Turkey opens borders, thousands of migrants headed for western europe

[d00mGuArD]

If you ever wanted peace, you would have gone in and killed the guy and his band of thugs years ago and this would have been over before it even started and you wouldn't have millions of refugees flooding the world. He decided to burn his country just to stay in power. The world was okay with that because they were afraid of the unknown power void if they simply deleted him off the map (not sure what would have been worse than what already happened between ISIS emerging and all the chaos, I don't see any power void doing anything worse than what have already happened). It's Assad first to blame, and the world second for not removing him and Russia/Iran third for supporting him and finally there is Turkey? Really? Nope, I can't blame Turkey for anything when everyone can end the war even faster whether by Assad stepping aside or Nato deleting him in 2 days.

Funny that you mention ISIS. We (that is france) did send some help in Syria. We carried out bombings under Opération Chammal to help the kurds beat ISIL.
Turns out Turkey is now attacking the same guys we helped(!) which means they are helping ISIS by killing ISIS enemies.

And NATO? There is no way NATO will send help to the guys at idlib. They are recognised by the UN (and by turkey themselves) as terrorist group (yes turkey themselves recognize them as terrorists)
Funny thing helping ISIS on east syria and the al-nusra guys in west syria. See a pattern there?
It is crazy talk to expect any legitimate country to help turkey support terrorists. And well... no one is!

Don't you find it at least bit strange that no country is willing to help get rid of the evil dictator? Are they all wrong? Everyone else is wrong and turkey does the right thing? (even turkey is not asking to get rid of assad. only that they stay in idlib - only you are asking assad to step down) Think about it a bit.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

But Assad can simply stop the war as well. He's not just the one to blame for it, he's the one doing the offensive again ... even more, Assad can simply start a peace process with a democratic transition now and end the war and there will be no more killing and the millions of refugees can go back to Syria. No one, no one can end the war faster than Assad when he decides he's willing to step aside and start a peace process and a democratic transition. No matter how you spin this, Assad is the one to blame for the start and continuation of the war. While Erdogan might no have Syria's best interest in mind, the one really fucking up Syria is Assad and by a large margin. We should stop ignoring this fact.

I'd call doubts on his ability to stop the war by stepping down. Given the fact that the oppositions were a quagmire of competing militias and terrorist groups with as many agendas and allegiance.

The only country where it did not went South is Tunisia, which already had the most open culture in that corner of the World, as well as reasonably standard institutions.

Egypt transitioned to a democracy that ended up toppled by the army in part due to the formers fundamentalist inclinations.

Libya where local militias, massively supported by western airpower and supplies, after toppling Gaddafi, is still in a civil war, with many militias holding on their power, and its ripples are still being felt in Africa and Italy.

[Stelio Kontos]

Looks like Turkey's giving up trying to cause problems on the Greek border after seeing their little games weren't gonna do shit.

https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/03/1...-greek-border/

I'm sure this is not the end of Erdogan and his ilk trying to recreate the Ottoman Empire (something no one in the region wants, not the Balkans, not the Arabs, no one), but for now he's been thwarted.

It's been a bad couple of weeks for Erdogan. He failed at the Greek border.

He also got humiliated in the cease-fire deal with Russia.

https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-russia/...e-empty-handed

They even made the Turkish delegation stand under the statue of Catherine II (the empress who crushed the Ottoman Empire in the Russo-Turkish War) after being made to wait for Putin to meet with them.



He's also facing an internal mutiny as one of his long-time allies, Ali Babacan, launches a new party to oppose the Wannabe Sultan.

https://www.ft.com/content/8d4666b8-...3-fe4680ea68b5

So for now, the fool's been humbled, let's see if he keeps making trouble in the islands or with Cyprus. Unfortunately, Turkish forces still occupy Rojava and parts of Idlib, though.

[Ihavewaffles]

-snip-

and behind them...

Of course it’s coincidence: Kremlin spokesman denies trolling Erdogan with bronzework of Russo-Turkish war.

https://www.rt.com/russia/482509-put...lock-trolling/
6 Mar, 2020 14:37

Some believe the Kremlin wanted to rattle Turkey’s President by placing him next to a work of art depicting a crushing Ottoman defeat at the hands of the Russians, but Vladimir Putin's spokesman says it was pure coincidence.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan visited Moscow on Thursday to discuss with the Russian President ways to deescalate tensions in Syria’s Idlib province. When Putin and his guest were briefing the media, a clock was visible on the mantelpiece behind their backs. The instrument is decorated with a bronze group sculpture called ‘Crossing the Balkans’.

Made by artist Eugene Lanceray in 1880, the work shows Russian troops crossing over the Balkan Mountains during the Russian-Turkish war a few years prior. The war, incidentally, ended in a humiliating defeat for the Ottomans, who lost control over large swathes of their Balkan territories.

While some people instantly jumped to the conclusion that the clock must have been placed there deliberately as a reminder to Erdogan, Dmitry Peskov said this was not the case. “Of course it was a coincidence,” he assured reporters, adding that the piece of art has been in the room for about two decades.

The trolling theory may be appealing to Russian nationalists, but should be taken with a grain of salt even by those who wouldn’t take Peskov’s word on it. Lanceray, who despite his French name was a Russian artist, is not as internationally famous as Michelangelo or Rodin, so it's unlikely Erdogan instantly recognized this particular work and was able to decipher the alleged signal.

If anything, the Turkish leader could have had an issue with another statue he could see in the Kremlin. In the corner of the room is a big monument to Catherine the Great, the 18th century Russian Empress credited with wrestling Crimea from the Turks during the three decades of her rule. It can be seen in some of the photos of the state visit.

Anyway, if the Turkish leader had any strong feelings about the interior of the Kremlin, he probably wouldn’t share it with the public, so we may only guess whether he considers himself to have been trolled.


March 5, 2020. Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan during a meeting © Sputnik / Sergey Guneev

I wouldn't want to play poker against Putin...

[derpkitteh]

and behind them...



I wouldn't want to play poker against Putin...

this is like what he did with merkel, bringing his dog into their meeting that time.

i'm starting to really like putin lately. i'm sorry i ever really bought into all the propaganda around him.

[Slant]

and behind them...



I wouldn't want to play poker against Putin...

I wouldn't either, Botox should be considered doping for poker players.

[Ihavewaffles]

I wouldn't either, Botox should be considered doping for poker players.

They use botox?...

...humans........

[Slant]

They use botox?...

...humans........

I don't know, but Putin certainly does. Dude's old af, doesn't look half his age.

[Ihavewaffles]

I don't know

They probably do, with lots of money at stake, humans will do anything..

[derpkitteh]

I don't know, but Putin certainly does. Dude's old af, doesn't look half his age.

idk. kinda just looks like the average older russian guy to me. i don't really think he's had much work done, if any.

a lot of russian men look almost just like him. thick cheek skin, smaller eyes. how old even is he? probably mid-late 60's?

[Ihavewaffles]

Putin is 67, Biden is 11 years older, Bernie a hundred

[Mormolyce]

Turkey has opened the borders and is transporting syrian refugees to greece with busses and taxi’s. What impact Will this have?

A lot of bigots will masturbate furiously over it online, meanwhile it won't make any real difference.

We are legally and morally obligated to accept refugees. The amount Western countries accept is a pittance compared to what the Middle East absorbs. A lot of whining about nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know, but Putin certainly does. Dude's old af, doesn't look half his age.

They probably do edit the photos of him lol. Despots need to maintain their fake veneer of power somehow.

But no, he looks like a 60 year old man.

[Slant]

A lot of bigots will masturbate furiously over it online, meanwhile it won't make any real difference.

We are legally and morally obligated to accept refugees. The amount Western countries accept is a pittance compared to what the Middle East absorbs. A lot of whining about nothing.

Not sure about that, chief. Turkey is not a country where you can be a refugee from. By legal definition of the Geneva convention, none of the people at the border qualify to be a refugee. Technically, they are ex-refugees, because they found refuge in Turkey. Beautiful things, legal texts.

About moral obligations.. debatable, I think it's of higher moral interest to avoid a rise of neonazis. Avoiding Nazi Germany pt. 2 is of paramount importance to Germany and most likely of above average interest to anyone around us. Especially East Europe. I support closing the borders based on the Corona measurements, but even those aside I'd support it only to take the wind out of the sails of the far right. Am I giving in to their radical demands? Sure, a tiny bit. The alternative is to let them run rampant through our media once more with fake news about increased crimes and rape stories every single goddamn day.

[josykay]

The vast majority of those claiming to be refugees aren't actually considered as such in our laws. We also have no moral obligation to hurt ourselves so others can exploit the hospitality.

Doesn't change the fact, that a state just can not declare the right for asylum temporary void.
However, meanwhile, I think, Erdogan has undermined his own effords, by repeadedly talking about migrants, instead of refugees, which would of course give Greece, and the rest of the EU a broad justification to refusing entry.

[d00mGuArD]

Doesn't change the fact, that a state just can not declare the right for asylum temporary void.
However, meanwhile, I think, Erdogan has undermined his own effords, by repeadedly talking about migrants, instead of refugees, which would of course give Greece, and the rest of the EU a broad justification to refusing entry.

The borders are closed because of the virus.
If the immigrants break the quarantine they endanger the lives of the population.
It is 100% unacceptable.

Void asylum is the least of what should be done to people that break quarantines in times like these. Add 10-15 years in prison in my opinion.

[Xarkan]

The borders are closed because of the virus.
If the immigrants break the quarantine they endanger the lives of the population.
It is 100% unacceptable.

Void asylum is the least of what should be done to people that break quarantines in times like these. Add 10-15 years in prison in my opinion.

The borders were not closed (to begin with) because of any virus.. and without Corona they would not have been allowed entry.

Corona is only marginally relevant here

[josykay]

States can change whatever laws they have in their state.

Except first of all, no, they still have to adhere to silly things like the constitution, and would still have to go through the governental bodies. And secondly, they did not change the law. They just said they would void it it for a month. Which is a violation of basic human rights, that are enshrined by the constitution.

[josykay]

Sounds more like you're complaining a democracy made a democratic decision you don't like. Must really sting in your eyes when democracy ends up at another outcome than what you'd like.

Where was there a "democratic" decision first of all?
Also... to void right for asylum per se is just horrendous, and was at best a short sighted statement, that was, as damaging for the greeks, as was it for Erdogan, to call those people "migrants" instead of refugee, because it signaled "We shit on human rights, the moment, people might depend on it." They could have rejected asylum claims easily on the basis, that those people were in Turkey, a safe third country, and seemingly also living their already for some time, so already have asylum granted in the first place by turkey, so they are turkey's responsibility.

[Xarkan]

Sounds more like you're complaining a democracy made a democratic decision you don't like. Must really sting in your eyes when democracy ends up at another outcome than what you'd like.

Governments have to obey the law as well though until it is changed, they cannot just ignore the laws.. or well they can but they should not be allowed to

To allow that would set a dangerous precedent. Take a gander at what the Swedish constitution says the government cannot do and imagine if they just decided to violate it in regards to your life.

Not sure if they went against their constitution in this particular instance obviously, i have no idea what the greek constitution says.

[Mormolyce]

The vast majority of those claiming to be refugees aren't actually considered as such in our laws. We also have no moral obligation to hurt ourselves so others can exploit the hospitality.

Please provide the stats you consulted to reach this conclusion.

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure about that, chief.

The things you guys aren't sure about could fill an encyclopedia.

You are of course wrong on all counts as usual. You can be a refugee from Turkey like any country, but that's irrelevant in any case because these are not refugees from Turkey. You'd know that if you'd read anything about this issue, which of course you haven't.

Don't you ever stop to think that it wouldn't be so easy for me to dunk on you if you took five seconds of your time to actually understand the thread topic before venturing an embarrassing uninformed opinion?

And yes countries do have a moral obligation to accept refugees, the fact that you personally have no morals is also irrelevant.