DH Havoc Shadowlands Class Update - Thats it????

[Lindon]

Anyone will even read my research on BFA feedbacks?

Since you wrote it, no.

[deenman]

Go peek at survival. All they got mentioned was lol number tweaks, seriously tuning was all that was mentioned. Havoc didn't have much that it needed really.

to be fair survival is pretty good,all it needs is better numbers

[Musta]

Since you wrote it, no.

thats really rude

[Musta]

I read so many threads on where DH are OP (like in HV) and personally I enjoy playing both speccs as they are- do you want change for change sake?

Nope, i really think theres room for improvement on some areas. Spicy some things up and stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

If you check our talents and see nothing wrong with them, (well, not wrong, just terrible boring), thats what im referreing

- - - Updated - - -

and if you check my feedback you would see that i didnt do anything radical.

[Lucrece]

The fact is, First Blood and Demonic need to be baselined.

1) Nobody wants to only turn into a demon every 4 minutes. A huge part of the class fantasy is being metamorphosed frequently.

2) Nobody wants a 2 button rotation. First blood introduces blade dance into the rotation for a 3 button rotation, which should be the minimum...

That they seem to think DH is totally fine pressing only 2 buttons and then one every 30 seconds and another every 4 minutes is laughable.

[demonik]

The fact is, First Blood and Demonic need to be baselined.

1) Nobody wants to only turn into a demon every 4 minutes. A huge part of the class fantasy is being metamorphosed frequently.

2) Nobody wants a 2 button rotation. First blood introduces blade dance into the rotation for a 3 button rotation, which should be the minimum...

That they seem to think DH is totally fine pressing only 2 buttons and then one every 30 seconds and another every 4 minutes is laughable.

I agree with you so much, I know others will argue meta being a big part of the class but to me what you said is so true. I really hope people give feedback like this for the alpha so maybe we can see some changes

[Big Thanks]

thats really rude

Update the first post (OP) so people can read it.

Not everyone reads all the pages

[AntenoraDK]

Lol what did you expect?

Demon Hunter's are still fairly new to the game.

[ceall]

The only thing Blizz needs to do is to make all the mandatory talents (speaking for all specs here, not just for dhs) baseline, maybe bake some azerite traits into some of them and suddenly there's 7 free spots in almost every single talent tree, allowing for new talents to come in.
And while they're at it, they can look at talents that have never been used before and either buff them to be competitive or replace them with new talents.

To use havoc as an example, trail of ruin and demonic baseline, bake furious gaze into eye beam and instead of trail of ruin, add a buffed eyes of rage into the talent tree

- - - Updated - - -

This is the most backwards thing ive ever read...

They nerfed the abilities.....to then be buffed to their original state of BfA's via perks.............should i cry or should i laugh?

Dhs start at level 8 come shadowlands. We can't get ALL spells during the starter experience like we are used to now.

That is why some spells are nerfed for the purpose of getting something every few level ups, just like all other specs in the game. If you are 120 now, you will still be having the 40% refund chance on CB, while during leveling the refund chance will only be 20% for example.
In the end, nothing really changes.

[Big Thanks]

Dhs start at level 8 come shadowlands. We can't get ALL spells during the starter experience like we are used to now.

That is why some spells are nerfed for the purpose of getting something every few level ups, just like all other specs in the game. If you are 120 now, you will still be having the 40% refund chance on CB, while during leveling the refund chance will only be 20% for example.
In the end, nothing really changes.

But this is sooooooo artificial...nothing really changed...so i ask why?
Its the most artificial way possible to offer "progression"...

Ofcourse, im only thinking about everyone who played BfA...maybe the change is only for "new players"?

Because, by itself...this is insanely backwards

[Musta]

Update the first post (OP) so people can read it.

Not everyone reads all the pages

Just did, thanks buddy. Take a look and tell me what you think.

[Big Thanks]

Just did, thanks buddy. Take a look and tell me what you think.

I think you are too nice of a person i would rage a lot more
For most your cases you feel the talent options are fine...BUT, IMO, when there is an overpowered option...there is no option to make.
In the dream scenario, a talent row must create 3 talents where ALL the 3 options are better for a specific situation

examples:

Tier 35: Soul Rending | Desperate Instincs | Netherwalk
I think this row is ok, very good choices of utility and survivability.

PvP
Soul Rending is too overpowered to the point you are quite literally picking a wrong option if you do otherwise

PvE
Ok...netherwalk is quite a good option for PvE....i give you that one.

Tier 30: Trail of Ruin | Fel Mastery | Fel Barrage

All AoE options.....BAD....very bad.
By creating a FULL AOE row....this creates the problem i was talking.....one is always just better.
In this case Trail of Ruin is just too good to pass

Even though there is a niche for Fel Barrage......very Niche.....trail just better

Tier 45: Unleashed Power | Master of the Glaive | Fel Eruption

As a PvP'er i feel gimped for not having a slow baseline
For the love of the baby...give demon hunters a slow base so i can make fun choices in the talents without gimping myself

[Musta]

I think you are too nice of a person i would rage a lot more
For most your cases you feel the talent options are fine...BUT, IMO, when there is an overpowered option...there is no option to make.
In the dream scenario, a talent row must create 3 talents where ALL the 3 options are better for a specific situation

examples:



PvP
Soul Rending is too overpowered to the point you are quite literally picking a wrong option if you do otherwise

PvE
Ok...netherwalk is quite a good option for PvE....i give you that one.



All AoE options.....BAD....very bad.
By creating a FULL AOE row....this creates the problem i was talking.....one is always just better.
In this case Trail of Ruin is just too good to pass

Even though there is a niche for Fel Barrage......very Niche.....trail just better



As a PvP'er i feel gimped for not having a slow baseline
For the love of the baby...give demon hunters a slow base so i can make fun choices in the talents without gimping myself

I agree with your premisse and i see where you are coming from, we tried to keep as realistic as possible in that one.
I think DHs have a stun and a lockdown in pvp with prison and fel eruption
Also, soul rending and netherwalk are good choices for different things, like you said. NW is very good for pve.

We have too many gap closers, i dont think having another movement imparing effect is something that they would consider, unless you change the kit you already have (stuns, gap closers, snares and even reverse magic)

I would too remove more talents, but like I said, we were trying to be realistics....

- - - Updated - - -

But i wanna know what you think about the rest aswell, if you may

[Big Thanks]

Ill give it a more detailed read later. I promise

[Musta]

Ill give it a more detailed read later. I promise

cool, thank you!

[Varolyn]

I don't know if havoc really needs all that much change. They bring great utility, have great mobility, and yes while the rotation is simple, they look really cool doing it and the gameplay itself is quite smooth. And Demon Hunters in general are quite new to the game so there is very little to bring back, except for maybe fury which i'm gonna be totally honest was one of the more underwhelming artifact abilities. I do think something should be done about demon bite/demon blades though. I really think Demon Blades should work more like Rockbiter for Enhance shammies, a 2 charge filler that would do more damage and generate more fury than Demon's bite. But perhaps blizz doesn't want that similarity to exist.

[Dald]

Havoc is kinda close to perfect. I just want a scythe wielding spec. Glaives aren't edgy enough.

[Musta]

Havoc is kinda close to perfect. I just want a scythe wielding spec. Glaives aren't edgy enough.

Do you play Havoc, mister?

[naeblis495]

so not only we will lose some of the most fun thing for havoc right now : the trait that give ton of haste after eye beam , they even nerf the fucking duration of demonic so i spend even less time in demon form than before ?

Yep , not maining a demon hunter in shadowland . Once again , fun was detected and nerfed to oblivion .

[Big Thanks]

@Musta

Bellular has a video with the same title of your thread abour demon hunters, lel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldfIkMvi65s