New Bolvar Model looks rad, but after the trailer I do not care about him anymore

[Lawzen]

Of course Bolvar is not a full empowered Arthas, but in the last expansions he was slowly build up as this scheming figure that slowly powered up in the background. We didn't really know how powerful he had become, neither his physical abilities nor his tactical "genius".
In the trailer everything was revealed: He and a complete army of undead stand no change against Sylvanas (not even close) and he was not prepared for her strike at all.
He was reduced to a complete wimp and I completely lost all interest in his character.
How do you see him? Do you think it still makes sense to make him apparently a central figure in Shadowlands?

He's a weakling for sure. The trailer really destroyed him. To his defense, it was the directors fault.

[Eazy]

"If Sylvanas wins and breaks the balance, literally everyone dies... but I wonder why that is a bad thing."

You really think that it isn't bad thing?

Are you seriously asking why upholding the cosmic balance is a good thing? Have you paid any attention to WoW story? Why do you think we needed to stop Arthas from zombifying the world? Why do you think we needed to stop Sargeras from burning the entire cosmos in fel fire? Why do you think we needed to stop the Old Gods from turning Azeroth into the Black Empire? Why do you think Xe'ra and Yrel are painted in a negative way due to their desire to "cleanse" the cosmos?

Yes, I do. And your other examples aren't really the same as the one with Bolvar/Sylvanas case.

He is indeed a good guy, hence why he'll be one of the main heroes of Shadowlands. And the bad deeds don't erase the good deeds either. In this case, serving as the jailer of one of the deadliest armies in the world for years and helping us save the cosmos against Sylvanas and Jailer easily outweights killing a bunch of red dragons.

He no longer has the Crown of Damnation.
We are discussing Bolvar vs Sylvanas. Not Bovlar after fight vs Sylvanas.
Both were evil and if Sylvanas didn't appear in ICC he may become even more evil Lich King than Arthas before him.

erm how was Bolvar built up since end of Wrath? he becomes the Lich King, then we see fuck all of him til the start of Legion where he helps the DK's. then again goes afk til mid to end BfA where we go visit him to ask wtf is up with Voljin's spirit. my turds have had bigger build-ups than Bolvar has had

Exactly, he became Lich King since wrath. It was obvious that they wanted to do something with him, if they didn't then they would just let him die.

[Varodoc]

You really think that it isn't bad thing?



Yes, I do. And your other examples aren't really the same as the one with Bolvar/Sylvanas case.



He no longer has the Crown of Damnation.
We are discussing Bolvar vs Sylvanas. Not Bovlar after fight vs Sylvanas.
Both were evil and if Sylvanas didn't appear in ICC he may become even more evil Lich King than Arthas before him.



Exactly, he became Lich King since wrath. It was obvious that they wanted to do something with him, if they didn't then they would just let him die.

Are you trolling? You are the one who asked why it should be a bad thing if the cosmic balance is broken.

Also yes, they are the same examples. Sylvanas, much like Arthas, wants to eradicate all life and ensure that everyone serves Death (exact words from Three Sisters comic "In the end, all will serve Death... all will serve me!").

He had the Crown of Damnation when he said he defied Sylvanas and sought to preserve the balance. The Crown didn't make him more evil. Bolvar would've never become another Arthas, because by his own admission he sought to preserve the balance, whereas Arthas wanted to break it in favour of Death.

[Oneirophobia]

Yeah, I hate when the writers just do that. I mean "to show how powerful our next enemy is we will just see how easily he defeat the previous enemy!".

That's bad writing.

DBZ gets away with it all the time, maybe Blizz watches a lot of animu.

[Mirishka]

One thing that I'm curious about is why they've inched back toward 'benevolent, sad Bolvar' when he was doing/saying a lot of seriously scary shit in Legion. That expansion strongly suggested that he was well on his way to becoming a proper, evil Lich King.

And yeah, Bolvar landing even one or two attacks would have made the fight with Sylvanas so much more interesting. I get it - she needed to win to shatter the helm and set the events of Shadowlands in motion - but it still could have been a strong showing for him as well.

It was the WoW equivalent of a wrestling 'squash' match.

[DemonHunter18]

Yeah, the trailer completely ruined him. Easily the worst cinematic they've made for WoW. I was hyped for his return but now I don't want to interact with him.

it's the only cinematic I never watched more than once.

even MoP is dozens of times better than that.

[Mirishka]

it is folly to call her a mary sue at this point when the buff has been clearly explained and reasoned).

On the bright side, people who cry 'REEEEEEE mary sue' every time a powerful female character comes along are doing us a favor: they're outing themselves as morons not worth listening to.

Before mods crucify me for that statement, let me clarify that I mean in general, not as a specific attack on anyone here.

Back to Bolvar, I also hope that he has an interesting story in Shadowlands but I'm not as confident in their storytelling after BFA, which was kind of a disjointed mess at points.

[Dungo]

it's the only cinematic I never watched more than once.

even MoP is dozens of time better than that.

Same here. Normally after the cinematic's come out, I watch it like 2-3 times because I enjoyed it that much. I haven't rewatched the Shadowlands one since it's reveal because of how disappointing it was.

[Yarathir]

DBZ gets away with it all the time, maybe Blizz watches a lot of animu.

Yeah, but Dragon Ball Z and WoW are not the same thing.

You don't expect the same things from the two. Just as I don't expect brutally violent themes in Dora the Explorer.

[MrLachyG]

Yeah, but Dragon Ball Z and WoW are not the same thing.

You don't expect the same things from the two. Just as I don't expect brutally violent themes in Dora the Explorer.

haha oh cmon if they can make a PG13 Deadpool they can make an R18 version of Dora.

[Zuben]

I think he's still a force to be reckoned with. Sylvanas won because she was empowered by an actual Shadowland god-being. As much power as the helm gave Bolvar it was still just an artifact. Now devoid of it we don't know how much power he's left with, but I have a feeling there's some left. Bolvar could easily be the Tirion of Shadowlands.

[Dracullus]

We watched same trailer? Even empowered Sylvanas was weaker than Lich King, she had to dodge all the time. That's why she used some tricks to trap Bolvar and take his helmet.

[Accendor]

He obviously is going to be used in Shadowlands, so he may get revenge on Sylvanas yet. He got caught off-guard by an excellent fighter who is empowered by a ruthless death entity/deity.

Yeah, Bolvar is powerful, but he doesn't have Frostmourne. We haven't seen him fight until the trailer, so any speculation on his combat prowess was just wishful thinking.

The problem that we was caught off guard is actually the way bigger problem than that he lost a fight against Sylvanas despite him having a complete army behind him.

[Varodoc]

We watched same trailer? Even empowered Sylvanas was weaker than Lich King, she had to dodge all the time. That's why she used some tricks to trap Bolvar and take his helmet.

True. If Sylvanas was caught once it would've been GG, Bolvar would've oneshot her. She only won because she was faster.

[blankfaced]

Where are you all getting that he was "powering up". All i saw him as was a cork on the top of a bottle. He's not some all powerful being and has never been shown as such.

[Caerule]

I feel quite different then the opening poster. I don't mind him losing a fight. Most hero characters do. It's just a part of the hero's journey to lose, and then work hard for that comeback.

I dislike the character because he took on a sinister villainous role in Legion, sending the Death Knights against the Silver Hand and Wyrmrest Accord. He's no Arthas, but he is a bad guy. Unless they pull a "The Helmet Made Me Do It", I'd rather plant an axe into his face, than work with him. Which sucks, because he is definitely the Saurfang of Shadowlands.

[DemonHunter18]

Same here. Normally after the cinematic's come out, I watch it like 2-3 times because I enjoyed it that much. I haven't rewatched the Shadowlands one since it's reveal because of how disappointing it was.

as soon as I heard Sylvanas' voice, I was like Seriously

generic talk, cringy staredown, off paneled fight where his army gets slaughtered and him having two arrows already in his back without showing it, breaking the helm like it's made of paper and breaking down every lore (and slaughtering the iconic stuff)connected with it.

but hey, it makes sense since she was buffed but something never mention anywhere in history of WoW.

incredible writing right there.

next stop, Seat of the Pantheon.

Sargeras and Illidan: Who da fuck are you!?

Sylvanas: Your worst nightmare.

Sargeras and Illidan: Ok...

few minutes later:

Sargeras and Illidan on the floor with horns broken.

Sylvanas: This Universe is a Prison.

proceeds to break all Titan seats and Universe somehow collapses via incredible good logic.

Hardcore fans

But she was empowered by xxx entity so it makes sense.

[Jaggler]

The problem that we was caught off guard is actually the way bigger problem than that he lost a fight against Sylvanas despite him having a complete army behind him.

What we saw in the trailer wasn't even that much, considering the bulk of those forces were just random shambling corpses, not elite soldiers. Looking at what Sylvanas did in the BfA cinematic, it isn't surprising she could handle that.

[Eazy]

Are you trolling? You are the one who asked why it should be a bad thing if the cosmic balance is broken.

First of all, why would I?
Second, it was you who said that:

"If Sylvanas wins and breaks the balance, literally everyone dies... but I wonder why that is a bad thing."

I didn't say it.

Also yes, they are the same examples. Sylvanas, much like Arthas, wants to eradicate all life and ensure that everyone serves Death (exact words from Three Sisters comic "In the end, all will serve Death... all will serve me!").

They are not, don't be blind. Eradicating all life versus killing all the people who doesn't praise the light? That's not the same.

He had the Crown of Damnation when he said he defied Sylvanas and sought to preserve the balance. The Crown didn't make him more evil. Bolvar would've never become another Arthas, because by his own admission he sought to preserve the balance, whereas Arthas wanted to break it in favour of Death.

Yes, suddenly holy paladin decided to kill the red dragons just for fun. Get a grip.

Anyway, because it seems that you like to nit-pick everything else, because you cannot counter the prime topic of the discussion - LK Bolvar was evil. That's a fact.

[Orby]

Yeah, I hate when the writers just do that. I mean "to show how powerful our next enemy is we will just see how easily he defeat the previous enemy!".

That's bad writing.

Not sure that sort of thing is a bad thing, after all if she wasnt as powerful as the new Lich King what would be the incentive to defeat her? I think people would equally be complaining she is weak. They need to make her a threat.

People talk about Bolvar like he is Arthas.

Fuck even Arthas was defeated by Sylvanas. So who knows :P


Couldn't find the original, so you get the reforged version (sorry) :P