**SPOILERS** The true enemy of the Shadowlands

[Aucald]

I still find it extremely flimsy why he would be the final boss instead of Sylvanas.
Sure, i want Sylvanas to die as soon as possible, but saving her defeat for the final raid would be quite the ending to the last few expansion, especially compared to the weak ending that would come from defeating the Jailer and just going back to Azeroth. Even beyond that, how would you keep the momentum going for the expansion after Sylvanas is dead? We already had a situation like that and it was called TBC, where most everyone seems to agree the expansion ended with the Black Temple and Illidan.

Having thought about it, I'm not really sure Sylvanas would be super-satisfying as a raid encounter on a mechanical level - beyond my personal desire to see her finally die. I suppose you could draw inspiration from the fight with her Echo in the End Time dungeon, where she uses some impressive abilities with interesting mechanics. Beyond that, though; you'd have to do some serious alterations to what kind of a fighter she is to make an impressive end-of-expansion boss out of her.

That being said I'm pretty confident we will be fighting her and probably ending her decisively this time around. She may be the penultimate boss of Shadowlands final raid, guarding the Jailer with her unlife or some such.

[Amaterasu65]

This isn't the Jailer 100%, doesn't look like the one from the concept art or the shadow from the video. Still a cool model. I also think the Arbiter is the big bad, would make a good twist to see that the Jailer got unfairly imprisoned in the Maw so the Arbiter could usurp him and become the leader of the Shadowlands. Then again, the Shadowlands are stable and have no problems with Arbiter in control, it's the Jailer and Sylvanas who disrupt the balance. I can see Sylvanas being "right" in the long run and that's frightening.

[Varodoc]

This isn't the Jailer 100%, doesn't look like the one from the concept art or the shadow from the video. Still a cool model. I also think the Arbiter is the big bad, would make a good twist to see that the Jailer got unfairly imprisoned in the Maw so the Arbiter could usurp him and become the leader of the Shadowlands. Then again, the Shadowlands are stable and have no problems with Arbiter in control, it's the Jailer and Sylvanas who disrupt the balance. I can see Sylvanas being "right" in the long run and that's frightening.

Doubt that. The Arbiter has done her job (ruling the Shadowlands) since before the age of the titans.

[Sondrelk]

He was already described as the main villain and central driving force of Shadowlands. He will outlast Sylvanas. Sylvanas will probably die early on in the expansion, just like Garrosh in WoD. Her job was to start the expansion, she already had the spotlight as main villain in BfA.

That still doesnt explain why we as the players should give a toss who he is when he has only just been revealed. For Gul'dan it worked because we knew who the Burning Legion was, and we knew that there were several people above him that we also knew abouth.
For Sylvanas and the jaielr this does not work even close to as well. we as the players only care about Sylvanas at this point. The only way it would work is if we go into time-travel shenanigans or pull off the Jailers face and realize he was Arthas all along or something.

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Having thought about it, I'm not really sure Sylvanas would be super-satisfying as a raid encounter on a mechanical level - beyond my personal desire to see her finally die. I suppose you could draw inspiration from the fight with her Echo in the End Time dungeon, where she uses some impressive abilities with interesting mechanics. Beyond that, though; you'd have to do some serious alterations to what kind of a fighter she is to make an impressive end-of-expansion boss out of her.

That being said I'm pretty confident we will be fighting her and probably ending her decisively this time around. She may be the penultimate boss of Shadowlands final raid, guarding the Jailer with her unlife or some such.

Fighting her doesnt mean fighting her directly, she could summon adds, or go into a superform or turn into a banshee and posess someone with more interesting raid boss potential.

[Kyphael]

That's a strange thing to be surprised by - Arthas was the final boss of WOTLK and we saw him like 10 minutes into questing in Howling Fjord. We also saw Deathwing, Garrosh, and others early on.

Yeah but Arthas has long been introduced in the Warcraft universe long before WoW. The Jailer is a brand new character, just like Argus, who we didn't see until the end of Legion.

[Aucald]

Fighting her doesnt mean fighting her directly, she could summon adds, or go into a superform or turn into a banshee and posess someone with more interesting raid boss potential.

Possessing someone, eh? Perhaps the Jailer himself?

[Varodoc]

That still doesnt explain why we as the players should give a toss who he is when he has only just been revealed. For Gul'dan it worked because we knew who the Burning Legion was, and we knew that there were several people above him that we also knew abouth.
For Sylvanas and the jaielr this does not work even close to as well. we as the players only care about Sylvanas at this point. The only way it would work is if we go into time-travel shenanigans or pull off the Jailers face and realize he was Arthas all along or something.

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Fighting her doesnt mean fighting her directly, she could summon adds, or go into a superform or turn into a banshee and posess someone with more interesting raid boss potential.

I mean.... speak for yourself. I am interested in finding out what the Jailer wants and why exactly he is rebelling against the Shadowlands. WoW villains are pretty generic/bad anyway so I don't expect much from him, but I do find him more interesting than Arthas with tits.

[Bigthumbb]

Total shot in the dark, but if that "jailer" model is THE Jailer, maybe it's from a flashback scenario/cutscene that shows when he was originally stuck into the Maw/lost his heart to The Arbiter? Would explain why he was clean-shaven and muscled, relative to the bearded, lanky/gaunt version of today.

[Sondrelk]

I mean.... speak for yourself. I am interested in finding out what the Jailer wants and why exactly he is rebelling against the Shadowlands. WoW villains are pretty generic/bad anyway so I don't expect much from him, but I do find him more interesting than Arthas with tits.

I am also curious what his goals are, but i find it hard ot imagine that anyone cares more about the Jailer than they do for Sylvanas. I mean, consider for a moment that we defeat Sylvanas in the 9.1 raid similar to Gul'dan. What reason do we as the players have to care about the Jailer? Sure he likely wants to kill us, but that isnt the kind of engagement that makes players long for fighting him, whereas if we defeat the Jailer in the 9.1 raid, and then have Sylvanas left for the final raid, then i imagine more people will be looking forward to the final raid and finally being able to kill her.

[Wangming]

This isn't the Jailer 100%, doesn't look like the one from the concept art or the shadow from the video. Still a cool model. I also think the Arbiter is the big bad, would make a good twist to see that the Jailer got unfairly imprisoned in the Maw so the Arbiter could usurp him and become the leader of the Shadowlands. Then again, the Shadowlands are stable and have no problems with Arbiter in control, it's the Jailer and Sylvanas who disrupt the balance. I can see Sylvanas being "right" in the long run and that's frightening.

How long will people stay in denial about Sylvanas being a selfish, power hungry bitch?

[Varodoc]

I am also curious what his goals are, but i find it hard ot imagine that anyone cares more about the Jailer than they do for Sylvanas. I mean, consider for a moment that we defeat Sylvanas in the 9.1 raid similar to Gul'dan. What reason do we as the players have to care about the Jailer? Sure he likely wants to kill us, but that isnt the kind of engagement that makes players long for fighting him, whereas if we defeat the Jailer in the 9.1 raid, and then have Sylvanas left for the final raid, then i imagine more people will be looking forward to the final raid and finally being able to kill her.

We literally know nothing about the Jailer, let's wait a bit before coming to the conclusion that Sylvanas would've made for a better villain.

Also, I'd rather not have another expansion where Sylvanas causes shit from start to finish, BfA was more than enough.

Sylvanas isn't even that interesting, as a villain she is a retread of Lich King. The only interesting thing now is watching her new model in CGI and discovering if Blizz is stupid enough to pull Kerrigan 2.0.

[Wangming]

Possessing someone, eh? Perhaps the Jailer himself?

Rather the Arbiter, She helps the Jailer confront and weaken the Arbiter than posess him/her/it. I kinda get the impression the Arbiter is the strongest being in the Shadowlands.

[Aucald]

Rather the Arbiter, She helps the Jailer confront and weaken the Arbiter than posess him/her/it. I kinda get the impression the Arbiter is the strongest being in the Shadowlands.

I think the Arbiter might have been the strongest being previously, but it seems that with the influx of Anima all going to the Maw that the Jailer either has or is set to usurp that distinction from them.

[Sondrelk]

We literally know nothing about the Jailer, let's wait a bit before coming to the conclusion that Sylvanas would've made for a better villain.

Also, I'd rather not have another expansion where Sylvanas causes shit from start to finish, BfA was more than enough.

Sylvanas isn't even that interesting, as a villain she is a retread of Lich King. The only interesting thing now is watching her new model in CGI and discovering if Blizz is stupid enough to pull Kerrigan 2.0.

But that is exactly the thing, we know nothing about him? How much investment could one expansion possible muster for a character we know nothing about?

Arthas was built up over years and years, all thje way back to WC3.
Deathwing was built up at the very least from WotLK when we knew that he was the last aspect, and supposedly the strongest.
Garrosh was a well-known figure that had been prominent in the gmae wince WotLK.
Gul'dan and Archimonde were well known from WC3, Archimonde as well having been a raid boss in the past in TBC.
Argus was the "champion" of Sargeras, the big baddie of WoW, with the rest of the raid being entirely predicated on defeating the Burning Legion.
Even N'zoth was well known, and was built up as a major threat since Cataclysm.

So unless we get a revelation tht the Jailer is Arthas, or some other well known character then the investment the player cna have for him is limited.

[Varodoc]

But that is exactly the thing, we know nothing about him? How much investment could one expansion possible muster for a character we know nothing about?

Arthas was built up over years and years, all thje way back to WC3.
Deathwing was built up at the very least from WotLK when we knew that he was the last aspect, and supposedly the strongest.
Garrosh was a well-known figure that had been prominent in the gmae wince WotLK.
Gul'dan and Archimonde were well known from WC3, Archimonde as well having been a raid boss in the past in TBC.
Argus was the "champion" of Sargeras, the big baddie of WoW, with the rest of the raid being entirely predicated on defeating the Burning Legion.
Even N'zoth was well known, and was built up as a major threat since Cataclysm.

So unless we get a revelation tht the Jailer is Arthas, or some other well known character then the investment the player cna have for him is limited.

Lei Shen was a nobody before MoP and most people loved him as a villain and loved his patch.

[Sondrelk]

Lei Shen was a nobody before MoP and most people loved him as a villain and loved his patch.

He wasnt the final boss though. He was interesting and cool and all, but he also didnt have to fill the prestigious slot of "final boss of expansion".

[TheFirstOnes]

So with the datamining started, there are models for the Jailer and the Arbiter. The Jailer is missing his heart or power core which the Arbiter is in possession of. I believe that the Arbiter is the usurper and that the Jailer or whatever his true name is, is the true ruler of the Shadowlands. Here is a pic of the Jailer. The Arbiter isn't up yet but I saw it on the wowhead stream and she definitely has his heart/power core. I'll update the post with a pic of her when she's up.

Pretty sure you're overthinking this, my guy. She probably has the heart to make certain that balance within the Shadowlands stays intact. However, as seen from the Shadowlands trailer, the Jailer will regain his heart, and all hell will break loose as a result.

[matrix123mko]

I do hope they give him his beard back and it's just a fancy effect like Azshara's hair that doesn't come up in the datamining's first check. It was a unique touch.

Yes, I want a grandpa that would stand out.

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Agreed. All of the models so far have been superb.

Except Sylvanas. She needs her eyes back.

[Varodoc]

He wasnt the final boss though. He was interesting and cool and all, but he also didnt have to fill the prestigious slot of "final boss of expansion".

We don't know if the Jailer is the final boss, only that he is the main villain and central driving force.

Either way, this is his expansion. He won't be overshadowed by Sylvanas.

[Sondrelk]

We don't know if the Jailer is the final boss, only that he is the main villain and central driving force.

Either way, this is his expansion. He won't be overshadowed by Sylvanas.

That's my point. As it stands, without some massive revelation tying him to someone we as players have a preexisting investment in he cannot function that well as a final boss compared to Sylvanas.
Besides, Sylvanas has already deviated massively from the Lich King, having her as the final boss would hardly be redoing the Lich King fight. Even without considering the difference in location and fighting style.