it is not a good thing.

[Endus]

On the other hand german national socialism and then soviet socialism ruined our country.

The Nazis weren't actually socialist. https://www.britannica.com/story/wer...zis-socialists

They were "socialist" in the sense that North Korea is "democratic". They stuck it in their name as, essentially, a form of propaganda and a disguise to hide their intent. You'd have to unthinkingly believe Nazi propaganda to think the Nazis were actually socialist in any practical sense of the word.

[Beefhammer]

Please don't spread your conspiracy theory garbage here, it's against the rules.

As if comparing what Americans and Europeans consider socialism to communism, Marxism, or the straight up fascism of Nazi Germany and Italy has anything in common.

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The Nazis weren't actually socialist. https://www.britannica.com/story/wer...zis-socialists

They were "socialist" in the sense that North Korea is "democratic". They stuck it in their name as, essentially, a form of propaganda and a disguise to hide their intent. You'd have to unthinkingly believe Nazi propaganda to think the Nazis were actually socialist in any practical sense of the word.

So it seems the guy who had niazi symbolism as an avatar, who routinely shows he knows nothing of substance when it comes to American politics, doesn't even know what the Nazi party actually was. Motherfucking shocker!

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Nationalism for sure.
We seen what socialisme has brought to countries all over the world and it is not a good thing.

Counter that with the socialism in western Europe which works just well. So which is it?

[Milchshake]

If you had to pick one ideology in a elected official Nationalism, Socialism?

Between the two I’m going with socialism.

Thanks for this thread . So many of the nazi-adjacent posters just cant help outing themselves. Been awhile since we had one of these. Usually it's some Neo-Nazi rally or Neo-Confederate shindig that brings them out.

A parallel is how the gamergaters also cant help outing themselves. In one thread everyone is agreeing about healthcare, or stopping trump. Then it turns into a dog-pile on SJWs or Vegans for somehow ruining the expansion of Socialist Parties in the US.

It's been 5 long years, but the gators and friends-of-nazis are still here. MagicFind.com sure curates an interesting community.

[Cizr]

The Nazis weren't actually socialist. https://www.britannica.com/story/wer...zis-socialists

They were "socialist" in the sense that North Korea is "democratic". They stuck it in their name as, essentially, a form of propaganda and a disguise to hide their intent. You'd have to unthinkingly believe Nazi propaganda to think the Nazis were actually socialist in any practical sense of the word.

Maybe you can think that if you ignore their socialist policies :

expansion of welfare
universal healthcare
nationalisation of industries
leisure for workers
creating labour organization

Obviously today socialists dont want to be linked to previous socialists.

https://mises.org/library/why-nazism...m-totalitarian

[draynay]

The Nazis weren't actually socialist. https://www.britannica.com/story/wer...zis-socialists

They were "socialist" in the sense that North Korea is "democratic". They stuck it in their name as, essentially, a form of propaganda and a disguise to hide their intent. You'd have to unthinkingly believe Nazi propaganda to think the Nazis were actually socialist in any practical sense of the word.

Why would you want to have the same conversation with the same poster, again and again and again?

[JohnBrown1917]

The Nazis weren't actually socialist. https://www.britannica.com/story/wer...zis-socialists

They were "socialist" in the sense that North Korea is "democratic". They stuck it in their name as, essentially, a form of propaganda and a disguise to hide their intent. You'd have to unthinkingly believe Nazi propaganda to think the Nazis were actually socialist in any practical sense of the word.

He is just being dishonest, its just neo-nazi/fascist retoric to pretend the nazis where socialist. A certain American filmmaker would get along well with him.

[For_The_Horde]

Nationalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive. The opposite of nationalism is globalism, and the other end of socialism is capitalism. It's entirely possible to believe in extreme nationalism and socialism, or extreme nationalism and capitalism (both of which are responsible for the worst of government the world has ever seen). You all need to stop treating all politics like everything is a big line from left to right, the world isn't one dimensional.

[jeezusisacasual]

Every single nation on earth is a mixed economy to try and label them as purely one or another is very wrong and misleading with the aim of nothing but to cause fear porn. Should Capitalism be regulated to a point that it does not create kings? Absolutely but the current set of capitalism backers are not interested in that at all which why i think that we have such large swaths of dissent in the western world.

Keep capitalism, expand the floor and lower the ceiling and keep the wheels turning. Nationalism is a cancer that breeds a war like mentality that needs to die as a Muslim who is hated for no reason and as a ex-pat.

[tromage2]

Counter that with the socialism in western Europe which works just well. So which is it?

What are you talking about we got Capitalism and Nationalism structure in western Europe (it is just now Nationalism inside the EU borders)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
And non of these countries i would like to live in and i wonder why...

[Endus]

Maybe you can think that if you ignore their socialist policies :

expansion of welfare
universal healthcare
nationalisation of industries
leisure for workers
creating labour organization

Obviously today socialists dont want to be linked to previous socialists.

If that's your definition, then literally every single developed nation on the planet is "socialist", and it's that socialism that is what has led to the prosperity of the modern era.

Are you sure that's the argument you want to be making, here?

Plus, let's acknowledge that your source is an anarcho-capitalist think tank, and the author is a Randian objectivist; you're citing an extremist who's misrepresenting what socialist theory actually is.

[Jotaux]

That's not a strong argument though because the same argument is equally true in reverse form. For example;

"It's hilarious to see people screech about nationalism and the nation of Canada while currently enjoying the welfare hand-out their nation gives to him."

I didn't say anything about nationalism. Nor do I have interest in playing "whataboutism"

[JohnBrown1917]

Nationalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive. The opposite of nationalism is globalism, and the other end of socialism is capitalism. It's entirely possible to believe in extreme nationalism and socialism, or extreme nationalism and capitalism (both of which are responsible for the worst of government the world has ever seen). You all need to stop treating all politics like everything is a big line from left to right, the world isn't one dimensional.

Socialism is globalist by its own ideological belief system.

[Teleros]

it's that socialism that is what has led to the prosperity of the modern era.

Less "socialism" and more "unsustainable borrowing". Just wait until we find out we can't keep kicking the can down the road any longer.

[Endus]

Less "socialism" and more "unsustainable borrowing". Just wait until we find out we can't keep kicking the can down the road any longer.

Depends on the nation you're talking about. Canada went through a big push to pay down our national debt, and did, for years, back in the '90s. We still have debt, but it's a mangeable amount, and paying it down was broadly popular as a political move, too.

In our case, it's absolutely been sustainable, and we're still well within our capabilities to pay it down while maintaining services.