AoE Changes in Shadowlands, Shadowlands Developer Interview - Ion Hazzikostas

[Loreguy126]

I mean, you can only run a raid once per week but that system still seems pretty popular.

if they make it something like the Treasure run in MOP, i.e having the ability to get a few keys a week for Torghast then I'll be happy. I say 5-10 runs a week max is a good balance...

[CorneliusBrutus]

This is bad news. Another situation of "we hear you but actually fuck you".

What you mean specific feedback??????? HOW MUCH MORE FEEDBACK DO YOU NEED?!

It's been heard and deemed to be stupid. There will not be a world in which GCDs are removed entirely so you can go back to brainless macros. Do not mistake "looking for feedback" for "we will implement whatever you ask for no questions asked".

[Not A Cat]

People bitching are the normal ones, in my opinion. The people that like it the way it is are going to invest in their favorite covenant regardless if it gimps them or not, so why wouldn't they want to be able to pick their favorite without being gimped? Makes no logical sense whatsoever. Blizzard has never balanced anything like this and will never balance anything like this.

It goes without saying that there will be an ideal covenant for each class/spec and balance is impossible. But really they just have to make it so the power gap between covenants isn't too great. The worst case scenario I could realistically see is for the 1% of the playerbase that progress in mythic raids and push high keys in the first month or so of a raid tier. I will bet that for a vast majority of the playerbase, what covenant you pick will be more than viable for the content you want to do.

It's like with essences, people were freaking out about not being able to get their BiS rank 3 essences when they were just running heroic raids and mid level keys. I'm not defending essences, it was a crappy system meant to put a bandaid on the even crappier azerite system, but my point is adding variety to power gains shouldn't be put on the wayside because people feel like they have to min/max every little aspect of the game.

I'm personally glad they're sticking to their guns on this one.

Also thank fucking god WF/TF is gone. It really should have gone with 8.3 as they must have seen early on how poor corruption was going to go. Well at least they admit it was a failure.

[Laqweeta]

I mean, you can only run a raid once per week but that system still seems pretty popular.

That's been a staple since the game has released though, and it's some of the hardest/best content the game has to offer.

[Gasparde]

TL;DR:

We've dropped the ball in regards to balancing on every single issue over the last like 3 expansions. Every single time we implemented a power system it took us about 12 months to get to a state of... some things still being obviously better and like 30% ahead of the competition. BUT, trust us that Covenants will not be like that this time around.

Seriously. Hearing the guy say we're confident on balancing... yea, ship has sailed. This shit will go live, it'll be horribly imbalanced on month 1, they'll then turn over everything, frustrating everyone who's already made their choice in the process, the system will still be imbalanced as fuck, 85% of Hunters will still go Covenant X, 5 months later they'll do another tuning pass, things will still be imbalanced, 6 months later restrictions will be loosened, 12 months later the system will be entirely dropped, and then the next expansion... will start the cycle all over again.

These guys can't balance for shit. Them trying to get the community to stop simming is beyond ridiculous at this point. They just can't do it. Yet system after system is built upon exactly this wishful thinking of *this time we'll balance it right, this time everyone will have fun, this time simming will be dead cuz everything's gonna be obvious*. Fuck that stupid approach. I haven't changed the talents on my BM Hunter for like the last 4 years - great balancing you have there.

[Jastall]

Lots to digest here.

-No GCD change is a bummer. It's fine to have it on abilities like Colossus Smash or Meta which do something besides upping your damage. It sucks on abilities like Recklessness where you spend a GCD standing around doing nothing for no reason.

-No Master Looter was expected but still a letdown. I guess Blizzard is tired of policing players and just lets them sort that shit out themselves.

-No WF/TF, corruption. Fine with this, didn't hate the systems as much as others but I suppose they brought more harm than good ultimately.

-Understand his reasoning for the AoE cap, and mostly agree with it. I still think there's going to be a world of haves and have-nots when it comes to AoE, but this might dial down the differences.

-Tier sets back eventually? Please and thank you.

-Torghast having a limit is eeeh. Really depends on how severe it is to be honest. Still looking forward to the system.

-Covenants... now that's the big, huge question mark of the expansion. I get what Ion says when it comes to the RPG feeling of the game, but WoW isn't Dragon Age or Divinity. I'm not playing in my own bubble where my choices only affect me or, if we go back to DnD, my small group of friends. Performance is important in this game, just winging it with whatever sounds good for you isn't even a thing in Classic these days and it won't be a thing in Shadowlands for sure. It'll feel bad if I go Necrolords in the first week of the xpack but Venthyr or Night Fae end up being meta, and we know one of them WILL end up being meta.

Between Soulbinds, abilities, and available legendaries, Covenants seem like a choice that is almost as important as what class you play... but Blizzard already has a hard enough time balancing between classes and specs as it is. Adding a second layer of systems on top that each need their own tuning knobs but that players can't feasibly opt out of sounds like a total nightmare for both the players and Blizzard, to be quite honest. The RPG feel would have been present with the exclusive stories, transmogs sets, back pieces, characters and mounts offered by the Covenants.

Also, I don't think the solution has to either be that the Covenants are hermetic from each other, or anything goes and it's just another layer of talents. How about allowing us to choose a second Covenant as allies? We couldn't pursue their story or get the collectibles from them, but would be able to unlock the gameplay-altering features from them and switch between both much like a class switches between specs. This way I can go Necrolords for my chosen Covenant based on the lore and aesthetics, but ally with, say, Venthyr if their abilities and such end up best for my class. This is a compromise that most would accept, I think.

[Ashamane]

It's actually astounding how many good things were said in this interview. It definitely looks like they thought a lot about the direction they were taking the game and considered feedback very effectively as a whole.

However, it's frustrating that they are still not planning on bringing back Master Loot.

I'm sorry, but Personal Loot is just a very frustrating system that takes a lot of control out of the player's hands.

I've thought about why they are so persistent in keeping Master Loot out of the game. The reason I keep thinking of is that it took a lot of customer support time to manage loot for players. With Personal Loot, that is heavily reduced, obviously.

I think they can come up with a better way for players to manage their own loot, and keep the customer support minimal as a result. As a concept, perhaps a voting system among players in a raid if there is a dispute? That's the idea I came up with off the top of my head. I'm sure that's not the best solution at all, but it's something.

[Kathranis]

if they make it something like the Treasure run in MOP, i.e having the ability to get a few keys a week for Torghast then I'll be happy. I say 5-10 runs a week max is a good balance...

It really depends on how long a Torghast run is, doesn't it?

[RoKPaNda]

That "loot is loot" thing is going to bite them in the ass the same way that pruning legendaries did, the same way that Azerite instead of Artifacts did, the same way that gutting LFR in WoD did, etc. We'll see a massive sub drop after one quarter and an investor call about "casual engagement" being down, and why aren't people running content. (Hint: Because you listened to players at the top like me and fucked over everyone else. That never works well.) Incoming one of the worst expansions following one of the blandest expansions. This company needs a lot more oversight because it never ever ever learns.

[Nurasu]

It goes without saying that there will be an ideal covenant for each class/spec and balance is impossible. But really they just have to make it so the power gap between covenants isn't too great. The worst case scenario I could realistically see is for the 1% of the playerbase that progress in mythic raids and push high keys in the first month or so of a raid tier. I will bet that for a vast majority of the playerbase, what covenant you pick will be more than viable for the content you want to do.

It's like with essences, people were freaking out about not being able to get their BiS rank 3 essences when they were just running heroic raids and mid level keys. I'm not defending essences, it was a crappy system meant to put a bandaid on the even crappier azerite system, but my point is adding variety to power gains shouldn't be put on the wayside because people feel like they have to min/max every little aspect of the game.

I'm personally glad they're sticking to their guns on this one.

The biggest problem is not even that they won't be able to balance the unique abilities with each other, the unique legendaries with each other, and the unique soul binds with each other, it's that they're not going to be able to balance a single one of the three of those against each other and the resulting package is going to be so unbalanced it won't even be funny. They have shown for 20 years that they can't accomplish this, but bless their hearts for trying. Meanwhile, let me pick which story I want as part of my RPG experience while still being able to maintain my optimal performance with my class that's not even fotm. I'm already making sacrifices for the RPG experience. Why should I be required to make more?

[ryanmahaffe]

Just about everything here is really great information and if all this mindset is in the game come 9.0, it is automatically better than 8.0.

My main source of disappointment is the limit on Torghast, if it is capped it needs to be a very, VERY loose cap. Such as after a Torghast run you have to wait an hour to do it again. Also, only allow a few runs daily for rewards.

Easy.

[glowpipe]

There will be some (fairly permissive) limits on Torghast runs.

They can fuck straight off with this one.

Even if you don't get rewards, players may feel pressured to keep practicing Torghast if there weren't limits.

and then you limit it so players who want to push more, can't because of a few whiny bitches who don't want put in any effort into the game ?

Make the weekly rewards easy as shit to get so you don't have to practice, and open it up so if you want to progress further and get visuals and cosmetics etc, you have to practice to get better. WITHOUT a fucking key

[MakeMeLaugh]

It's been heard and deemed to be stupid. There will not be a world in which GCDs are removed entirely so you can go back to brainless macros. Do not mistake "looking for feedback" for "we will implement whatever you ask for no questions asked".

Ah yes, wasting GCD's using 2 CD's is indeed top level skill, it's not brainless at all compared to making a macro with both.

They are not looking for feedback, they are, like always, making it look like they care. The feedback has been massively given, since day 1 of this change, and it's very clear. If they actually cared about this, they would have reverted this retarded change already, instead of pretending they are looking for feedback.

Here's what is going to happen, "hey we listen to you, abilities X and Y are not on the GCD right now and we will look into the(very far) future about removing 1 or 2 more skills".

[Aleksej89]

A lot of neat things in the interview.

Primary concern is can they make classes fun - BFA failed so hard because its classes are dumbed down shallow boring trite, all of which amplified all the other problems (like asserite etc).

[Biomega]

Unless I'm mistaken all of the 1-60 gear is already unlocked for transmog at level 1.

And in SL, with all expansions scaling from 10-50, that should mean all the gear in the game up to SL should become unlocked at 10.

That was an arbitrary level I picked. What's wrong with a lvl 1 wearing lvl 120 gear, then.

And why unlock it at 10 in SL, and not 1?

What's the logic behind a PURELY cosmetic feature being restricted like that?

Same with toys - why would a friggin TOY (and I'm talking cosmetic toys, not functional ones) have a level restriction on it?!

[TheLucky1]

The AoE cap and the thought behind it is great.
Give classes strengths and weaknesses, make wow more rpg again.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah yes, wasting GCD's using 2 CD's is indeed top level skill, it's not brainless at all compared to making a macro with both.

They are not looking for feedback, they are, like always, making it look like they care. The feedback has been massively given, since day 1 of this change, and it's very clear. If they actually cared about this, they would have reverted this retarded change already, instead of pretending they are looking for feedback.

Here's what is going to happen, "hey we listen to you, abilities X and Y are not on the GCD right now and we will look into the(very far) future about removing 1 or 2 more skills".

It's not only about offensive cds (you are right there ofc, powering up for 3 seconds and not doing anything feels weird).

The defensive cd's and planning ahead is indeed about skill, making every lifesaver off gcd basically makes wow a reaction game.

[Nurasu]

The AoE cap and the thought behind it is great.
Give classes strengths and weaknesses, make wow more rpg again.

- - - Updated - - -



It's not only about offensive cds (you are right there ofc, powering up for 3 seconds and not doing anything feels weird).

The defensive cd's and planning ahead is indeed about skill, making every lifesaver off gcd basically makes wow a reaction game.

It's still a reaction game. The difference is whether you hit the ability one time or three waiting for it to go off.

[MakeMeLaugh]

The AoE cap and the thought behind it is great.
Give classes strengths and weaknesses, make wow more rpg again.

- - - Updated - - -



It's not only about offensive cds (you are right there ofc, powering up for 3 seconds and not doing anything feels weird).

The defensive cd's and planning ahead is indeed about skill, making every lifesaver off gcd basically makes wow a reaction game.

Yea for defensives sure, it's a different thing, but for offensive CD's, that's what disrupts the flow, especially on CD's that are already very short like Fury warriors recklessness.

[Not A Cat]

The biggest problem is not even that they won't be able to balance the unique abilities with each other, the unique legendaries with each other, and the unique soul binds with each other, it's that they're not going to be able to balance a single one of the three of those against each other and the resulting package is going to be so unbalanced it won't even be funny. They have shown for 20 years that they can't accomplish this, but bless their hearts for trying. Meanwhile, let me pick which story I want as part of my RPG experience while still being able to maintain my optimal performance with my class that's not even fotm. I'm already making sacrifices for the RPG experience. Why should I be required to make more?

But implying that Covenants will be so unbalanced that certain classes will have to pick a certain one or face a significant power loss is pretty outlandish. There aren't any systems in the game that punishing. Even suboptimal talent choices aren't all that bad if you know how to play your class proficiently.

That's really the crux of it, if you're good at your class, and aren't in a top 1000 guild, I highly doubt picking the less optimal covenant is going to negatively affect you. I challenge anyone to quote me on this for later.

[Kralljin]

Really makes you think on the gearing change, was the issues of the corruption systems that made them take a step back (despite saying that there will be such a system in SL) or the success of Classic that made them realize that those systems aren't as needed as they think?