What can the Horde do to make amends?

[matrix123mko]

Complete and utter disregard for the reason why people stopped following the mass murdering psychopath, but ye... not unexpected. The Horde leadership would like to stop being the bad guys for one expansion, but the playerbase wants to keep being evuuul, so they make up this nonesense about their reasons.

Horde did all they could to save Azeroth for two last expansion. As always, Alliance attacked them in the most dire time. Horde leadership, however, for some reasons wants to stand by while their subjects are slaughtered by Alliance forces.

Your logic is painful. If Vol'jin is an usurper then Sylvanas who got made Warchief BY HIM is obviously not legitimate either... but I guess everything goes in defending her.

This is clear sign of your ignorance. Sylvanas legally claimed her title when Warchief Geya'rah sworn loyalty to her.

Don't worry you will be back to slaughtering innocents soon enough and Baine will again not do anything for halve an expansion cycle. It is funny how you want to have someone lead that spits on the core ideals of the Horde and goes as far as to manipulate one of the most important rituals you folks have for personal power. Basically it shows that you do not care one bit about the Horde, you just want to be evuul, no matter on which side and for whom you gotta work.

Magatha's disregard of rituals shows how practical person she is. Mak'gora is the way to choose the strongest for the Warchief but there are other ways to maintain the strength. Warchief Orgrim(in original story) claimed his power by silent assassination of previous Warchief. He knew that honor is secondary value after survival, the reason Horde was created.

Oh the Draenei still got plenty genocided in WoD, most of their cities were destroyed with Shadowmoon Valley remaining as the last bastion. The only difference is that this time we managed to jump in before the Orcs could finish them and that the Orcs did not require demonic corruption to go on mindless killing sprees, they just do it because of the fun of slaughtering innocents.

The expansion starts with Gul'dan imprisoned, so we know that it was after war with Draenei started. In main universe Horde started the war without fel power too. They had reasons to believe that Draenei are planning an invasion against them so they did a couple of preemptive strikes.

As we can see, although Velen didn't plan an invasion, other Draenei are more than happy to kill.

[yani9841]

Yep, treason against an undead psychopath that literally wants to send every living being into super hell to suffer for all eternity is definately harder to justify then clear and blatant genocide.

A storyline that was literally unexplored or stated until long after said treason was exhibited.

Are you Sylvanas-apologists even hearing your own words anymore?

You raving fanbois need to take a moment before jumping on people. Take a moment and reassess events. War of thorns works up, war is open because armies are fielded and marching. there is no talk of genocide, beyond the normal fighting banter that literally every faction has done. Fighting through ashenvale and darkshore had NO detailed secret missives in any capacity and "war on life" or "war on hope" were exclusively Night Elf death cries in the game files. We don't get a hint of "psycho undead leader" until PATCHES later and can't "confirm" it really until Alliance are at the gates of Orgrimmar again.... But that's a problem with how the story was told.

Sylvanas. Wanted. To. Kill. You. All. She literally states as much to you and wanted Azshara to kill YOU, her so-called champion.

So does Jaina, and Genn showed as much interest in playing nice... Fact is the story railroaded this without providing evidence if you didn't play the loyalist route.

It is so obvious which side of the Horde is correct in their choices that Blizzard did not even think of including the loyalist option,

This plays off more that blizz wrote so obviously wrote this for one side.... not so much that one side is more correct.

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Unaffiliated natives that supported military personnel the Alliance was engaged with in a war, to said natives knowledge.

I still think that doesn't justify the attacks on or killing of said natives...

Locals that raided Alliance territory in the past, and also aided and participated in incursions into territories of a nation allied with the Alliance.

This would be like saying a nation that joined up with goblins is entirely justified in sacking Stormwind and killing humans wantonly because SI:7 is a bunch of assholes...

No formal declarations are possible since the two nations don't have diplomatic relations with each other.

This is a very poor excuse cause nothing was even TRIED.

In the past, the Zandalari have attacked Alliance personnel without aggression or provocation multiple times.

In the past we worked together to clear Hakkar out of Zul Gurub and shared locations in Zul'drak during the events of the Northrend Campaign. Cataclysm was a weird event where teh troll nations were trying to expand.... Mop was Zandalari attacking Pandaria and the first attack was not the zandalari attacking our bases....

[Raisei]

*looks at alliance in BFA*

Torching homes of unaffiliated natives.

If you mean the Zandalari then there are several reasons why they should be attacked. But this time it was because they were protecting a mass murderer. Besides Dazar'Alor is a fortified city, not like Brennadan that was attacked because Sylvanas felt like it. Plus the Alliance did not set fire to the city or murder any civilians there.

Blowing up boats and sacking territory of locals.

no formal declarations until invading capitol and threatening leadership after the fact.

Blowing up a fleet that has already attacked and sunk several Alliance vessels that were persuing escaped fugitives, you mean.

From a legit standpoint, at least the horde declared war before fucking up a nation. I'd dial it back with assuming faction are want to act a certain way when it's more obvious the writing team wants to paint factions a certain way. Alliance gets free reign to act in more blatantly villainous ways that have absolutely no repercussions except for late stage edits to unit names that we the players are catching *eyes on them purge squads*.... Sure there's the association to horde forces as a barely justifiable reason, but fact still remains the benevolent good guys of the story thus far didn't bother acknowledging forces before diving head first into delivering their "justice" for their perceived sleights against forces that were not involved.

When was that declaration? Must have missed it. I very much remember that Sylvanas tricked and surprised the Night Elves by attacking Darkshore, how did that work when she apparently declared her intention formally?

And I suppose those "villanous ways" mean Dalaran... again... because the death of a few Belfs (in before "but it was a bloody afair!!") outweighs the two cities the Horde has flattened in less then 10 years.

As long as I see not a sliver of remorse over the warcrimes commited by the Horde I will keep assuming they do not really care. They only start worrying when they suddenly loose and the time for punishment comes. Then suddenly no one was responsible except the suspiciously absent leader they have been following willingly.
Jaina is constantly guilt ridden for the Purge (and she barelly killed any Belfs), I have not seen anyone in the Horde give a crap about helping to build the Manabomb or firing the catapults on Teldrassil.

[Varodoc]

1 city and 1 kingdom. Teldrassil was not just a city but an entire magical kingdom with many towns dotting its landscape.

[Skulltaker]

I still think that doesn't justify the attacks on or killing of said natives...



This would be like saying a nation that joined up with goblins is entirely justified in sacking Stormwind and killing humans wantonly because SI:7 is a bunch of assholes...

This is a very poor excuse cause nothing was even TRIED.


In the past we worked together to clear Hakkar out of Zul Gurub and shared locations in Zul'drak during the events of the Northrend Campaign. Cataclysm was a weird event where teh troll nations were trying to expand.... Mop was Zandalari attacking Pandaria and the first attack was not the zandalari attacking our bases....

Really? Try supporting and harboring military personnel of someone the US is engaged within an open conflict, see how well that goes for you.

SI7 isn't Military, though. The Zandalari military engaged in open warfare with Alliance held territories and engaged Alliance naval forces without so much as a warning. Seeing how the Zandalari have been the aggressors of multiple conflicts and made no attempt to remedy said situation.

We worked together once. In every other instance, the Zandalari have openly engaged both Horde and Alliance on multiple occasions. They are a remnant of a once-great Empire that has been shown to be willing to destroy or subdue other civilizations just to cling their way back to an actual Empire, from allying themselves with genocidal tyrants to outright open warfare.

They have been outright aggressive to every other nation in the past decades and quiet frankly had it coming. They allied themselves against a stronger foe, knowing full-well what that meant, entered a war while dramatically underestimating/overestimating the capabilities of their opponents/their own capabilities, and got their teeth kicked in. Frankly, they got off lucky. If the Alliance had any capable commander they would have razed ZulDazar to the ground, and Azeroth would have been better off for it.

[Specialka]

They don't need to, all who supported Sylvanas are dead or in chains, and she herself is on the run, soon to meet her fate. The real Horde led by Saurfang helped facilitate this. Anduin, Thrall and Baine all understand Azeroth > the Alliance and Horde.

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The Horde lost Lordaeron

Which is a city. And if you meant Tirisfal glades, the Horde had time to evacuate the civilians anyway.

[Varodoc]

Which is a city. And if you meant Tirisfal glades, the Horde had time to evacuate the civilians anyway.

They still control Deathknell, Calston Estate, and Bulwark in Tirisfal. So many civilians are still there.

[Tarba]

Is this a sarcastic comment? Because every time there has been a time of peace, lately, it's the horde who attack first.

The last time of peace ended when genn commanded the alliance to an airforce strike and an assassination attempt against the horde and their warchief while the legion was trying to destroy the world.

Else we were at war since Thrall and Jaina started it in Vanilla.

[Maljinwo]

The best the Horde could do is disband

[Raisei]

They don't need to, all who supported Sylvanas are dead or in chains, and she herself is on the run, soon to meet her fate. The real Horde led by Saurfang helped facilitate this. Anduin, Thrall and Baine all understand Azeroth > the Alliance and Horde.

Sadly that is just not the case. The PC loyalists are roaming completely free through Orgrimmar with Baine even defending them and making the people that actually want them punished and ostracized shut up... and there are some hidden NPCs too that whisper about their true loyalties. That they are not all executed on the spot and simply forgiven despite eagerly murdering in the name of their dark lady is ridiculous.

[Ardenaso]

Horde getting playable Vulperas is the punishment and the penance

Explain to me how the Alliance is going to a "tyrannical" regime.

'Cuz I'm personally hoping for a Tyrandical regime.

I'm really hoping since 8.1 to see Tyrande and Malfurion force Anduin off the throne and take the leadership of the Alliance from him

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(the Royal Apothecaries should all without exception be executed, or should have been for years), instead of just forgetting about all the monstrous acts they willingly carried out in her name. I mean there are still spies and traitors in Orgrimmar at this moment.

I still can't fathom why Garrosh didn't dismantle them in the first place or Varian tried to hold them accountable given he personally witnessed their evil inhumane acts

[omeomorfismo]

If you mean the Zandalari then there are several reasons why they should be attacked. But this time it was because they were protecting a mass murderer. Besides Dazar'Alor is a fortified city, not like Brennadan that was attacked because Sylvanas felt like it. Plus the Alliance did not set fire to the city or murder any civilians there.

rotfl, litterally the first thing you see in the raid are molten giants in the bazar summoned by the alliance.
thats setting fire and killing civilians while committing one of the few recognized warcrime in the setting

[Ardenaso]

Only who really would be ok with extrermination of orcs and undeads would be Alleria and Tyrande atm so realistically no.

Danath Trollbane, Akama, Arechron, Vereesa Windrunner

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What the horde can do? Are you joking? mischaracterization, being completely stripped from his own theme, having almost all important characters died isn't enough for you?

Hitler, Mao, Churchill, Truman, Tojo, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot are dead; therefore their military can now go scot-free

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Both Velen and Tyralyon spend literal millenia on trying to exterminate the Burning Legion... Velen has shown himself to be quite unforgiving when dealing with his former people

those are... demons. Also, Velen was the one who vouched for the Broken back to their fold

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One day, ogrimmar shall burn with righteous fire.

When the last rotting corpse stops moving, when the last greenskin takes its final breath, we shall have peace, and not a moment before.

I'd like to remind everyone here before the Dark Portal was opened the human nations were almost to have a war; much easier with Daval and Katrana going around. So no, the Horde needs to exist to keep the Alliance together

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So much for the ancient knowledgeable leadership that went to shit in MoP cause a barely 30 year old human had to take center stage.

Have "a little patience" now, shall we?

[yani9841]

If you mean the Zandalari

Vulpari... you know the desert nomads who were just sitting in the deserts minding their own business....

Blowing up a fleet that has already attacked and sunk several Alliance vessels that were persuing escaped fugitives, you mean.

The alliance vessels that STORMED the bay of Dazar'alor firing on a zandalari ship in sight of the coast?

When was that declaration? Must have missed it. I very much remember that Sylvanas tricked and surprised the Night Elves by attacking Darkshore, how did that work when she apparently declared her intention formally?

Fine, thuogh I'm fairly certain the not hiding the massing of troops posturing to move on Silithus while the alliance was simultaneously sending a military fleet south shows that there was no sudden hostilities.

And I suppose those "villanous ways" mean Dalaran... again... because the death of a few Belfs (in before "but it was a bloody afair!!") outweighs the two cities the Horde has flattened in less then 10 years.

The alliance has a number of just plain stupid 'criminal' acts that just get white washed or forgotten cause people want to point out Theramore and Teldrassil... Dalaran isn't the only purge done under the golden lion's banner. A tribe of Tauren wiped out by dwarves because dwarves have to dig up ruins. Fel casters torching nomads' dwellings. Sacking a city that isn't affiliated because it MIGHT be an enemies' ally. aggressive Intel gathering for no reaosn more than someone MIGHT be doing something with no concrete evidence (because they haven't killed enough people to get the intel). Unprovoked attacks because of past greivances... and YES, a "provocation" from YEARS prior does not constitute a legit reason to attack later in a different conflict with entirely different forces involved....

Alliance story gets Genn's/Rogers' stormheim ambush with no repercussions while calling on the horde to account for EVERY LITTLE SKIRMISH...

As long as I see not a sliver of remorse over the warcrimes commited by the Horde ANYONE I will keep assuming they do not really care.

Let me change one part of this phrase to showcase my position... cause the horde isn't the only one at fault and is not the only one lacking remorse as a faction...

Jaina is constantly guilt ridden for the Purge (and she barelly killed any Belfs)

and trying to sack Orgrimmar... and trying to join the fight at Lordaeron ignorant of events... and her seeming to flip flop on her own position concerning her father's murder... and her oblivious stance of how retarded she is for her actions at Dalaran considering they mirror her own position at Theramore. IMO Jaina is fucked up because of MORE than jusr the purge.

, I have not seen anyone in the Horde give a crap about helping to build the Manabomb or firing the catapults on Teldrassil.

funny.. the writers don't seem too keen on showing that either.

[Ardenaso]

They had reasons to believe that Draenei are planning an invasion against them so they did a couple of preemptive strikes.

holy shit man

[Varodoc]

Genocide = A couple of preemptive strikes. That's Horde fanboys' logic to you

[Ardenaso]

*looks at alliance in BFA*

Torching homes of unaffiliated natives.

Blowing up boats and sacking territory of locals.

no formal declarations until invading capitol and threatening leadership after the fact.

Didn't know Brennadam, Quel'lithien, Ambermill, Pyrewood, and Gilneas were Horde territories

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and trying to sack Orgrimmar...

idk, if my forces were destroyed by a nuke then my civilians were hauled off to be turned as target practices I would definitely seek revenge

[Varodoc]

Didn't know Brennadam, Quel'lithien, Ambermill, and Gilneas were Horde territories

Didn't you hear Rexxar? Stormsong is rightful Horde land. The vile Kul Tirans must be purged.

[Voidwielder]

March to Tanaris and die.

[Unholyground]

I will never say sorry as I am a male Orc and don't make mistakes.