When will spanking your child be outlawed in every first world country?

[EnclosedOne]

pain and/or the fear of pain is one of the greatest motivators for people not to do stupid shit a second time so spanking can and does work but there is a huge difference between spanking a kid when they've really screwed up and beating them. I honestly believe the reason places are having so many issues with shitty teenagers now is because they're being restricted on properly physically disciplining them.

[Shadowferal]

pain and/or the fear of pain is one of the greatest motivators for people not to do stupid shit a second time so spanking can and does work but there is a huge difference between spanking a kid when they've really screwed up and beating them. I honestly believe the reason places are having so many issues with shitty teenagers now is because they're being restricted on properly physically disciplining them.

I blame Dr Spock. (Benjamin Spock)

[PC2]

pain and/or the fear of pain is one of the greatest motivators for people not to do stupid shit a second time so spanking can and does work but there is a huge difference between spanking a kid when they've really screwed up and beating them. I honestly believe the reason places are having so many issues with shitty teenagers now is because they're being restricted on properly physically disciplining them.

If a parent reached a point where physical discipline became unavoidable then all that means is that the parent has made a prior sequence of mistakes that put them into that position that could have and should have been avoided. As long as they seriously think about those mistakes and aim to prevent them in the future then that's all that can be asked for.

[plantation]

I was spanked and I'm fine. The day progressives take over is the day the world will come to an end.

[PC2]

I was spanked and I'm fine. The day progressives take over is the day the world will come to an end.

You could've been more-than-fine if you and your parents had resolved your issues without physical force.

[Shadowferal]

You could've been more-than-fine if you and your parents had resolved your issues without physical force.

...it's nice to have a belief...

[Jonnusthegreat]

In our modern days yes, but my claim is that the unwillingness to make that trade-off is primarily a cultural issue and not because the economy stopped allowing for it.

Great, so you agree with my claim. And I'm undecided on yours. There's too many variables to assert one way over the other.

[PC2]

...it's nice to have a belief...

Yes lol it's my guess that physical discipline is never optimal and never unavoidable with enough forethought. In the future when society has accumulated more child-rearing knowledge my guess is that physical discipline will be entirely phased out(voluntarily), not just on ethical grounds but because we'll know more about the superior alternatives.

[PACOX]

This is one of the 'bait' topics in my book.

All I say is one should have a tool bag when it comes to raising a child. There's no one one size fits all solution. Different tools are used for different situations.

No all verbal punishments are not are constructive.
All physical punishments are not abusive.
Physical punishment is almost never the first option.

Neglect and abuse can be found in both.

[Shadowferal]

Yes lol it's my guess that physical discipline is never optimal and never unavoidable with enough forethought. In the future when they have accumulated more child-rearing knowledge my guess is that physical discipline will be entirely phased out(voluntarily), not just on ethical grounds but because we'll know more about the superior alternatives.

I'm sure this belief persisted in others for years...decades even.
Until they had their own children.

[PC2]

I'm sure this belief persisted in others for years...decades even.
Until they had their own children.

Trust me I know it's not easy, all I'm saying is that it's possible given the right knowledge. Just because we haven't figured out how to solve all our interpersonal problems without physical force throughout history and up to 2020 that doesn't mean we can't figure it out in the future.

[Weeps]

In my classroom, the kids that are beaten up/abused at home are the problem children in class. People think it helps out in the world. No. It only helps instill fear of the person who is beatin' the hell outta dat ass. Those problem children address problems the exact same way their parents taught them, "If I don't like what they are doing, I beat them up. Why? Because when my mom doesn't like when I do this, I get whuppin's"

DURRRRR

Violence begets violence. Simple as that. There are much better methods to discipline.

[PC2]

In my classroom, the kids that are beaten up/abused at home are the problem children in class. People think it helps out in the world. No. It only helps instill fear of the person who is beatin' the hell outta dat ass. Those problem children address problems the exact same way their parents taught them, "If I don't like what they are doing, I beat them up. Why? Because when my mom doesn't like when I do this, I get whuppin's"

DURRRRR

Violence begets violence. Simple as that. There are much better methods to discipline.

It's almost like a parent has a shitty violent meme in their head, copies it onto their kid and then the kid copies that behaviour when he gets to school. Who would've thought...

[Weeps]

It's almost like a parent has a shitty violent meme in their head, copies it onto their kid and then the kid copies that behaviour when he gets to school. Who would've thought...

InDEED.

That's a good and clear way to put it.

[Shadowferal]

InDEED.
That's a good and clear way to put it.

You should wonder how is it that the world hasn't devolved into a psychopathic collective by now.
But I'll give ya a hint; a smacked hand or a swat on the bottom isn't the same as getting a beat down.

[Yuujin]

You should wonder how is it that the world hasn't devolved into a psychopathic collective by now.
But I'll give ya a hint; a smacked hand or a swat on the bottom isn't the same as getting a beat down.

I wonder how much better society would be if parents would have taken the time to discipline their children in more effective ways, rather than giving into their most basic urges and slapping a child. If you wouldn't let your kid's preschool teach swat your child on the bottom or smack her hand, you shouldn't be doing it yourself.

If you would let a stranger hit your child, even if it was a 'smack' or a 'swat,' or however else you'd like to sugarcoat it, then I think we've hit that collective you were talking about.

[PC2]

You should wonder how is it that the world hasn't devolved into a psychopathic collective by now.
But I'll give ya a hint; a smacked hand or a swat on the bottom isn't the same as getting a beat down.

Right so we're talking about an incremental optimization process here, it's not a night vs day issue where society stops physical discipline and then there's some big leap of progress. All the behavioral memes that have allowed society to function up to this point in time should be viewed as "just so" and contained barely just enough utility to be passed from grandfather to father to son. But we don't want to settle for "just so" we want to find the next best parenting policy.

[Rennadrel]

It does work if you tell them what they did was and take all their shit away, too many parents feel bad but you have to stand your ground.

Unfortunately that isn't a guaranteed to work method either with some kids, depends on their overall behavioral disposition. Funny though, as a kid with a learning disorder, I still learned how to listen to authority figures in my life. And I don't even think I was spanked all the much as a child despite misbehaving. I recall of a few instances where I did something really bad where I got a spanking that I did deserve it. I know that there were a few instances as well where I got it for defending myself from bullies at school, which didn't help my issues and I know now that my parents regretted doing that, punishing someone for standing up for themselves against harassers is some idiot level ideology, but I also understand that schools don't want violence on their property.

[Shadowferal]

I wonder how much better society would be if parents would have taken the time to discipline their children in more effective ways, rather than giving into their most basic urges and slapping a child.

If you have a child then you know it's not the first thing you do for discipline. It's the last resort.

If you wouldn't let your kid's preschool teach swat your child on the bottom or smack her hand, you shouldn't be doing it yourself.

It seems you're confused here...Who is the parent here again? Or do you believe that the state should be raising a parents' child?

If you would let a stranger hit your child, even if it was a 'smack' or a 'swat,' or however else you'd like to sugarcoat it, then I think we've hit that collective you were talking about.

I don't believe anyone here has ever posted such nonsense as to allowing a stranger hit their child.
Because that stranger would get stomped on hard for touching someone else's child...and the law would likely look the other way.

[Rennadrel]

Oh no, kids are mouthing off to adults. Whatever shall we do?

If it's not a crime or some other objective measure of a determinedly negative quality (such as teen pregnancy rates), then it isn't worth talking about, and you're just whining about "kids not knowing their place", or some similar horseshit.

There is no evidence backing your position. None. It's all in your head. You're making it all up.

You know, if you talked to someone like me with as much snark and rudeness on the streets as you are doing on this forum, I'd probably be inclined to punch you in the face and put all your teeth down your throat. Thankfully I learned a lot of important lessons in my youth about controlling my emotions and not letting people who think they are better than me from getting the best of my emotions. Maybe you should drop being such a self righteousness tit and accept that not everyone sees the world through your rose-coloured glasses. My experiences are not yours, I know how I was raised and the positives and negatives of how my parents dealt with me, mainly because I was willing to actually have those discussions. In the event that I do have kids, obviously I won't make the same mistakes my parents did, and trust me in that I know there were times when they regretted spanking me for doing what I thought was right.
[Infraction]