[Megathread] FF7 Remake

[Tech614]

A remark I saw, forgot what video it was, but one that hit the nail perfectly. FF7 1997 was Squaresofts game. This today is Square Enix's game.

Square Enix is the merger of Square and Enix and most of the old guard who worked on it in 1997 also worked on the remake. VIIR was literally made by Business Division 1 which is literally Square, as they where before the merger(BD1 has literally nothing to do with the "Enix" part of the company and only makes FF games even with the new 2020 organization of Square making them CBU1 they still only make FF and KH games with BD3 added in). Squaresoft was just a western publishing name it was not some separate company what the fuck did I just read? This is not some new company changing the game, this is literally the same people not wanting to remake the exact same game and do you really blame them? Most remakes/remasters are handled by other studios not the same one who made it. It would be boring for these writers, devs and artists to have it be exactly the same project with better visuals.

[everydaygamer]

Certain things I don’t like as an OG player. Sephiroth being in-game so early is kind of annoying, as his reveal is downplayed from later on. Anyone who is familiar with the original has seen many teasers for things that won’t happen until part 2 at the earliest.

There was an interview where the devs explained this changed. Basically in the original, they treated him like Jaws where he was this looming threat for most of the beginning building him up until he finally appeared later on. Problem with doing it that way in the remake was:

1. Everyone knows who Sephiroth is these days so the slow build-up wouldn't have had the same impact. As someone who didn't play through the original all the way until a few years ago I can confirm this is the case, hell I was actually surprised how little Sephiroth is actually in the game considering how much people talk about him.

2. He's such a big part of the story so if they kept things the same he wouldn't actually appear until the second game and it didn't feel right to them to not have such important character not be a part of the first game.

As for new players not understanding certain things I think that's fine. The game doesn't have to explain every little thing in the first game, they are allowed to leave a bit of mystery for players to speculate over. Although there is no way new players aren't gonna go play the original after this.

[Eapoe]

There was an interview where the devs explained this changed. Basically in the original, they treated him like Jaws where he was this looming threat for most of the beginning building him up until he finally appeared later on. Problem with doing it that way in the remake was:

1. Everyone knows who Sephiroth is these days so the slow build-up wouldn't have had the same impact. As someone who didn't play through the original all the way until a few years ago I can confirm this is the case, hell I was actually surprised how little Sephiroth is actually in the game considering how much people talk about him.

2. He's such a big part of the story so if they kept things the same he wouldn't actually appear until the second game and it didn't feel right to them to not have such important character not be a part of the first game.

As for new players not understanding certain things I think that's fine. The game doesn't have to explain every little thing in the first game, they are allowed to leave a bit of mystery for players to speculate over. Although there is no way new players aren't gonna go play the original after this.

You just contradicted yourself in this statement. You state that everyone knows who Sephiroth is, but then go on to state new players will not understand certain things. Knowing who Sephiroth is doesn’t mean you understand his context in the game. Also, Sephiroth being in the game so infrequently is part of the appeal of his character as he is more of a mystery for the bigger part of the story. Parts with Tifa in the pod chamber were revealed much later and have greater tie ins to Cloud’s memory and what is happening.
Releasing the game in parts is the main issue. It completely changes the pacing and the reveals. Breaking it into parts meant they have to reveal certain things now even though it makes almost no sense to the story.
The main issue is pacing. Again, as an OG player, the teases and things they’ve revealed so early on (Materia orb dropping to the floor, anyone) is something that happens so far into the story that to have it revealed in Ch 8 with only the people who played the original knowing what it is makes no sense.
I’m okay with changes, but make them make sense. They make an entire part 1 about Midgar and they could have made up entirely new story without ever even revealing Sephiroth or teases for part 2 (for those who know). It could have been its own contained story while expanding on the already developed lore. Instead it felt like they are just teasing upcoming things for people who know what’s going to happen to entice them to Part 2.

- - - Updated - - -

A remark I saw, forgot what video it was, but one that hit the nail perfectly. FF7 1997 was Squaresofts game. This today is Square Enix's game. Their as much different entities as the original animated beauty and the beast, and the live action remake. They are made by completely different people, only one is attempting to pay homage to the other, while trying to do their own thing.

If that pays off its a different matter, but yeah, its very understandable if people are pissed off this being changed from the original. I mean I love seeing these characters in fully rendered cgi, fully voiced and in a new battle system, but the end of this chapter just leaves me less with anticipation and more with concern, given square enix's track record.

- - - Updated - - -



Watching Jeremy Jahns review made me realize something.. time travel or time alterning elements were never part of the original story, but they've now thrown that kind of element into this story, one that didn't need it because the story was straight forward enough with its own complexities.

The problem this has made, is time travel or time altering elements or ones involving time displacement like alternative timelines, unless used properly or written well, can make a preexisting story very convoluted, and just could make to many plotholes because of it. Just going though this, it makes it feel like every time the whispers appear, its just a distraction that tears us away from the original story.
This is dangerous and could just get on so many fans nerves.

As the other person stated who replied to you, this is being done by the original team. There’s a video that states this perfectly, and to paraphrase states, “an FF7 remake is something that has been on the table for years, but kept getting pushed back. The original developers realized, as they got older, that if they didn’t do it soon then none of them would be around to actually redo the game, so they finally got to work on it.”

[everydaygamer]

You just contradicted yourself in this statement. You state that everyone knows who Sephiroth is, but then go on to state new players will not understand certain things. Knowing who Sephiroth is doesn’t mean you understand his context in the game. Also, Sephiroth being in the game so infrequently is part of the appeal of his character as he is more of a mystery for the bigger part of the story.

You can know who Sephiroth is without knowing all the details of his character. There was no point in pretending that Sephiroth was a big mystery when everybody already knows about him. The mystery behind his character is all still there nothing really changes just because they actually show him. Yeah, you could argue it loses some of its impact but the point was that the impact is already lost at this point since people already know about him.

[segara82]

You can know who Sephiroth is without knowing all the details of his character. There was no point in pretending that Sephiroth was a big mystery when everybody already knows about him. The mystery behind his character is all still there nothing really changes just because they actually show him. Yeah, you could argue it loses some of its impact but the point was that the impact is already lost at this point since people already know about him.

See, i have confidence in the team to do Sephiroth right. I assume that we will follow most of the original story, so in one of the next chapters our characters will make a stop in Kalm to freshen up, and Cloud will again get to tell the story how he met him, befriended him and all that until the Nibelheim Incident when again his memories get fuzzy. Watching Nibelheim burn and Sephiroth turning his back on us will again/still be fucking epic. Older players will recognize it and be happy that it stays true to the original, new players will get to see the Warhero Sephiroth in action and understand why the others made such a big deal of him in the first place.

[Fahrenheit]

Don't mind the whispers so much, it's their (Square's) ticket to change the story line more than they would've been able to get away with otherwise. I suspect we may see things play out differently with Aerith because of it. Either her outright surviving, or her making a willing sacrifice instead of the usual skewering, or perhaps even different characters perma-die based on choices you make throughout the course of the game.

I guess my biggest gripe is now we wait 2, maybe 3 years to the next installment?

[Kumorii]

I guess my biggest gripe is now we wait 2, maybe 3 years to the next installment?

IKR... I just wanna get some news but it's way too early... I actually hope that they add minor content in patches as well for us to play around with. Even if it's just extra VR challenges or what not.

[Great Destiny Man]

IKR... I just wanna get some news but it's way too early... I actually hope that they add minor content in patches as well for us to play around with. Even if it's just extra VR challenges or what not.

I have a feeling we'll get some news by end of year, even if it's just a small bit of info regarding what to expect in the new game.

Some extra patches would be nice but fully expecting that to be delivered as paid DLC rather than freebies. Will certainly be keeping my eye out though for any developments.

[Kumorii]

I have a feeling we'll get some news by end of year, even if it's just a small bit of info regarding what to expect in the new game.

Some extra patches would be nice but fully expecting that to be delivered as paid DLC rather than freebies. Will certainly be keeping my eye out though for any developments.

Ruining my mood with the first sentence, but probably true. A wish I have is that they add Red XIII as playable when you get him as we get closer to release of part 2.

[Great Destiny Man]

Ruining my mood with the first sentence, but probably true. A wish I have is that they add Red XIII as playable when you get him as we get closer to release of part 2.

Now that's a pretty solid idea for DLC. Would get people used to Red XIII playstyle before the new game but you can have the content be light enough to not feel like you NEED to have played it before Part 2. You definitely have my vote on that one!

[Millyraynge]

I have a feeling we'll get some news by end of year, even if it's just a small bit of info regarding what to expect in the new game.

Some extra patches would be nice but fully expecting that to be delivered as paid DLC rather than freebies. Will certainly be keeping my eye out though for any developments.

E3 will give us answers

[Video Games]

E3 will give us answers

Good one.

[Binaris]

We might see part 2 in 2023. I doubt any sooner. Depends how much they port over. The stats got a bit too high for it to let you continue the same characters as much of the game is left. UNLESS they let you break the 9999 health and damage barrier in part 2/3. Will feels very weird to get to kalm and be powerless. I would have paid 180 for all 3 parts as one properly tied and balanced together cohesively.

[Fahrenheit]

We might see part 2 in 2023. I doubt any sooner. Depends how much they port over. The stats got a bit too high for it to let you continue the same characters as much of the game is left. UNLESS they let you break the 9999 health and damage barrier in part 2/3. Will feels very weird to get to kalm and be powerless. I would have paid 180 for all 3 parts as one properly tied and balanced together cohesively.

I'm pretty sure you can break the 9999 damage barrier.

Level 40+ Cloud
Equip Hardedge
Buy up all the attack power options on the weapon.
Equip Supernatural Wristguards
Use Infinity's Edge on a staggered enemy.

I could've swore I have some 12,000~14,000 numbers in those situations.

Not sure how continuity will play out in regards to levels/materia. Would suck to just lose it all, and be forced to start Part 2 at a predetermined level. On the other hand, being level 40~50 just leaving Midgar is OP as fuck. I suppose they could just make the numbers bigger and perhaps even not lock the players to a max level of 99, that way we'd have more room for growth over 3 (perhaps 4 games).

[Kumorii]

Ok. Starting to get pissed off... This is also something I consider a bug.

I've done all the chapters required and managed to get most dresses except Clouds third one. Ok, Played through the chapters until finished and I see I have 3/3 in play log with Tifa and Aerith. I load a save for another reason and the unlocks doesn't get saved. It gets overwritten by my play log progress from that save... -.- WOO!! have to fucking redo everything... AGAIN because the unlocks doesn't stay unlocked even after completing a chapter. Fucking christ.

[Big Thanks]

Can I ask a slightly off-topic question?

What makes the Final Fantasy games good in people's eyes?

I've tried to play a few of them... got some in my steam library, but I can never really get -really- into it. The music is good, the world design is pretty neat, the story usually is a bit wonky and interesting but I wouldn't say it's anything higher than a 7/10. The character customization is perhaps a 5/10 for me (and I don't often feel like I get much options during level ups)... So I'm wondering why other people love it so much?

Is it purely the world design and the story? Or is it the gameplay?

Only asking because it's one of those little personal mysteries that I can't figure out.

TBH i feel you.
They are just RPG's with big budgets now.
Back then...they were good stories DEPENDING on the persons taste.

I for one am extremely picky when it comes to my RPG's.
I need to absolutely love the "vibe", "characters","customization" and "design"

Im so picky...the only RPG ive ever finished was Breath Of Fire III & IV, Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifers Call and Dragon Quest 8.

And i am completely IN LOVE with FF XV because i love the gameplay loop...its basically a offline MMORPG with action gameplay.
Awwww yeah, and extremely big budget

[Kumorii]

Can I ask a slightly off-topic question?

What makes the Final Fantasy games good in people's eyes?

I've tried to play a few of them... got some in my steam library, but I can never really get -really- into it. The music is good, the world design is pretty neat, the story usually is a bit wonky and interesting but I wouldn't say it's anything higher than a 7/10. The character customization is perhaps a 5/10 for me (and I don't often feel like I get much options during level ups)... So I'm wondering why other people love it so much?

Is it purely the world design and the story? Or is it the gameplay?

Only asking because it's one of those little personal mysteries that I can't figure out. Just want to hear from someone why they love it. Maybe I'm just afraid I'm missing some gameplay things I didn't find yet after playing some of these games for 5-10 hours.

Mostly gameplay for me and lots of interesting side content with hidden bosses and such. I like that sort of thing.

[segara82]

Can I ask a slightly off-topic question?

What makes the Final Fantasy games good in people's eyes?

Is it purely the world design and the story? Or is it the gameplay?

For me it's those two. FF games usually build great, living worlds and most characters have good stories and motivations. Mechanically they are usually of a sound design, often with an 'easy to learn, harder to master' approach.

Let's stay with the old FF7 for a bit. Every character has, well, character, an origin story, solid motivation, and often enough quite some drama.
Cloud wants to be the coldhearted professional merc, but in reality he cares quite a bit for those he calls friends. During the story you see his dreams and ambitions (becoming a SOLDIER), how he fails (only a Shinra Security Guard), how he suffers and what injustices are done to him (Nibelheim and the experiments).
But, in the end, when he comes back he is more determined than ever.
Nearly every character grows during his time in the game, even side-characters like Yuffie.

The Materia-system seems rather easy, every Materia has a Name that more or less tells you everything it does. Pretty straightforward and simple.
But when you take some time and ponder how you can combine them for better effects you can make quite some powerful/interesting combinations.
A classic example would be using both the Phoenix-Summon-Materia (fire damage to enemies, revive on PCs) with the Last Order Materia (using the connected Materia when the wielder dies), ensuring that at least once per battle that character would get a free revive and damage the enemy.
There are a few good guides that list such combinations.

And FF games usually offer tons of minigames. In FF7 those can come up as a part of the story (eg bike-chase pn the highway) or completely voluntary (shooting hoops). All can help you along your way. You do not have to do them, but they can be a big help sometimes.

The thing is that some of the FF games are rather slow in storytelling. FF7 offers a lot of story in Midgard alone, but it leaves quite a bit about some characters unsaid until you leave and travel the world. The original Avalanche members are completely irrelevant,same as Wutai. The Remake does IMO a better job at showing you rather soon why Ancients are so important, how Wutai and Avalanche are more than just names and why everyone just shits his/her breaches when Sephiroth is mentioned.

As for the NPCs, i will not believe they are dead until i see a corpse. See point 13.
http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

[Great Destiny Man]

Can I ask a slightly off-topic question?

What makes the Final Fantasy games good in people's eyes?

I've tried to play a few of them... got some in my steam library, but I can never really get -really- into it. The music is good, the world design is pretty neat, the story usually is a bit wonky and interesting but I wouldn't say it's anything higher than a 7/10. The character customization is perhaps a 5/10 for me (and I don't often feel like I get much options during level ups)... So I'm wondering why other people love it so much?

Is it purely the world design and the story? Or is it the gameplay?

Only asking because it's one of those little personal mysteries that I can't figure out. Just want to hear from someone why they love it. Maybe I'm just afraid I'm missing some gameplay things I didn't find yet after playing some of these games for 5-10 hours.

Depends which FF games we're talking about here. Each had its own themes, combat and leveling systems as well as styles that have a big effect on how they play.

Also for the older games you need to keep it in the context of when it was released. The cinematics in things like 7 and 8 were considered stunning at the time but obviously isn't going to have the same impact to someone first experiencing it now.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Can I ask a slightly off-topic question?

What makes the Final Fantasy games good in people's eyes?

I've tried to play a few of them... got some in my steam library, but I can never really get -really- into it. The music is good, the world design is pretty neat, the story usually is a bit wonky and interesting but I wouldn't say it's anything higher than a 7/10. The character customization is perhaps a 5/10 for me (and I don't often feel like I get much options during level ups)... So I'm wondering why other people love it so much?

Is it purely the world design and the story? Or is it the gameplay?

Only asking because it's one of those little personal mysteries that I can't figure out. Just want to hear from someone why they love it. Maybe I'm just afraid I'm missing some gameplay things I didn't find yet after playing some of these games for 5-10 hours.

I don't love the Final Fantasy franchise.

I love individual games that just so happen to be apart of the FF franchise.

The first 6 FF games are pretty definitively Final Fantasy. Same director, same development team, same design philosophies. Stories about people who must come together and grow as people to rise to the mythic challenge that they face. In a way, FF's VII through IX - and X, somewhat - also kind of feel apart of this oldschool era, but not as much as I-VI.

Around the 2000's, you have a change within Square Enix. Most of the original developers were gone. Sakaguchi left the company and Square devolved from a studio that just made great games to a corporation walloping around like a headless chicken. They didn't make quality FF games anymore, instead trying to milk as much money out of the brand with endless spinoffs and crappy remasters and ports and mobile games.




People don't love Final Fantasy. They either love their favorite, individual Final Fantasy games, or they love the old school era of FFs, when Sakaguchi and his team put out amazing games one after another.

Personally, the FF's I really like are Final Fantasy Tactics A2 (for the gameplay), and Final Fantasy XIV (for being the only other ongoing video game saga with an excellent, really tight story besides the Trails series).