Unsanitized: Bailouts, A Tradition Unlike Any Other

[Theodarzna]

https://www.socialistpartyusa.net/

There is one. Nobody is stopping you from voting for any candidates they have on your ballot. Because expecting the US to elect actual socialists right now is living in a world of pure fantasy. And not the Willy Wonka kind, unfortunately.

Okay, lets then discuss; I am critical of the Democrats especially because they present themselves as this "Lefty" party and indeed most of its current core loyal voter base likes to present themselves as such; you act like I murdered a child when I point out that ideologically they aren't Left-Wing at all, definitely not on economic policy and they can't even do the bare minimum like a Universal Health Care program which the party largely opposes and even its uber alles voters such as yourself really don't care to see happen but will profess a support for it and demand people who care about those issues "Vote Blue" despite that party not being down for those issues.

So which is it? Is the Democratic party some wonderful ultra-resistance against evil RETHUGLICAN MEGA FASCISM or are they a centrist or even center-right party of Intersectional Reaganomics?

EDIT: You seem to both despise the idea that anyone would suggest that the Democratic Party and the Republican party are relatively similar in ideological terms, but then laugh out loud with incredulity than anyone would expect a political party to be substantively different. Or, as the Healthcare discussion we had went, you say you are for something but not in any defined sense. Like "I'm for World Peace" ... "Okay great lets get to it" "Well, hey its hard, and takes time, and you know it'll be 100's of years before we get there.... Its gunna be awhile, we can't vote in some crazy world peace candidate, that's just unpragmatic!" you aren't really in serious terms for something.

Or to put it another way, say someone says they are Pro-Life, but doesn't want abortion legal because sometimes abortions might be necessary, is that person really pro-life?

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That says absolutely nothing.

Cool, Idk what answer you are fishing for.

[Beefhammer]

Okay, lets then discuss; I am critical of the Democrats especially because they present themselves as this "Lefty" party and indeed most of its current core loyal voter base likes to present themselves as such; you act like I murdered a child when I point out that ideologically they aren't Left-Wing at all, definitely not on economic policy and they can't even do the bare minimum like a Universal Health Care program which the party largely opposes and even its uber alles voters such as yourself really don't care to see happen but will profess a support for it and demand people who care about those issues "Vote Blue" despite that party not being down for those issues.

So which is it? Is the Democratic party some wonderful ultra-resistance against evil RETHUGLICAN MEGA FASCISM or are they a centrist or even center-right party of Intersectional Reaganomics?

EDIT: You seem to both despise the idea that anyone would suggest that the Democratic Party and the Republican party are relatively similar in ideological terms, but then laugh out loud with incredulity than anyone would expect a political party to be substantively different. Or, as the Healthcare discussion we had went, you say you are for something but not in any defined sense. Like "I'm for World Peace" ... "Okay great lets get to it" "Well, hey its hard, and takes time, and you know it'll be 100's of years before we get there.... Its gunna be awhile, we can't vote in some crazy world peace candidate, that's just unpragmatic!" you aren't really in serious terms for something.

Or to put it another way, say someone says they are Pro-Life, but doesn't want abortion legal because sometimes abortions might be necessary, is that person really pro-life?

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Cool, Idk what answer you are fishing for.

You want a viable socialist party. Socialism is a broad term and could mean many things. You could go into some specifics about what policies you want to see.

[Theodarzna]

You want a viable socialist party. Socialism is a broad term and could mean many things. You could go into some specifics about what policies you want to see.

Here, I'll give you this, I want political parties of some sort of substance and difference, I've spelled out policies before, such as Universal Health Care, VAT and Wealth Taxes, ending private prisons, UBI (Even that isn't necessarily a socialist idea), empowered unions, indeed full unionization across the board of all labour would be preferable and the nationalization of say internet, telecoms, ect. Nobody here of-course cares when I post about those topics; or rightly point out at that the DNC isn't about to do any of them and even has actively worked against all of them for the last 30+ years.

[lockedout]

I thought the article I read said no one voiced a nay vote? But thats a good point. It could be possible "no" votes just stayed silent.

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Oh please. If she did anything to hold up the bill you'd be here posting about how she's politicizing a crisis and hurting million of people because of her vendetta against Trump. You people are so obnoxiously obvious.

One republican voted no.

[Shadowferal]

One republican voted no.

Yeah, that shithead Thomas Massie.

[Theodarzna]

Yeah, that shithead Thomas Massie.

Yes, how dare anyone demand that ones stance on this bill be on the record. *eye roll*

[Shadowferal]

Yes, how dare anyone demand that ones stance on this bill be on the record. *eye roll*

He was deliberately stalling for no reason other than his ego.

[Theodarzna]

He was deliberately stalling for no reason other than his ego.

Had no idea Democrats were so eager to give Boeing a metric ton of free money as well as the Trump admin a 4-6 Trillion dollar slush fund.... neat.

[Draco-Onis]

Had no idea Democrats were so eager to give Boeing a metric ton of free money as well as the Trump admin a 4-6 Trillion dollar slush fund.... neat.

Since it turns out he had COVID-19 seems he was just being a giant asshole.

[Beefhammer]

Had no idea Democrats were so eager to give Boeing a metric ton of free money as well as the Trump admin a 4-6 Trillion dollar slush fund.... neat.

It's called compromise. It's the cornerstone to legislation. Something the GOP has forgotten over the years. The people needed something, the GOP was offering not much while allowing the poorer citizens suffer more mor no reason. The Dems got the $1200 for all, expanded UE for those that qualify and expanded who qualified, independent oversight over the funds, transparency for where those funds are going, restrictions on shitty buyback policies for those getting help, and restricted thise in federal government from receiving any of that aid.

In return, Boeing gets some cash and the bill gets passed. Now, the Dems could have stonewalled it and families could have gone longer without aid possibly never getting anything. And you really want to both sides this issue.

[Levelfive]

I thought the article I read said no one voiced a nay vote? But thats a good point. It could be possible "no" votes just stayed silent.

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Oh please. If she did anything to hold up the bill you'd be here posting about how she's politicizing a crisis and hurting million of people because of her vendetta against Trump. You people are so obnoxiously obvious.

Nope, I'd be pretty damn happy that finally she did something.

But thanks for playing.

Also Theo:

Steve Mnuchin is talking about giving $1000 to every American, and Chuck Schumer's proposed policy is some mamby pamby let small business owners apply for a low-interest loans for short term boosts to small company’s cash flow. Like, dude, the GOP just outflanked the DNC to the Left.

Democrats could not be more comically inept. Every proposal other than the much hated Bernard Sander's proposal is a tax credit or low-interest loans and all of buried under fifty different levels of means-testing that ensures no one actually gets it.

And I really don't care if Bill Gates also gets a check, given we are all getting 1000 bucks, just cut the damn check and stop stalling.

[Shadowferal]

Had no idea Democrats were so eager to give Boeing a metric ton of free money as well as the Trump admin a 4-6 Trillion dollar slush fund.... neat.

Compromise...
But lets not overlook this Massie that your defending voted for those tax cuts in 2017 that everyone knew was a bad idea.

[Vash The Stampede]

What would president Bernie Sanders do in this instance?

He can't write the legislation. He can't force the House/Senate to vote on it.

He could veto the bill. But how popular do you think that would be?

The important thing is that he presents a solution. If the House/Senate won't pass it then that's a different issue. Trump isn't presenting a solution, because he's the problem. Biden isn't presenting a solution because he forgot how.

[Edge-]

The important thing is that he presents a solution. If the House/Senate won't pass it then that's a different issue.

So he presents a "solution" that will never actually exist, meaning nothing is changed from what we're getting now and...that's somehow different?

Trump isn't presenting a solution, because he's the problem. Biden isn't presenting a solution because he forgot how.

Biden is running for president. As Sanders is. Neither has the ability to do fuckall right now.

So your feelings would change, but in reality nothing with the bill would be much different. Which is what I was getting at.

[Theodarzna]

Since it turns out he had COVID-19 seems he was just being a giant asshole.

How so? I mean, nothing in the relief bill even covers COVID-19 treatment, heck very little of this bill has anything to do with the outbreak and the overwhelming lopsided majority of its spending is to give a massive amount of money to vast powerful conglomerates and financial institutions with basically no oversight and immune to FOIA requests.

Idk, why you'd go to bat for that, but hey, I guess that's "Progressive" now.

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It's called compromise. It's the cornerstone to legislation. Something the GOP has forgotten over the years. The people needed something, the GOP was offering not much while allowing the poorer citizens suffer more mor no reason. The Dems got the $1200 for all, expanded UE for those that qualify and expanded who qualified, independent oversight over the funds, transparency for where those funds are going, restrictions on shitty buyback policies for those getting help, and restricted thise in federal government from receiving any of that aid.

In return, Boeing gets some cash and the bill gets passed. Now, the Dems could have stonewalled it and families could have gone longer without aid possibly never getting anything. And you really want to both sides this issue.

Compromise? The overwhelming majority of that bill is money for vast and powerful corporations and financiers. NONE of it is to pay for COVID-19 treatment, a sliver is LOANS, no money, just LOANS for small businesses that could easily take weeks to get and only work if they keep all their staff (Hint the big players who get almost all of the money don't have that string attached so Wal-Mart can fire at will). Oh, and in 3 weeks to 4 months some Americans might get 1200 in means tested one time check.

Wow.... what a compromise. Amazing. Also poorer citizens don't even get the 1200 check. The only kind of achievement is unemployment insurance, which takes forever.

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Also Theo:

We aren't getting a check, we are getting a means tested rebate on tax returns, for some people that won't arrive for four months. There is a difference between a check of just helicopter money and means tested, attached to ones taxes at some later date and also with a 4 trillion to 6 trillion dollar fleecing of the country on top.

Like, yeah I support the minimum wage going up, do I want to also legalize pedophilia as a compromise to keep the Epstein Billionaires happy? No.... I don't.

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Compromise...
But lets not overlook this Massie that your defending voted for those tax cuts in 2017 that everyone knew was a bad idea.

A compromise in which a WORSE version then what was proposed is given, and 4-6 trillion dollars is given over almost entirely to the most powerful corporations and financiers on earth, is essentially like asking for a min. wage increase to 15.... and then settling for 13 and bosses can now legally beat, rape, and hunt their employees for sport and calling it a compromise.

[Levelfive]

snip

What you say, and discussion with you generally, is pretty meaningless, only partly because some non-zero percent of the time, it's not even you saying it.

I was pointing out your run-of-the-mill hypocrisy / disingenuous / lies to someone else. I'm not interested in your--or whoever's--response.

[unfilteredJW]

What you say, and discussion with you generally, is pretty meaningless, only partly because some non-zero percent of the time, it's not even you saying it.

I was pointing out your run-of-the-mill hypocrisy / disingenuous / lies to someone else. I'm not interested in your--or whoever's--response.

I like to google what they type to see who they are getting the information from. Can’t imagine needing to lie to anonymous posters to validate myself.

Only the paragraphs that contain their usually condescending word salad seem to be theirs.

[Beefhammer]

How so? I mean, nothing in the relief bill even covers COVID-19 treatment, heck very little of this bill has anything to do with the outbreak and the overwhelming lopsided majority of its spending is to give a massive amount of money to vast powerful conglomerates and financial institutions with basically no oversight and immune to FOIA requests.

Idk, why you'd go to bat for that, but hey, I guess that's "Progressive" now.

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Compromise? The overwhelming majority of that bill is money for vast and powerful corporations and financiers. NONE of it is to pay for COVID-19 treatment, a sliver is LOANS, no money, just LOANS for small businesses that could easily take weeks to get and only work if they keep all their staff (Hint the big players who get almost all of the money don't have that string attached so Wal-Mart can fire at will). Oh, and in 3 weeks to 4 months some Americans might get 1200 in means tested one time check.

Wow.... what a compromise. Amazing. Also poorer citizens don't even get the 1200 check. The only kind of achievement is unemployment insurance, which takes forever.

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We aren't getting a check, we are getting a means tested rebate on tax returns, for some people that won't arrive for four months. There is a difference between a check of just helicopter money and means tested, attached to ones taxes at some later date and also with a 4 trillion to 6 trillion dollar fleecing of the country on top.

Like, yeah I support the minimum wage going up, do I want to also legalize pedophilia as a compromise to keep the Epstein Billionaires happy? No.... I don't.

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A compromise in which a WORSE version then what was proposed is given, and 4-6 trillion dollars is given over almost entirely to the most powerful corporations and financiers on earth, is essentially like asking for a min. wage increase to 15.... and then settling for 13 and bosses can now legally beat, rape, and hunt their employees for sport and calling it a compromise.

This bill in particular had nothing to do with treatment. It was to give relief to families and corporations suffering due to shutdowns.

[Levelfive]

I like to google what they type to see who they are getting the information from. Can’t imagine needing to lie to anonymous posters to validate myself.

Only the paragraphs that contain their usually condescending word salad seem to be theirs.

At the risk of giving away how I know when to google...yeah, agreed.

[Theodarzna]

This bill in particular had nothing to do with treatment. It was to give relief to families and corporations suffering due to shutdowns.

The corporations that got nearly all of the relief had no need of it, the small businesses and individuals who need it got basically nothing and its means tested and delayed. I do hope Wal-Mart and Goldman Sachs see's this post and your allegiance is recognized.