Should raid loggers get low prio on gear?

[Soimu]

no and the master loot is shit, personal loot is way better and should be in classic

[Dalinos]

no and the master loot is shit, personal loot is way better and should be in classic

Any guild that wants to gear up its members as a unit, as a group, as a collective, needs Master Looter. Or you'd get the fresh lvl 60 alt who just joined BWL because we have 7 warlock sign-ups and 6 mage sign-ups and we direly need an extra Rogue get Boots of the Shadow Flame over the main Rogues who carry the fights with their insane DPS. (No, the fresh lvl 60 alt doesn't need Boots of the Shadow Flame)

[ellieg]

There is no contradiction - if anything, it's you guys contradicting yourselves.

"Raid logging is perfectly fine & respectable" "Noone said a guild of 40 raid loggers could actually exist without the officer-team doing all the logistics".

Please link the quote of someone who was " heralding Raid-Logging as the best type of behaviour".

[Nite92]

There is no contradiction - if anything, it's you guys contradicting yourselves.

"Raid logging is perfectly fine & respectable" "Noone said a guild of 40 raid loggers could actually exist without the officer-team doing all the logistics".

There is, you say that the statement "raidlogging is fine" is equal to "raidlogging is the best option". Which is not true.

[bloodwulf]

Can you successfully raid without the raid-loggers?
- If yes, Then low priority on gear.
- If no, Then equal priority on gear.


Its classic. You don't need flasks to raid, so farming is optional. As long as they are showing up, performing, and not bottom tier performers in the raid, then you shouldn't do anything to punish them.

[Dalinos]

There is, you say that the statement "raidlogging is fine" is equal to "raidlogging is the best option". Which is not true.

But when I asked what would happen to a guild consisting of 40 raid loggers, who log in at 19:28 and log off at 22:02, and stay logged off for the full week, noone answered. I'm still waiting for that answer. Since, as you all proclaim, "Raid-logging is totally fine", then a guild of 40 raid-loggers who EXCLUSIVELY log on to raid, should be a successful guild, no?

[ellieg]

But when I asked what would happen to a guild consisting of 40 raid loggers, who log in at 19:28 and log off at 22:02, and stay logged off for the full week, noone answered. I'm still waiting for that answer. Since, as you all proclaim, "Raid-logging is totally fine", then a guild of 40 raid-loggers who EXCLUSIVELY log on to raid, should be a successful guild, no?

So all 40 players are required to give the same exact amount of effort outside of raid? Or can some give less and some give more? Depending on the level of effort they feel like giving

[Milfshaked]

But when I asked what would happen to a guild consisting of 40 raid loggers, who log in at 19:28 and log off at 22:02, and stay logged off for the full week, noone answered. I'm still waiting for that answer. Since, as you all proclaim, "Raid-logging is totally fine", then a guild of 40 raid-loggers who EXCLUSIVELY log on to raid, should be a successful guild, no?

The guild being successful or not has far more to do with the players in the guild than raid logging or not. A guild with 40 raid loggers that all know how to play would be a successful guild. A guild with 40 clueless people that play all week would not be a successful guild.

[TJ]

Yeah what people really deserve when they get home from a hard days work is to log on WoW and get told they don't get loot in raids because they don't have time to log on every night to camp flight masters and laugh at memes with 19 year old kids who have no responsibilities.

What this guy said. I've got an alt to keep me busy and also enjoy gold farming, other people don't, and I have no problem with that.

[Nite92]

But when I asked what would happen to a guild consisting of 40 raid loggers, who log in at 19:28 and log off at 22:02, and stay logged off for the full week, noone answered. I'm still waiting for that answer. Since, as you all proclaim, "Raid-logging is totally fine", then a guild of 40 raid-loggers who EXCLUSIVELY log on to raid, should be a successful guild, no?

No it probably would fail, but a guild of 40 raidleaders would also fail.

The world is not only black and white.

Btw, you just acknowledged that you were contradicting yourself.

[clevin]

Should raid loggers get low priority on gear? No.
Should some other people get higher priority on gear? Probably.

I want you to go think about this for a moment. Go ahead, we'll wait.

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But when I asked what would happen to a guild consisting of 40 raid loggers, who log in at 19:28 and log off at 22:02, and stay logged off for the full week, noone answered. I'm still waiting for that answer. Since, as you all proclaim, "Raid-logging is totally fine", then a guild of 40 raid-loggers who EXCLUSIVELY log on to raid, should be a successful guild, no?

What would happen to them as a guild or as a raid? They'd be fine as a raid (presuming they geared in pre-BIS to start MC). As a guild... they might be fine, they might disband. Guilds are partly communities... but there's nothing saying you can't have a good community just based on the interactions during a raid.

Of course, this has nothing to do with loot from a raid. Loot is a tool to help the raid. Raidloggers who are pulling their weight in the raid are just as valuable in the raid as anyone else and the RL who denies them loot is simply hurting the raid. After all, if I raid log but help kill bosses and then get told I'm not getting loot because I don't farm or do whatever else the RL thinks I should do loses me as a raider. That takes my contribution in killing bosses from something to nothing.

[arkanon]

Should raid loggers get low priority on gear? No.
Should some other people get higher priority on gear? Probably.

I just dont even know what to say about this to be honest.

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But when I asked what would happen to a guild consisting of 40 raid loggers, who log in at 19:28 and log off at 22:02, and stay logged off for the full week, noone answered. I'm still waiting for that answer. Since, as you all proclaim, "Raid-logging is totally fine", then a guild of 40 raid-loggers who EXCLUSIVELY log on to raid, should be a successful guild, no?

Classic guild is roughly 75% raid loggers. Others are mostly playing alts etc Alt raid guild is probably 90% raid loggers. Retail guild is probably 50% raid loggers. At one point, i would say we got close to 90% raid loggers, and happily continued raiding twice a week with no issue. I genuinely dont see any issues with it at all.

Obviously if you are a guild chasing top 10% kills etc, your guild may have higher requirements, and that is absolutely fine. Secondly, if you are advertising your guild as a social guild, but it is mostly raid loggers, you will probably have a tough time with player retention, but thats an issue with how you choose to advertise your guild, not raid logging.

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I never asked for extra loot, nor did I ever say I deserve more loot than them. I'll say it for the 15th time, in hopes that people understand where I'm coming from.

It takes more than logging in for a raid and performing adequately to keep a raiding guild up & running smoothly with little to no drama. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. All you people heralding Raid-Logging as the best kind of behaviour in this game forget that Raid-logging (I.E, being on time, with consumables, with tactics in mind, and performing adequately) is the MINIMUM REQUIRED from ANY RAIDER.

Stop heralding Raid-Logging as the best type of behaviour and I'll stop reminding you of all the shit that goes on behind the scenes that ALLOW these raid-loggers to simply Log on, Raid, Log off again. The more you spam that "Raid logging is fine", the more I'll spam that "But actually....".

Edit: and before you ask, because it's been asked before, NO, my current guild in Classic does NOT have any raid-loggers, even a dude who's doing his Master's degree while simultaneously raising twins has time to log on his lvl 60 HUNTER ALT and do SOLO DM TRIBUTE RUNS for his gold.

And there are numerous guilds proving all your aggressive statements false. A few of us raid in a particular guild and the overwhelming majoirty of the members of this team are raid loggers. Things are going absolutely fine, and the system works really well for people who are busy, have other hobbies, play retail etc etc. We log in 20 mins before raid, talk some shit, have some laughs, start the raid, drink some beers, talk some shit, kill the bosses, get some loot, and when its all done, we log off and catch up a few days later for the next raid.

If the content were challenging and had tough requirements, that might change, but its not, so its really not an issue at all.

[callipygoustp]

A good rule of thumb is that anytime you disagree with how someone is playing the game, you lower their priority for loot. Learn it, live it, love it. Result: enjoy your healthy raid team.

[agentsi]

General hot topic is the large amount of raid loggers each guild has and the hidden animosity that brews between them and general players. They might login once or twice a week to raid and then are gone the rest of the week. Not helping the guild in anyway but still getting the same priority on gear that every day players get.

Should they get the same priority on gear since they assisted in the kills or would the gear be wasted on someone who only uses the gear to raid and rarely is on to help the guild out with other parts of the game.

This sounds like a personal vendetta against some guildies.

If they're doing their job come raid night, and they're performing as they should. What's your issue? The fact that they don't like the other aspects of the game as much as you?

Outside of PvP, there is nothing to do in classic other than raid. Some people have lives, families, etc. Forcing folks to log in and help guildies should only be a requirement if everyone agrees to it. But if you're clearing BWL, what other content do you need help with? Alts?

Personally, it sounds like some raid loggers in your guild are better overall players than some non-raid loggers in your guild and they're rewarded in kind. As they should be. I've never been a fan of giving this item to so and so because its a bigger upgrade, it should go to the person who put in the time and will get the most out of it.

[msdos]

What's weird is being elemental, carrying your heal set around, healing as frequently as you do DPS, without changing specs, but then getting lower prio on loot over resto shams even though you still 8/8 BWL every night.

I should get as much prio on Lok'amir as resto shamans. It's just bizarre how badly Elemental is treated, even worse than Boomkin. The one person who is actually trying to prove themselves on meter is also denied loot lol. You're denying loot to your most try hard and flexible player basically. The only thing I can think of more flexible is probably a paladin?

[ablock87]

If you log on just to raid and hope to get the dank purples, then yes, you will get a lower priority than someone who has
- Put effort into farming their preraid BIS/best dungeon blues
- Contributed more to the guild via dungeon runs, farming, mats provided, etc
- Actually plays the game outside of the 2-3 hours a week inside a raid instance

[Dalinos]

If you log on just to raid and hope to get the dank purples, then yes, you will get a lower priority than someone who has
- Put effort into farming their preraid BIS/best dungeon blues
- Contributed more to the guild via dungeon runs, farming, mats provided, etc
- Actually plays the game outside of the 2-3 hours a week inside a raid instance

That last sentence is the important one, for me. I don't WANT people in my guild who play 2-3h/week. I WANT an active guild, with active members, who do things, play alts, do dungeons, have rep-farming sessions, the whole lot. If I wanted to Raid PURELY, I would still be on Retail - the raids there are much more interesting. If I wanted to parse high, I would be playing Batman: Arkham Knight on the PS4 and climbing its leaderboard. I'd be speed-running Dark Souls 1-3 if I wanted a mechanics challenge. But that's NOT why one plays an MMO. An MMO is there for the community, for the group, for the guild/clan.

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I just dont even know what to say about this to be honest.

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Classic guild is roughly 75% raid loggers. Others are mostly playing alts etc Alt raid guild is probably 90% raid loggers. Retail guild is probably 50% raid loggers. At one point, i would say we got close to 90% raid loggers, and happily continued raiding twice a week with no issue. I genuinely dont see any issues with it at all.

Obviously if you are a guild chasing top 10% kills etc, your guild may have higher requirements, and that is absolutely fine. Secondly, if you are advertising your guild as a social guild, but it is mostly raid loggers, you will probably have a tough time with player retention, but thats an issue with how you choose to advertise your guild, not raid logging.

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And there are numerous guilds proving all your aggressive statements false. A few of us raid in a particular guild and the overwhelming majoirty of the members of this team are raid loggers. Things are going absolutely fine, and the system works really well for people who are busy, have other hobbies, play retail etc etc. We log in 20 mins before raid, talk some shit, have some laughs, start the raid, drink some beers, talk some shit, kill the bosses, get some loot, and when its all done, we log off and catch up a few days later for the next raid.

If the content were challenging and had tough requirements, that might change, but its not, so its really not an issue at all.

That's cool & all..you do you...I just find it depressing to log on on a non-raid day and see 3 ppl online. I prefer my guild, which has basicly 0 raid loggers (various levels of activity, but NOONE, literally NOONE logs on JUST to raid) where I press O on an off-day and see 20 people online playing the game we all love.

[Necromantic]

No, absolutely not.

If it is a requirement to also log on and do mythic plus with the guild or to contribute mats weekly, then that needs to be made clear within the guilds rules.

and from what i remember about raiding, just being a reliable person that you know is actually going to make it to the raids every week is indeed very "helpful"

That's why guilds should define their requirements. It's a double-edged sword to "punish" someone for something they're not aware of.