Who's the greatest WWE Champion of all time?

[Kokolums]

I see you are still not understanding what I am saying. The question posed in this thread isn't "Who is the greatest wrestler of all time that also happened to have been WWF/WWE Champion at least once?" It is asking "What wrestler best represents what it means to be WWE Champion?" Andre is one of the all time best, there is no denying that, but when people think "WWF Champion" his name isn't who you would think of. The first name I am guessing most people, both wrestling fans and non-fans. would think of first would be Hulk Hogan. And if not Hogan, then it would be names like Shaun Michaels, Steve Austin, John Cena, Triple H, ext.

Andre the Giant absolutely best represents what it means to be WWE Champion. He choked out Hulkamania to win the belt. He is a god.

[Beastiel]

Imagine the type of human being you'd have to be to pop into threads about topics you know nothing about in an attempt to delegitimaze peoples appreciation for a certain entertainment medium.

and why? If i made a thread titled "who is the best James Bond?" or "Who is the best Dr. Who?" would you pop in and say "DO YOU MEAN WHO IS THE BEST ACTOR!? YOU KNOW ITS NOT REAL RIGHT!?"

Could it be that the people posting on an MMO site are insecure about their own hobbies and maturity?

[Ihavewaffles]

Who is the ultimate champion? The Ultimate Warrior ofc! duh!

[Rumred]

While some others might have been just as enjoyable and maybe in some aspects better than one of these two in I would have to say Hulk Hogan or Austin. First Hogan was the face of WWE when it went national/global. People who didn’t know wrestling knew Hulk Hogan.

In that regard, Austin while not responsible by himself was part of a turning point in WWE that turned the tides against WCW who would go on to aid in their downfall with stupid decisions and the overuse of the NOW. If it was solely on Austin I wouldn’t rate him as high but when you factor in the feud he had with the title or chasing the title with Vince he stands up there right next to Hogan.

[Ihavewaffles]

You mean who's the best actor of all time?

Which is why it was only fun to watch when being a kid..

[munkeyinorbit]

In the fake sport that takes place on the WWE tv series? Yes. That's what pro wrestling is. It is a scripted tv series about characters competing in a fake sport. So yeah, characters win said fake sport and become champion. It's no different then watching an action movie where the hero fights his way through a bunch of goons to eventually stop the baddies plan. The hero also "wins" in that instance.

Always makes me laugh when people think they are so clever because they post in a thread about pro wrestling just to point out it isn't real. We know already!

Almost as clever as those guys in the classic wf races with "duh, the race was won 15 years ago"

Hulk Hogan.

[Kokolums]

While some others might have been just as enjoyable and maybe in some aspects better than one of these two in I would have to say Hulk Hogan or Austin. First Hogan was the face of WWE when it went national/global. People who didn’t know wrestling knew Hulk Hogan.

In that regard, Austin while not responsible by himself was part of a turning point in WWE that turned the tides against WCW who would go on to aid in their downfall with stupid decisions and the overuse of the NOW. If it was solely on Austin I wouldn’t rate him as high but when you factor in the feud he had with the title or chasing the title with Vince he stands up there right next to Hogan.

WCW kinda killed itself. It had a very large stable of superstars in the late 1990s. I expected Starrcade to look something like this:

1997: Sting clean over Hogan for the title

between starrcades: Sting defends against Hogan & Goldberg

1998: Sting defends clean over Kevin Nash for the title (these 2 should have never wrestled prior to this match) (this should wrap up the nWo storyline)

between starrcades: Sting defends against DDP, Hogan in a retirement match (Hogan loses), Chris Benoit

1999: Bret Hart clean over Sting for the title (these 2 should have never wrestled prior to this match)

between starrcades: Bret loses belt to Benoit, gets it back, Bret defends against Goldberg, Bret defends against DDP

2000: Kevin Nash over Bret Hart for the title

between starrcades: Nash defends against Scott Steiner, Bret Hart, Sting

2001: Booker T clean over Kevin Nash for the title.

Future matchups involve Bret Hart, Goldberg, DDP, Sting, Benoit, Jarrett, etc.

Basically, stop hotshotting the title all over the place. Killed the brand. Preserve signature matchups like Bret Hart vs Sting so that they don't ever wrestle until the Starrcade main event for the title. David Arquette holding the belt sucks.

[Up The Gary]

Shouldn't the question be " Who's the greatest WWE actor of all time " ?

[Rumred]

WCW kinda killed itself. It had a very large stable of superstars in the late 1990s. I expected Starrcade to look something like this:

1997: Sting clean over Hogan for the title

between starrcades: Sting defends against Hogan & Goldberg

1998: Sting defends clean over Kevin Nash for the title (these 2 should have never wrestled prior to this match) (this should wrap up the nWo storyline)

between starrcades: Sting defends against DDP, Hogan in a retirement match (Hogan loses), Chris Benoit

1999: Bret Hart clean over Sting for the title (these 2 should have never wrestled prior to this match)

between starrcades: Bret loses belt to Benoit, gets it back, Bret defends against Goldberg, Bret defends against DDP

2000: Kevin Nash over Bret Hart for the title

between starrcades: Nash defends against Scott Steiner, Bret Hart, Sting

2001: Booker T clean over Kevin Nash for the title.

Future matchups involve Bret Hart, Goldberg, DDP, Sting, Benoit, Jarrett, etc.

Basically, stop hotshotting the title all over the place. Killed the brand. Preserve signature matchups like Bret Hart vs Sting so that they don't ever wrestle until the Starrcade main event for the title. David Arquette holding the belt sucks.

True but without the boost from Austin and the feud with Vince after WM 14 does WCW make some of its bonehead moves. Example having Goldberg go for the title vs HH on raw was clearly WCW feeling heat and wanting to regain their lead the ratings war. While they were making mistakes before hand it seems in 98 when the ratings started to tilt back in favor of RAW WCW started to get forced into more and more errors that culminated in the finger poke of doom.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

went with Undertaker.

CM Punk would have been cool but his pseudo "i hate the mcmahons" run was only good the first couple weeks, then it got stale. straight edge society was cooler.

but yeah, the UNDERRRR TAKERRRRRR

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Shouldn't the question be " Who's the greatest WWE actor of all time " ?

blah blah blah, they're more athletic in a pinky toe than you and me combined, blah blah blah

[Kokolums]

True but without the boost from Austin and the feud with Vince after WM 14 does WCW make some of its bonehead moves. Example having Goldberg go for the title vs HH on raw was clearly WCW feeling heat and wanting to regain their lead the ratings war. While they were making mistakes before hand it seems in 98 when the ratings started to tilt back in favor of RAW WCW started to get forced into more and more errors that culminated in the finger poke of doom.

WCW needed a long title reign by Sting and just didn't do it. They successfully built up Sting to mega stardom level but failed to keep the belt on him. Disappointed fans felt there was no payoff and started turning to the WWF.

[Skizzit]

Shouldn't the question be " Who's the greatest WWE actor of all time " ?

Considering how The Rock is the only wrestler to actually be successful as an actor while many, many others have tried and failed, being a good actor doesn't really have much to do with being a good pro wrestler.

True but without the boost from Austin and the feud with Vince after WM 14 does WCW make some of its bonehead moves. Example having Goldberg go for the title vs HH on raw was clearly WCW feeling heat and wanting to regain their lead the ratings war. While they were making mistakes before hand it seems in 98 when the ratings started to tilt back in favor of RAW WCW started to get forced into more and more errors that culminated in the finger poke of doom.

WCW sowed the seeds of their own demise all the way back when they signed Hogan and Nash. They wanted to sign those two (among others) away from WWF so badly that they gave them creative control in their contracts. Giving two of the biggest selfish politicers in the history of the industry the ability to write their own storylines and refuse any they didn't like meant there was no way either was ever going to help the company build new stars. That's why they ended up with the NWO angle stretching on endlessly, overshadowing all else and both Hogan and Nash being a constant fixture at the top of the card. Eventually even the die hard WCW fans got bored with it and changed the channel at a time when WWF was in the midst of their biggest boom period and the height of the companies ability to build new stars and come up with fresh angles and stories. Sadly, WWE seems to have totally lost that ability these days and constantly relies on nostalgia.

[Rumred]

WCW needed a long title reign by Sting and just didn't do it. They successfully built up Sting to mega stardom level but failed to keep the belt on him. Disappointed fans felt there was no payoff and started turning to the WWF.

While yes that helped it also was that WWF was now offering somthing exciting. The Austin vs McMahon feud is likely the best feud in wrestling history. Like I said you can't put that all on Austin but without Austin having the belt during that time I don't think WWF can snatch the ratings lead back. True some WCW fans would be put off by the deal with sting but WCW quickly had another fire hot star they were building up. The issue was that by summer 98 WWF had retaken the lead in ratings in part by Austin and WCW wanted to do something big to regain the lead. So instead of building up for a PPV which would have ideally been starrcade they decided to put it on Nitro which was 100% aimed at getting the ratings victory.

The mistake they made with sing in late 97 ( having brett involved was a massive waste) and in early 98 were bad but easily something they could have recovered from had WWF had HBK as champion still or idk who would have been the Austin alternative undertaker for taking the belt off shawn. Pulling the trigger on the Rock would have been a few months too soon and same with mankind so the only real option would have been taker. Taker while a star wasn't the taker as we know him now and would not have been able to pull the fans over needed with the belt in 98.

I feel that even with your scenarios listed before the draw that was Austin vs McMahon would still pull over enough fans to shift the ratings in favor of WWF. Your booking assuming WCW is also competent with its mid card would stay afloat but would likely take a backseat to WWF for a few years.

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Considering how The Rock is the only wrestler to actually be successful as an actor while many, many others have tried and failed, being a good actor doesn't really have much to do with being a good pro wrestler.



WCW sowed the seeds of their own demise all the way back when they signed Hogan and Nash. They wanted to sign those two (among others) away from WWF so badly that they gave them creative control in their contracts. Giving two of the biggest selfish politicers in the history of the industry the ability to write their own storylines and refuse any they didn't like meant there was no way either was ever going to help the company build new stars. That's why they ended up with the NWO angle stretching on endlessly, overshadowing all else and both Hogan and Nash being a constant fixture at the top of the card. Eventually even the die hard WCW fans got bored with it and changed the channel at a time when WWF was in the midst of their biggest boom period and the height of the companies ability to build new stars and come up with fresh angles and stories. Sadly, WWE seems to have totally lost that ability these days and constantly relies on nostalgia.

True I remember being a WCW fan during the NWO era but after the finger poke of doom even as a HH and NWO fan It killed it for me. I had already been flipping back and forth but at that point I flipped the channel for good until I think the final Nitro just to see the end of an era. Nash should have come out that night and beat HH and ended the NWO. Gone on for a reign for however long and drop the title to a DDP,Booker T, ect. Even if you want to give the title back to HH at some point have it be as the yellow and red hogan beating a heel to hold for a short while but the time was then to let Nash have his title run and end the NWO and open the door for new stars to challenge for the title.

Ever since the WWE has become a publicly traded company and have toned it down to the PG era. In part because they have had no real competition for 20 years. Hopefully AEW can one day rise to that WCW level and force WWE to get innovative again but i fear as long as vince draws breath we are doomed to what we have.

[Kokolums]

I feel that even with your scenarios listed before the draw that was Austin vs McMahon would still pull over enough fans to shift the ratings in favor of WWF. Your booking assuming WCW is also competent with its mid card would stay afloat but would likely take a backseat to WWF for a few years.

In my head, I'm think the 2 year Sting title reign would go like this:

1. Sting and Hogan face off in a rematch. There's a lot of foul play. Spray paint. Chairs. Eventually Sting gets the clean pin again. Then Hogan gets really angry and wrecklessly comes after Sting post-match. Sting clobbers him with the bat and Hogan suffers a fake injury. He's off TV for a while.

2. The injury to Hogan is a decapitation attack on the entire nWo. Hogan turns out to be the glue and infighting starts. Some people follow Kevin Nash and Scott Hall. Others follow Bischoff.

3. Sting runs a program with Goldberg while the nWo sorts itself out. Sting pins Goldberg a couple of times.

4. Nash eventually emerges as the leader of the nWo.

5. Kevin Nash and Sting begin a program leading up to Starrcade 98. Sting continues doing ridiculously insane stuff along the lines of dropping from the rafters. He really pushes this personna of just not giving a crap (to counter Austin). People stay tuned in to watch Sting go balls out.

6. Starrcade 98: Sting cleanly pins Kevin Nash to keep the title.

7. nWo disintegrates. Hogan can come back and feud with former nWo members.

8. Sting gets into a big program with Chris Benoit. Benoit captures the title. Hart gets it back.

9. Bret Hart's brother dies and Bret takes a few months off. When he returns, he immediately gets into a big program with Sting for the title. All of the drama around Bret Hart, his brother, Bret's return, and everything Bret went through makes this must-see TV.

10. Starrcade 99: Bret Hart pins Sting for the title.

[jellmoo]

You mean who's the best actor of all time?

Literally nobody here discussing this is thinking of this as a real and competitive sport.

Ask yourself something like "which of the actors in The Avengers franchise do you think is the most valuable to the franchise?" and you can then have a discussion with people about it. This is the same sort of thing. We all know that it's not a competitive sport, we're talking about performances and the value they brought to the company.

[Lodreh]

The Rock was my favorite personality but not the greatest champion... Hulk Hogan was probably the most iconic... however, WWF was at it's peak during the Stone Cold Steve Austin era making his reign the greatest of all time.

[Skizzit]

Can't call them champions then.
Should be reworded to an alternative then if you want to nit pick.

So then I guess if you are watching a movie like say a boxing movie, you can't call who ever wins in the movie a champion because it isn't real, right? Creed can't be called the champion in Rocky cause Carl Weathers is just an actor playing a role.

[Kyphael]

Can't call them champions then.
Should be reworded to an alternative then if you want to nit pick.

That is literally what they are called on television and recognized in the business of pro wrestling. That is the discussion. Pro wrestling is self admittedly simulated combat, meaning pre-determined bouts and champions based on marketability, popularity and to a lesser extent story-line purposes. We know this. It does not need to be re-worded and your nitpicking is an attempt to derail the discussion because you have nothing valid to contribute to said discussion.

[jellmoo]

Can't call them champions then.
Should be reworded to an alternative then if you want to nit pick.

They literally *are* the champion. The company calls them their champion. They hold a belt. It's the best descriptor for who they are and what they do. Consider them the champion of making money, if it offends you to have somebody labelled as a champion in a non competitive event.

[GKLeatherCraft]

BTW awesome leather work sir. Your must have your LW capped ;-D

Well thank you muchly good sir