It's Time To Do Away With The Holy Trinity

[NineSpine]

The mechanics that made the holy trinity work are mostly long gone (threat management). Right now, the holy trinity is a vestigial appendage that only serves to make it more difficult for people to get into the content. It also restricts design decisions by making bosses hit so hard that you need tanks and healers, preventing creative solutions to encounters.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't have classes with tank and healer toolkits, but those roles should be altered to fit a model that does not require them.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Nah, if you want a MMO without the "Holy Trinity" then they are there for you. There's no reason to fix what isn't broken after almost 16 years.

[Nnyco]

Dont see how threat management is even remotely part of the holy trinity, considerin it got removed since cataclysm basically and its still working just fine.

[Waltzinblack]

No, basically.

[NineSpine]

Dont see how threat management is even remotely part of the holy trinity.

The point of the holy trinity is for the tank to get threat and thereby get hit and need the heals.

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Nah, if you want a MMO without the "Holy Trinity" then they are there for you. There's no reason to fix what isn't broken after almost 16 years.

I'd argue it is broken. There aren't enough tanks, ever. 16 years of tank shortages are enough to conclude we have a problem.

[Detritivores]

If you want to play a different genre of game, please do. Otherwise, you've presented no coherent arguments here.

If tank shortage is your concern there are 6 SIX! tank classes. Learn to play one.

[NineSpine]

If you want to play a different genre of game, please do. Otherwise, you've presented no coherent arguments here.

The holy trinity is not an integral part of the genre, at all. Plenty of games don't have it. Does content that doesn't require a tank become not an MMO?

[Athalon]

no, others mmo without holy trinity just sucks, try them if you are interested in that

[Kumorii]

If healer and tank aren't required why would you have them?

Also, I don't really see any argument of why this would be a good thing or what it will bring to the game... "creative solutions" isn't that specific because I can use that argument to say that you require tanks and healers which give other "creative solutions".

[Vintersol]

It would be fun seeing Raidfinder-Ronny dealing with chaotic aggro switches.

[NineSpine]

If you want to play a different genre of game, please do. Otherwise, you've presented no coherent arguments here.

If tank shortage is your concern there are 6 SIX! tank classes. Learn to play one.

Tank shortages are bad for the game. Me personally playing a tank, which I often do, does not change the tank shortage being bad for the game.

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If healer and tank aren't required why would you have them?

Because some people like playing them and it should be a viable way to tackle content.

[Kiwijello]

I'd rather see more support classes added the bolster those roles. I don't mind being a buff bot if it's engaging.

[NineSpine]

no, others mmo without holy trinity just sucks, try them if you are interested in that

Do they suck because they dont have the holy trinity or do they suck because of other reasons? I think its the latter.

[Hellobolis]

I'd argue it is broken. There aren't enough tanks, ever. 16 years of tank shortages are enough to conclude we have a problem.

there are way to many tanks actually. tanks spots are by far the hardest to get.

the lack of tanks in queue/pug content has very little to do with the game systems, that's almost entirely a people problem.

[Detritivores]

I'd argue it is broken. There aren't enough tanks, ever. 16 years of tank shortages are enough to conclude we have a problem.

That is a social problem. Not a game design problem. They've made it very easy to get into tanking. Massive class diversity. (Literally every new class has included a tank class). And they've also dumbed it down since vengeance tanking days when skill was rewarded. Now you just wear your gear and roll your face on the keyboard and you're generally fine.

[Kumorii]

Because some people like playing them and it should be a viable way to tackle content.

Why would I bring a tank to a raid or dungeon if it's not required when DPS does more DPS?

[Detritivores]

Tank shortages are bad for the game. Me personally playing a tank, which I often do, does not change the tank shortage being bad for the game.

See above...

[NineSpine]

I'd rather see more support classes added the bolster those roles. I don't mind being a buff bot if it's engaging.

Id argue the current paradigm prevents support classes from working. If you have a group size of 5 and only three are DPS, you arent going to give up a DPS for a support role. If the group makeups were more flexible, there would be room for more styles of gameplay that currently dont even exist.

[Azerate]

Nah, if you want a MMO without the "Holy Trinity" then they are there for you. There's no reason to fix what isn't broken after almost 16 years.

Pretty much this.

Some things may not work in WoW, but the system of tank/dps/heal works and has always worked.

a vestigial appendage that only serves to make it more difficult for people to get into the content.

If you don't want to commit to the more demanding roles, you will have a longer queue and a harder time finding groups, there's not much point making it sound more complicated than it already is.

[NineSpine]

That is a social problem. Not a game design problem. They've made it very easy to get into tanking. Massive class diversity. (Literally every new class has included a tank class). And they've also dumbed it down since vengeance tanking days when skill was rewarded. Now you just wear your gear and roll your face on the keyboard and you're generally fine.

A social problem in a social game is indistinguishable from a game design problem.