Shadowlands: Druid Design Philosophy

[ashblond]

as balance if i understand it, they are bringing the alternating power BS back?
dont like that design.

I don't know why they bring back the eclipse system back.
I never hear anyone liked eclipse. And I never heard anyone has problem with the current astral power system.

[PickleballAce]

You're a bit stuck in the past, aren't you?

There's nothing anachronistic about it. It's like the most basic common sense.

If hybrids did as much damage as a Pure DPS and could also fulfill other roles on the fly in combat then why would you ever, ever, ever take a Pure? The only other option to keep Pures desirable would be to load them up with unique utility (i.e. Shaman lose Bloodlust but Mages and Hunters keep it).

[Whitepaw]

There's nothing anachronistic about it. It's like the most basic common sense.

If hybrids did as much damage as a Pure DPS and could also fulfill other roles on the fly in combat then why would you ever, ever, ever take a Pure? The only other option to keep Pures desirable would be to load them up with unique utility (i.e. Shaman lose Bloodlust but Mages and Hunters keep it).

The “Pure” classes (Hunter, Mage, Rogue and Warlock) all have a lot of utility already. In fact, they have had OP utility in BfA.

But one of the areas where these classes have always been strong is at CC. I hope, encounter design will make that relevant again in all aspects of WoW.


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[PickleballAce]

The “Pure” classes (Hunter, Mage, Rogue and Warlock) all have a lot of utility already. In fact, they have had OP utility in BfA.

But one of the areas where these classes have always been strong is at CC. I hope, encounter design will make that relevant again in all aspects of WoW.

A Mage being an extraneous source of bloodlust is far different than literally every hybrid in your raid being a competent emergency healer or tank to replace one that dies.

Keep in mind we're not talking about like a Ret pally throwing Lay on Hands on a dying tank or spamming Flash of Light on the raid until they OOM or even Heart of the Wild where it's temporary role adoption on a long CD. These situations are already in the game and it works fine. But hybrids being strong off-heals and off-tanks and doing Pure-level DPS would definitely be problematic.

[Lucrece]

A Mage being an extraneous source of bloodlust is far different than literally every hybrid in your raid being a competent emergency healer or tank to replace one that dies.

Keep in mind we're not talking about like a Ret pally throwing Lay on Hands on a dying tank or spamming Flash of Light on the raid until they OOM or even Heart of the Wild where it's temporary role adoption on a long CD. These situations are already in the game and it works fine.

Yeah, it's not like being a braindead fire mage with iceblock immunity to cheese mechanics, 90% instant cast ridiculous burst damage and spread aoe on top of 2 instant blinks is not broken at all.

[PickleballAce]

Yeah, it's not like being a braindead fire mage with iceblock immunity to cheese mechanics, 90% instant cast ridiculous burst damage and spread aoe on top of 2 instant blinks is not broken at all.

That is still way less ridiculous than some hybrids being a triple-role Faction Leader NPC behemoth.

[huth]

There's nothing anachronistic about it. It's like the most basic common sense.

If hybrids did as much damage as a Pure DPS and could also fulfill other roles on the fly in combat then why would you ever, ever, ever take a Pure? The only other option to keep Pures desirable would be to load them up with unique utility (i.e. Shaman lose Bloodlust but Mages and Hunters keep it).

Which is why they're about as good at their off-spec roles as pures and do comparable DPS.

You're talking about design paradigms Blizzard has abandoned about a decade ago.

[Lucrece]

That is still way less ridiculous than every hybrid being some triple role Faction Leader NPC behemoth.

Yeah, because raid encounters clearly use 3 tanks and 6 healers all the time. Except they don't. Because you only need 2-3 and 4.

[PickleballAce]

Yeah, because raid encounters clearly use 3 tanks and 6 healers all the time. Except they don't. Because you only need 2-3 and 4.

That's...not even close to the point.

The point is how fucking absurd would it be if you lost a tank and it's no problem because you've got 12 more ready to go?

[Lucrece]

That's...not even close to the point.

The point is how fucking absurd would it be if you lost a tank and it's no problem because you've got 12 more ready to go?

And for everyone of them ready to go you lose a dps, hurpa durp, derp derp. Enrage timers are a thing.

[PickleballAce]

And for everyone of them ready to go you lose a dps, hurpa durp, derp derp. Enrage timers are a thing.

Well good thing your legion of emergency tanks and heals have been doing a fuck ton of DPS in the mean time!

Which is handy because killing a boss with half the raid dead has literally never happened in the history of the game.

[Lucrece]

Well good thing your legion of emergency tanks and heals have been doing a fuck ton of DPS in the mean time!

Which is handy because killing a boss with half the raid dead has literally never happened in the history of the game.

That "fuck ton of dps' is exactly the amount of DPS you need to do FOR THE ENTIRE FUCKING ENCOUNTER TO NOT HIT ENRAGE, derpina.

[huth]

That's...not even close to the point.

The point is how fucking absurd would it be if you lost a tank and it's no problem because you've got 12 more ready to go?

Reality check. Hybrids can do comparable damage to pures in the game right now. What they can't do is heal or tank at the same time with any degree of usefulness.

Your point is bollocks.

[Scratches]

best druid design was cataclysm

Nobody's paying attention to your comment (/sadface), but having experienced every expansion, I agree 1,000%. And not just for Druids... every class was amazing back then (even Shamans, without 2h Enhancement)

Cataclysm certainly had its faults, but class design was absolutely not one of them, imho

[PickleballAce]

That "fuck ton of dps' is exactly the amount of DPS you need to do FOR THE ENTIRE FUCKING ENCOUNTER TO NOT HIT ENRAGE, derpina.

Going full ad hom is such a terrible look when you're actually making the objectively pants-on-head-retarded claim that hybrids should not only be able to fulfill multiple roles in a single encounter, but this is totally not overpowered in any way and in fact totally balanced!

I know "class begs devs to make them OP" is nothing new and pretty understandable but this is laughable, and made so much better when you throw in being recalcitrant about it at the same time.

[Lucrece]

Going full ad hom is such a terrible look when you're actually making the objectively pants-on-head-retarded claim that hybrids should not only be able to fulfill multiple roles in a single encounter, but this is totally not overpowered in any way and in fact totally balanced!

I know "class begs devs to make them OP" is nothing new and pretty understandable but this is laughable, and made so much better when you throw in being recalcitrant about it at the same time.

Ah, so you've reverted to repeating your previous braindead statements in hope no one will notice you actually didn't refute prior points.

Go waste someone else's time, derpina, I'll be here when you have something else to offer besides repeating your position.

[PickleballAce]

Why are you so angry, little one?

You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think there's a snowball's chance in hell of any class being able to capably fill multiple roles in combat while doing Pure DPS. That's really all that needs to be said.

[huth]

Why are you so angry, little one?

You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think there's a snowball's chance in hell of any class being able to capably fill multiple roles in combat while doing Pure DPS. That's really all that needs to be said.

Nice strawman you're setting up there. Care to show exactly where somebody actually asked for that?

[PickleballAce]

Nice strawman you're setting up there. Care to show exactly where somebody actually asked for that?

Yeah it was the post above my first one in this chain of thought:

Druids being able to achieve true hybridity (changing role during combat) is THE defining gameplay signature for Druids and I cant wait to get it back.

[Appelgren]

Below extract is taken from Class Design Philosophy bluepost:
"Druids are the masters of shapeshifting—a versatile hybrid class than can adapt their form to suit a wide variety of situations—and Shadowlands reinforces this core identity by giving them even more flexibility. We’re bringing several abilities back to the class and making others more widely available. Most notably, the Affinity system has been expanded to offer utility abilities along with passive bonuses.

General Changes
All Druids will be able to use Ferocious Bite, Barkskin, Cyclone, Stampeding Roar, and Ironfur regardless of their active specialization. Druids of any specialization will also now be able to use Cyclone and Stampeding Roar. In addition, Heart of the Wild has returned as a Talent, providing an option for Druids who want to use off-role abilities during combat.

The Affinity Talents associated with each specialization (Balance, Guardian, Feral, and Restoration) also gain an additional utility ability. Balance receives Typhoon, Feral gets Maim, Guardian gets Incapacitating Roar, and Restoration can use Ursol’s Vortex."

My Opinion:
This makes me incredibly happy. This idea of druid's affinity having an even more important role for your effectiveness is the perfect change.
And then on top of that having a "Heart of the Wild" talent that perhaps might make the druid even closer to the chosen affinity's regular spec.

Question:
What do you think about this? Do you appreciate Blizzard focusing more on the Hybrid Druid Design?

Feral specific changes makes me looking at other classes to main. Looks horrible at a first glance.

Hope to see a lot of better changes.
We are already at the bottom. Don’t need to be worse than that going into shadowlands.