How do u want TBC handled?

[Relapses]

Neither option.

Server Split Timeline
• On TBC launch, a 1 to 1 mirror of your server is created. For example, me on Pagle I'd log in the minute TBC launches and see Pagle, and Pagle (TBC). All characters, gold, etc are exactly the same on each. One remains Classic, one has TBC activated.
• The two are completely separate and progress on one does not affect the other or have any correlation.
• Why this method? Because on Day 1 of TBC we didn't roll new level ones. We didn't roll premade 60s. We played one the characters we'd built for years with all the resources we'd accrued.
• Transfers don't replicate this because if I have to choose who leaves and who stays, I'm losing access to those alts professions, gold, etc. - all things that wouldn't have been the case in TBC. We shouldn't have to make the call on whether playing one means losing everything on the other.

• When Wrath eventually comes out, those servers (Pagle (WotLK)) will be made from a snapshot of the previous TBC server.

This idea isn't terrible but it will leave the "mirrored" Classic servers mostly dead at TBC launch and likely completely and totally dead in six months. Blizzard doesn't seem to ever want to merge dead/dying realms so this leaves these servers in a kind of weird state of limbo.

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But those players would come back anyway?

I meant it in the sense that this decision would isolate the remaining hardcore Classic players who'd rather quit the game entirely than move on with TBC.

[erifwodahs]

Neither option.

Server Split Timeline
• On TBC launch, a 1 to 1 mirror of your server is created. For example, me on Pagle I'd log in the minute TBC launches and see Pagle, and Pagle (TBC). All characters, gold, etc are exactly the same on each. One remains Classic, one has TBC activated.
• The two are completely separate and progress on one does not affect the other or have any correlation.
• Why this method? Because on Day 1 of TBC we didn't roll new level ones. We didn't roll premade 60s. We played one the characters we'd built for years with all the resources we'd accrued.
• Transfers don't replicate this because if I have to choose who leaves and who stays, I'm losing access to those alts professions, gold, etc. - all things that wouldn't have been the case in TBC. We shouldn't have to make the call on whether playing one means losing everything on the other.

• When Wrath eventually comes out, those servers (Pagle (WotLK)) will be made from a snapshot of the previous TBC server.

I am sorry mate, but I did not want classic servers, I did not ask for it and I am fine with players having it, but what I am not fine is that I wanted TBC servers and now people who will be able to afford epic flying on level up and not even talking about just copying their characters so they can keep playing both. It did not happen during original timeline - when you purchased TBC, there was no going back to level 61 anymore.
Also, copy paste tactic would have severe effects on "no changes" classic servers as pre-tbc period ppl would gather mats like crazy, esp for JC. And those servers would be affected and all the players who never signed up for anything more than classic.

[Redroniksre]

They have the entire landmasses of BC and WoTLK and all associated assets before things would start looking weird.

So you would want them to just...reuse the landmasses? What is the point might as well just go with TBC and WotLK then, it would be the same thing. If you are talking about new landmasses using those textures that still will require level designers and encounter designers.

[erifwodahs]

What I would say is the best solution is to launch TBC "pre-patch realms" where they have all 2.x.x (whichever they will use) mechanics, but you can't access outlands or go beyond 60. All classic content is in final classic server phase. You would be able to play there for a month or 6 weeks before TBC launches so everyone would be on kind of on the same ground. After tbc launches, players would be able to copy/transfer their classic characters but limited with max 1k gold per all characters combined and no mats/consums would be allowed so economy does not get broken by hoarding players.

[NineSpine]

This idea isn't terrible but it will leave the "mirrored" Classic servers mostly dead at TBC launch and likely completely and totally dead in six months. Blizzard doesn't seem to ever want to merge dead/dying realms so this leaves these servers in a kind of weird state of limbo.

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I meant it in the sense that this decision would isolate the remaining hardcore Classic players who'd rather quit the game entirely than move on with TBC.

For all intents and purposes, connected realms are merged realms. With cross realm grouping technology, merging realms is unnecessary. Had those technologies never developed, Blizzard May well have actually merged realms, and since Classic is incompatible with those technologies, there is no reason to believe that they will act the same as they have with access to them.

[Relapses]

What I would say is the best solution is to launch TBC "pre-patch realms" where they have all 2.x.x (whichever they will use) mechanics, but you can't access outlands or go beyond 60. All classic content is in final classic server phase. You would be able to play there for a month or 6 weeks before TBC launches so everyone would be on kind of on the same ground. After tbc launches, players would be able to copy/transfer their classic characters but limited with max 1k gold per all characters combined and no mats/consums would be allowed so economy does not get broken by hoarding players.

People would find ways to skirt around that "1k max" rule and the economy would still be fucked.

[NineSpine]

So you would want them to just...reuse the landmasses? What is the point might as well just go with TBC and WotLK then, it would be the same thing. If you are talking about new landmasses using those textures that still will require level designers and encounter designers.

Level designers and encounter designers are a fraction of the development teams. Significant portions of classic were designed by one or two people. One guy made Karazhan.

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People would find ways to skirt around that "1k max" rule and the economy would still be fucked.

I don’t know where this weird concern about money from classic coming to TBC comes from. You guys all know that money came from vanilla to TBC right?

[Redroniksre]

Level designers and encounter designers are a fraction of the development teams. Significant portions of classic were designed by one or two people. One guy made Karazhan.

From BFA, ive been able to find and count around 14 level designers. Multiple level designers will work on one zone, it is not a one to one thing. Vanilla also took a metric ton of years to complete, so yeah if you want to wait a few years for new content by all means, but anything faster requires more level/encounter designers. By the point it becomes "why couldn't we just do this for retail" especially since we didn't even get a new zone in 8.3

[Relapses]

For all intents and purposes, connected realms are merged realms. With cross realm grouping technology, merging realms is unnecessary. Had those technologies never developed, Blizzard May well have actually merged realms, and since Classic is incompatible with those technologies, there is no reason to believe that they will act the same as they have with access to them.

Eh, Blizzard's own definition seems at odds with that:

Connected Realms also allow us to link populations in a way that’s not disruptive to players, and that doesn’t negatively impact players’ sense of identity and character. Other alternatives such as merging realms would require us to force character name changes if there were conflicts, and could lead to confusion for returning players who’d log in to find their realm missing from the realm list. Some players also feel strong ties to their realm’s name or history, and we don’t want to erase that.

That said, I'll concede if Blizzard does go through with a method similar to the idea I quoted I can see connected realms fixing the issue of dead/dying realms. This is a pretty big if though. (#SomeChanges?) Something tells me they'd rather let the realms die off and dangle paid transfers as the temporary solution (since that's the current solution on retail).

[Akibaboy]

I am sorry mate, but I did not want classic servers, I did not ask for it and I am fine with players having it, but what I am not fine is that I wanted TBC servers and now people who will be able to afford epic flying on level up and not even talking about just copying their characters so they can keep playing both. It did not happen during original timeline - when you purchased TBC, there was no going back to level 61 anymore.
Also, copy paste tactic would have severe effects on "no changes" classic servers as pre-tbc period ppl would gather mats like crazy, esp for JC. And those servers would be affected and all the players who never signed up for anything more than classic.

Despite adverse effects that maybe 1% of people will exploit, it's the most authentic method of hopping into TBC - it's built on the foundation of Classic.
• If you don't preserve both, then you'll have people asking for Classic all over again
• If you force people to choose which one their character is on, you're fragmenting guilds and players who may want to stay on Classic
• If you don't do the mirror system, you won't keep your names, your guilds, everything

When TBC hit, we all knew Jewelcrafting was coming. We all knew flying was coming and it was going to be expensive (Not to mention the amount of gold you get in TBC makes gold farming in Classic just a massive grind and waste of time so more power to anyone who feels like doing that). We all knew what was coming and just played as normal. A few insane streamers gaming the system and it being seen publicly doesn't change the fact that 99% of the players will just play normally... just like everyone said how streamers and exploiters were going to ruin entire Classic servers and it never happened.

[NineSpine]

Eh, Blizzard's own definition seems at odds with that:

Connected Realms also allow us to link populations in a way that’s not disruptive to players, and that doesn’t negatively impact players’ sense of identity and character. Other alternatives such as merging realms would require us to force character name changes if there were conflicts, and could lead to confusion for returning players who’d log in to find their realm missing from the realm list. Some players also feel strong ties to their realm’s name or history, and we don’t want to erase that.

That said, I'll concede if Blizzard does go through with a method similar to the idea I quoted I can see connected realms fixing the issue of dead/dying realms. This is a pretty big if though. (#SomeChanges?) Something tells me they'd rather let the realms die off and dangle paid transfers as the temporary solution (since that's the current solution on retail).

The quote you are using is about why they did connected realms rather than merges. Without connected realms being an option, the point of that quote is moot.

[Kithelle]

Not interested in BC but if they release WotLK yes, they would probably be smart to leave the servers independent of each other or else where do they stop?

[Relapses]

The quote you are using is about why they did connected realms rather than merges. Without connected realms being an option, the point of that quote is moot.

Bro, you said Connected Realms are effectively the same as merges. They're not. I'm not even arguing the fact that the technology exists and it makes sense to use it, that much is obvious.

[NineSpine]

From BFA, ive been able to find and count around 14 level designers. Multiple level designers will work on one zone, it is not a one to one thing. Vanilla also took a metric ton of years to complete, so yeah if you want to wait a few years for new content by all means, but anything faster requires more level/encounter designers. By the point it becomes "why couldn't we just do this for retail" especially since we didn't even get a new zone in 8.3

BFAs content is significantly more detailed than classic.

BFA needs to design new levels. Classic+ doesn’t.

Classic+ could just reuse massive amounts of content. Nobody needs to redesign Kara.

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Bro, you said Connected Realms are effectively the same as merges. They're not. I'm not even arguing the fact that the technology exists and it makes sense to use it, that much is obvious.

For all intents and purposes, Connected realms are the same as merged. They just lack a lot of the downsides, which is why they were done instead of merges. Since connected realms are not possible for classic, we can’t use the lack of merges in retail as proof they won’t merge classic realms. The connected realm alternative doesn’t exist.

[Relapses]

When TBC hit, we all knew Jewelcrafting was coming. We all knew flying was coming and it was going to be expensive (Not to mention the amount of gold you get in TBC makes gold farming in Classic just a massive grind and waste of time so more power to anyone who feels like doing that). We all knew what was coming and just played as normal. A few insane streamers gaming the system and it being seen publicly doesn't change the fact that 99% of the players will just play normally... just like everyone said how streamers and exploiters were going to ruin entire Classic servers and it never happened.

The only reservation I have with an imbalanced economy is that it will lead TBC into mirroring retail with its prevalence of boost runs. It's not exactly a bad thing (I don't mind it in retail, I wouldn't mind it in TBC), it just... y'know, kind of detracts from the authenticity is all.

[Redroniksre]

BFAs content is significantly more detailed than classic.

BFA needs to design new levels. Classic+ doesn’t.

Classic+ could just reuse massive amounts of content. Nobody needs to redesign Kara.

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For all intents and purposes, Connected realms are the same as merged. They just lack a lot of the downsides, which is why they were done instead of merges. Since connected realms are not possible for classic, we can’t use the lack of merges in retail as proof they won’t merge classic realms. The connected realm alternative doesn’t exist.

Right, but you might as well just go with TBC in that case. If you reuse Kara that means all the encounters would have to be the same as well, just tuned down. And reusing landmasses and models, well again, that is just a case of might as well go all in with the expansion instead.

[Linkedblade]

So with the recent survey, i feel like there are 2 options that were mentioned that seem to be the most likely, but whihc of them ends up happening is probably up to us the playerbase, so im gonna poll and let us discuss here. I know there a survey thread but here were discussing specifics about TBC which i think would be valuable, so go ahead and vote.

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i feel like server populations are gonna be impacted heavily based on either choice :// tough decision

UPDATE: i mean transfer and not copy. blizzard never mentioned copy, which is wierd cuz it seems to be the most logical solution but there has to be a reason they havnt said it, so for the poll its supposed to say TRANSFER not COPY.

Think they should create a 1:1 copy of the classic servers and then implement the bc patches on the the new servers. That way your progress is reflected in both, but once the copy is done it diverges.

[NineSpine]

Right, but you might as well just go with TBC in that case. If you reuse Kara that means all the encounters would have to be the same as well, just tuned down. And reusing landmasses and models, well again, that is just a case of might as well go all in with the expansion instead.

There’s no requirement for the encounters to be the same. They aren’t even the same in the legion version of Kara.

Added more zones as level 60 content with different design principles in mind is not the same as raising the level cap and introducing content designed with totally different principles.

[Mauzi92]

1. 100 people is a shit sample size
2. I trust 90% of the people on this site as much as I'd trust OJ Simpson

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fair enough. sample size is not that big yet, but its the best sample we have right now i guess?

you mentioning "the majority of playerbase" (was that the words?) is based on your guts. i know which sample i'd rather trust

[Beerbill Society]

I just want TBC+ with no flying and no bs arena rating being the only viable option, and fuck resilience.

If they made that way, I bet classic crowd wouldn't mind updating.