Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Blur4stuff]

More evidence that some people simply will not give a shit until it kills someone they happen to care about.

[CostinR]

That's true.

And if the meat came in a void, instead of being in a bag, or a box, or a can, or wrapped in plastic...you might have had a point there.

That applies to all containers but the virus doesn't survive for more then a few days, more then enough time between the processing plants and the supermarkets. You're at far higher risk of getting the virus not because of it spreading in the plants, but because other shoppers might have touched the package in the store.

I repeat this though: We aren't getting the virus from food, and yes that is counting packaged food. Here's what the guardian had to say: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...hopping-safely

"At this point, there’s no evidence that transmission is happening through food packaging. That said, we know the virus can remain viable on surfaces for hours or even days, so there’s a hypothetical risk of transmission through touching a contaminated surface and then touching your eyes, nose or mouth,” Marcus said. “Better than disinfecting, the thing we keep saying over and over again is to just wash your hands."

So yes the virus can survive on packages, what my point was about containers in my first earlier post, but we haven't had it spread like that: Yet. That could change, but not because the people in the plants are getting sick simply because it takes time to transport it.

EDIT: Let me stress out that food processing plants need to take measures to ensure worker safety to avoid getting the people working there from getting killed, but above all the food must flow no matter how bad it gets in those plants.

[jonnysensible]

This is interesting from roger stone world :

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/...04569.29.7.pdf
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...assange-219908

Isreali election meddling

[Pannonian]

CostinR does sort of have a point though

If the food is not processed the alternative would be people eventually starving (which, probably, will not help if they catch covid-19 either)

Food has to be "made"

The question is how to keep the workers as safe as possible while doing that obviously but it has to be done somehow

And why do you "need" meat?

I mean, i get the sentiment, but "these guys should work in unsafe conditions so my diet plan is not inconvenienced" is not a very good argument.

Meat shortage != food shortage.

And if our food stockpiles really are getting low, the more reason to end meat production (as meat production uses up more food than it produces in the end)

[Acidbaron]

And why do you "need" meat?

I mean, i get the sentiment, but "these guys should work in unsafe conditions so my diet plan is not inconvenienced" is not a very good argument.

Meat shortage != food shortage.

And if our food stockpiles really are getting low, the more reason to end meat production (as meat production uses up more food than it produces in the end)

If the US were to tone down its meat consumption to more normal levels this would be a good thing for everyone. It is far too inefficient to begin with far too much water is squandered.

If people are to work in unsafe conditions the meat itself when not cooked at home and the packaging will become carriers of the virus. I wonder if the next step from the US government is to no longer let companies be held accountable for their product in addition to no longer being liable for their workers.

US is heading towards a new form of feudalism.

[Twdft]

Developed nations waste about a third of all food produced, so there might be a bit of leeway before we run out of food.

Bill Maher had some choice words about meat production last show.

[Acidbaron]

Developed nations waste about a third of all food produced, so there might be a bit of leeway before we run out of food.

Bill Maher had some choice words about meat production last show.

Oh Real time still running? been ages since i watched that.

Could also very well be that corporations are writing the narrative and creating a food shortage as a reason to open up the industry again.

[Flarelaine]

Grats.

Personally, I'm liking the 5th Edition. 4th was garbage, so I've been playing 3.5 and 3 for about 20 years.

5th is good for quick & easy games, it has good flow. 3.x is good for complex games, campaigns, hardcore nerds.

Now I just need to figure out what monster Trump would be.

How about a nupperibo?

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Once Covid is over, I'm gonna run a 1 shot, 2nd edit box campaign I love, letting them use 3.5 characters for my coworkers. 2nd edit Ravenloft "The Created".

Is that the one which begins with the player characters being turned into flesh golems? We committed collective suicide when our DM tried it on us.

[Omega10]

You have to remember the weekend effect. Since most of the data is reported for the previous day, we tend to see a "lull" in numbers reported on Sunday and Monday due to a lack of complete accounting over the weekend days. This is always followed by a big "jump" on Tuesday to accommodate the make-up numbers.

And it is becoming a pattern that each weekend, the business community uses the "lull" to drive home the point that "Get back to work, the war against the virus is basically over and WE WON." The actions recommended by the business community seem to be geared towards maximizing the number of Americans that get the virus. The "pork workers, you MUST come back to work with no social distancing and insufficient protection from the virus" is a pretty good way to help the virus out.

On the one hand, the numbers are not as bad as I expected them to be. On the other hand, the numbers are not good. It looks like we'll make 60k by the end of April... 100k by the end of May? We would have to drive the average down to around 1k deaths a day to not have that happen. I am doubtful.

[Themius]

And why do you "need" meat?

I mean, i get the sentiment, but "these guys should work in unsafe conditions so my diet plan is not inconvenienced" is not a very good argument.

Meat shortage != food shortage.

And if our food stockpiles really are getting low, the more reason to end meat production (as meat production uses up more food than it produces in the end)

Meat shortage is a food shortage... this is not the time for “let’s be vegan”

[Xarkan]

And why do you "need" meat?

I mean, i get the sentiment, but "these guys should work in unsafe conditions so my diet plan is not inconvenienced" is not a very good argument.

Meat shortage != food shortage.

And if our food stockpiles really are getting low, the more reason to end meat production (as meat production uses up more food than it produces in the end)

I did not claim anyone need meat.. i said food

I also never said send people to work "in unsafe conditions so my diet plan is not inconvenienced"

I said "The question is how to keep the workers as safe as possible while doing that obviously" rather

[Poopymonster]

5th is good for quick & easy games, it has good flow. 3.x is good for complex games, campaigns, hardcore nerds.



How about a nupperibo?

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Is that the one which begins with the player characters being turned into flesh golems? We committed collective suicide when our DM tried it on us.

Not flesh golems, Small 12-16 inch tall puppets, while the "souls" in the puppets created by Josiah Pedeaux while trying to make a real living son take over the players bodies, complete with all the players powers. Puppets now containing the players souls have very limited abilities/powers. The kickers being A: You have to track down the player's bodies to get them back in all their min/max cheesy goodness, and B: There is nothing saying you have to take your own body back.

[Pannonian]

Meat shortage is a food shortage... this is not the time for “let’s be vegan”

Calm down buddy, i'm not trying to convince anyone to be vegan, i'm just pointing out that meat production consumes more food than it produces, so if there is not enough food, ramping up meat production isn't the best idea.

And I sincerely doubt this is a decision between normal meat rations and zero meat rations.

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I did not claim anyone need meat.. i said food

I also never said send people to work "in unsafe conditions so my diet plan is not inconvenienced"

I said "The question is how to keep the workers as safe as possible while doing that obviously" rather

My comment was more directed at the whole conversation. If you felt attacked by my post, i apologize, i didn't intend to portray it in a way that "unsafe conditions" were you words.

Your last sentence i can fully support.

[Edge-]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jared-...60000?ref=home

We've passed the Vietnam threshold, more Americans have died of the coronavirus in under a year than over that entire war which lasted well over a decade.

And according to Kushner, who was once one of the people in charge of the task forces responding to this but has been conspicuously absent in recent weeks, having more Americans die than the Vietnam War, with many more expected, is a "great success story"

[Breccia]

And according to Kushner, who was once one of the people in charge of the task forces responding to this but has been conspicuously absent in recent weeks, having more Americans die than the Vietnam War, with many more expected, is a "great success story"

Yeah, a lot of premature celebration going on with that. It's looking more and more like we're going to hit that 100,000-240,000 range Fauci brought up before, which of course is still an order of magnitude better than the one million dead if nobody does anything. I'm not even 100% sure what they're celebrating, considering the federal government has been seizing medical supplies, didn't close the borders in any meaningful way but claimed they did ("airtight"), is ordering people back to work in a nearly literal military draft without upping the safety at the places in question, fire the CDC pandemic response team, turn the daily press briefings into "you're fake news, no more questions", threatened to end stay-at-home orders from governors, and of course

It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine

[Omega10]

Not just "under a year," but in 2 months.

Jan 31, just 3 months ago - 7 confirmed cases, 0 fatalities
Feb 29, just 2 months ago - 62 confirmed cases, 0 fatalities
Mar 31, just 1 month ago - 186,633 confirmed cases, 3,833 fatalities
Apr 29 so far, today - 1,037,883 confirmed cases, 59,256 fatalities

Most of it happened just in April. It's amazing how recent ago it was when there were few cases and no deaths.

[Breccia]

It's amazing how recent ago it was when there were few cases and no deaths.

I think a vast portion of America has learned what "exponential" literally means. Of course, some of the others are re-opening beaches and restaurants, so there's still work to be done.

[Captain N]

I think a vast portion of America has learned what "exponential" literally means. Of course, some of the others are re-opening beaches and restaurants, so there's still work to be done.

And still others are suing (and temporarily winning) governors for imposing the stay-at-home order. Naturally it's from a Republican lawmaker in rural downstate Illinois.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...e-rules-lifted

[Edge-]

I'll also note, that in addition to being more deaths than the 20 years of the Vietnam War, we're reaching the top-end of annual flu deaths.

CDC estimates that between 12-60,000 people die each year from the flu or complications from the flu, it's difficult to get exact data.

So, for the months that conservatives said, "This is just the flu, but more people die from the flu!"

Well, it took roughly 4 months, including a month+ of social distancing and isolation that never happens during the flu, to reach the 12 month high-end estimate for deaths.

If there was justice, the people who spent months dismissing this as "the flu" will be stricken with the flu for the rest of their lives.

[Breccia]

Today's already a tire fire of sucknews. Let's throw on some wet dog hair while we're at it.

1) Fauci tells real news CNN that we need to stay alert or things get worse, soon.

If by that time we have put into place all of the countermeasures that you need to address this, we should do reasonably well. If we don't do that successfully, we could be in for a bad fall and a bad winter.

The truth is that we're going in the right direction. But we need to continue to partner in a very active collaborative way with the states, we need to help them the same way they need to do the execution.

From watching the video, I believe "all the countermeasures" doesn't mean "vaccine". He's said that's still at least 10 months off.

2) Speaking of states, some of them aren't feeling so hot. A majority of people in Colorado oppose re-opening the state early, and more importantly, a majority of those who lost their jobs because of the coronavirus oppose it.

Oregon has a 100,000 backlog of unemployment claims and some Oregonians have been waiting for a month for their due funds.

And the same people backing Trump's "only I can fix it, total authority" stance and also defending his constant blatant lying are suing the governor of MIchigan claiming the stay-at-home order violated due process and did not give enough of the information leading to the closures.

3) You may or may not have caught this, but the coronavirus relief act gave the Pentagon funds to reimburse contractors. Apparently it's not enough, because at least one Democrat is saying he will oppose any new bill that gives the Pentagon more funds, while defense officials have been asking for billions more. Again, this is going to stress-test McConnell's carapace to the breaking point. He'd be hard pressed to get SBA funds as it is, asking for more military funds from Democrats is going to require a big concession in return.

And those times I suggested McConnell would cave are looking better. He was just on FOX News, the only platform with a basking light and kale, saying the next relief bill would have liability protection for medical staff and hospitals.

"What's wrong with that?"

Actually, nothing. But remember the drill: anything McConnell wants, Pelosi gets matching funds, or the bill won't pass.

"Wait, Pelosi and Schumer would fight against this?"

Well, yes, actually, but they have a point. McConnell has blocked aid to state and local governments, bla bla bla "let them eat bankrupt cake". Suddenly there's funds for something else he wants instead. The Democratic leadership are calling him out on his bullshit, even if the bullshit is being used to plant crops it's still bullshit. There's money, or there isn't, pick a side.

And he better pick quickly. The US insurance industry is asking for taxpayer help for all those businesses that closed because coronavirus, then asked the insurance companies for the money they were due. This is kind of like what happened to real estate insurance on Sept 11, costing $32 billion, and yes they were bailed out at the time, except it's everywhere. Which means one of three things will happen:
1) They're lying, and just don't want to spend their money (cited article says the US insurance industry as a whole has $700 billion lying around), or
2) They're telling the truth, but McConnell doesn't give them anything, companies don't get the money they were contractually owed and are forced to close, or
3) McConnell caves to yet another large business and has to give Pelosi more funds to compensate.

4) They layoffs continue. Already struggling Boeing cuts 10% of their workforce. Lyft is firing 17% and furloughing others. And Uber is reportedly looking at 20% as their CTO resigns.

"CTO?"

Chief Technology Officer.

5) Yeah yeah, you know this one, GDP falls by 4.8% worst since W's Great Recession. And no, this is not good news.

Mohamed A. El-Erian, chief economic adviser to the financial firm Allianz, wrote on Twitter that the drop was worse than expected and "indicative of the huge economic hit." He added that the second-quarter decline "could be as large as 40 percent."

The U.S. economy is not technically in recession, which requires two consecutive quarters of GDP decline. But there is little doubt among economists that the decline will continue, and likely sharpen, in the second quarter of this year.

Later on Wednesday, the Federal Reserve's Open Market Committee will make a statement and could announce further stimulus for the economy on top of its massive Treasury purchases and historically-low interest rates.

I'm honestly surprised the Fed has any gas left in the tank at this point. I'm really curious as to what they can still do that will help.

6) More and more proof that Phase One with China is dead. China openly trolls and mocks Trump's late response, saying

On Jan. 23 when Wuhan went under lockdown, the United States reported only one confirmed case, but on March 13 when President Trump announced a national emergency, the United States reported over 1,600 confirmed cases

In this interval of 50 days, what was the U.S. government doing? Where have those 50 days gone?

At the same, time, Trump (and some House GOP members) want an investigation into China and the WHO about the intentional spread of misinformation, one of the most ironic things I've ever posted.

It's just one person coming over from China. Everything's going to be fine

7) We've seen some of the loopholes in the SBA funds addressed, but here's one I haven't seen before: if you outsource people overseas you still get funds because your US workforce is the requirement, not your total workforce.

It's also worth noting that any hotel business of any size can get these funds. Hmm. Why would Trump, of all people, want hotels to be protected? Let's think.

8) More on this later, but, the meat packers Trump just drafted don't want to return to an unsafe, unprotected worksite which is why they were closed in the first place. They might unionize or just flat-out not go.

9) As bad as the coronavirus death count is we just don't have the testing in place to know if it's accurate. ABC News talked to experts who suggest it could be low by thousands, maybe even tens of thousands.

And finally, even after all this,

10) The top story on FOX News right now is Biden. Specifically, FOX News, defender of admitted multiple-adulterer and pussy-grabber Trump, are using as their top story today that Biden wasn't exonorated. You know, like Trump wasn't. When he was impeached.

I suppose I could end this long-ass post with "wow, I guess both sides really do spin their own narrative!" but that would just be going after low-hanging fruit.