9.0 General Discussion

[johnny download]

I don't see the Blizzard announcements during the Summer Game Fest being about anything other than Diablo 4 and Overwatch 2 but I'd love to be wrong. Would be cool for WoW to get the spotlight.

[Makabreska]

She was though (lieutenant of the big bad that is beaten and unlocks the next area after being involved in questing), except she didn't die. Because there are story threads and aesthetics connected to Azshara (elf wars/void) that are continuing past BFA.

Death stuff? Eh....

Eh, no. When people thought Gul'dan 2.0, they thought "second raid boss, that's gonna get axed".

I don't see the Blizzard announcements during the Summer Game Fest being about anything other than Diablo 4 and Overwatch 2 but I'd love to be wrong. Would be cool for WoW to get the spotlight.

That's what I also think. OW2 and D4 are higher profile games, and we are fed info about SL from data minings and interviews each week, anyway.

[EbaumsTipster]

Eh, no. When people thought Gul'dan 2.0, they thought "second raid boss, that's gonna get axed".

Is that why we kept seeing constant "wtf bros no Azshara wouldn't die in this expansion right??" posts and theories? I personally thought she would die but being the big bad lieutenant of a larger villain is definitely Gul'dan's thing and Sylvanas is even MORESO a "lieutenant" than Azshara was (who doesn't even match Nzoth's aesthetic besides tentacles while Sylvanas is literally wearing a Jailer cheerleader uniform).

Can you imagine seeing Sylvanas in that stupid outfit OUTSIDE of the Maw? Yeah.

Azshara is massively more important to the overall lore and cosmology than either Gul'dan or Sylvanas.

[Makabreska]

Azshara is massively more important to the overall lore and cosmology than either Gul'dan or Sylvanas.

Debatable, regarding overall importance. Azshara was a major player in War of the Ancients, and she did lots of stuff behind the scene after that, but Sylvi and her direct actions kickstarted second expansion in a row.

[Sondrelk]

Is that why we kept seeing constant "wtf bros no Azshara wouldn't die in this expansion right??" posts and theories? I personally thought she would die but being the big bad lieutenant of a larger villain is definitely Gul'dan's thing and Sylvanas is even MORESO a "lieutenant" than Azshara was (who doesn't even match Nzoth's aesthetic besides tentacles while Sylvanas is literally wearing a Jailer cheerleader uniform).

Can you imagine seeing Sylvanas in that stupid outfit OUTSIDE of the Maw? Yeah.

Azshara is massively more important to the overall lore and cosmology than either Gul'dan or Sylvanas.

I would argue that Sylvanas will survive to be the final boss, not necessarily because she deserves it, but because the Jailer isnt nearly as interesting a driving villain when you could have players look forward to killing Sylvanas instead.
Even if it was, I imagine that the expansion would feel like a bit of a letdown after Sylvanas dies, which is why she should be the final boss. In the same way that WotLK would feel like it had a terrible ending if Yogg-saron was the final boss instead of Arthas.

The comparision to Gul'dan is apt, but unlike that the forces of Death are not that well built up, unlike with the Legion where we knew that when Gul'dan died we had his superiors we already had an investment in to defeat afterwards. We do have the Jailer, but as i said, I don't think he is well developed enough to carry the expansion.

[Raetary]

I hope they make another animation series.
I really want one about the helm of domination and frostmourne and how they got created.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It's pretty obvious that her position is almost 1:1 Gul'dan in Nighthold, even with her being the bad guy lieutenant at the top of the magic tower. Just... they didn't confirm that she's the boss.

I call bullshit on any idea that Jailer gets axed in the second (main) raid. Guessing they will reveal filler raid (Kel'thuzad and Naxx 3) as well as extra Maw content/Maw raid.

I agree that they will hardly axe the jailer that early, but I'm inclined to believe that Sylvanas will not be Guldan 2.0 but rather Jaina 2.0.

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I hope they make another animation series.
I really want one about the helm of domination and frostmourne and how they got created.

I wonder how bad animation work got affected by Covid-19, though I personally hope we will get some juicy backstory on the major actors of the shadowlands. I wouldn't mind some explanation of the jailer and arbiter dynamic or some general shadowlands lore, some backstory for the 9.0 raid boss and so on, like how how the harbingers of war correlated with the patches 8.0 to 8.2. My worst fear is we will get a love letter to Nathanos.

[matrix123mko]

Unironically, I still wish the new/WoD model for Gorehowl was obtainable.

This should have been fury artifact. Two Gorehowls from both timelines.

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Her design and her voice actor really were stellar as well. And I think at some point Blizzard just wants to keep at least some big names around.

Yes. I think they just left her for later, as they have seen people's reaction to Nazjatar being a zone.

[Raetary]

My worst fear is we will get a love letter to Nathanos.

Disgusting.


Idk about the jailer and Arbiter, i feel like they'd keep that storyline for us to explore in game.
It'd be cool to have one episode for each Covenant/Covenant leader tho, explaining what the Covenant is about and so on.

What we are most likely gonna get is one about Bolvar and the scourge, god forbid another one about Sylvanas and maybe Tyrande or something.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Hmm explaining the covenants is also something that would be nice, but at the end of the day most of the things we could realistically expect would be kinda spoilers, yet these videos are usually released before to drum up hype. Generally I'd think the rule is the same as with movies: Rather spoil too much to get people into the seats than be too vague. The covenants would probably be a good idea to get people hyped and would also back up the expansion's core concept.

I could see a tyrande and voljin one as well to give context for each faction.

[THEORACLE64]

I’m finding it hard to see that Sylvanas won’t be the boss before The Jailer tbh. Unless they really do Mary Sue her...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I’m finding it hard to see that Sylvanas won’t be the boss before The Jailer tbh. Unless they really do Mary Sue her...

......Who is she a self insert? Like what is this nonsense about being a mary sue.

[EbaumsTipster]

If Sylvanas didn't get the Torghast armor then I would think there's a slim shot that she Jaina's out of there and we fight her again later.

But now she's 100% "I'm in Torghast", wouldn't it be silly for her to wear that outfit anywhere else? I even think it's possible that she doesn't die in her fight and instead gets thrown deep into the Maw forever... so technically she could be like Jaina and not die by our hands. But I don't think she's making it past the Maw.

We even MAYBE have another form of the Jailer while Sylvanas doesn't have another form.

[Halfaheart]

I can see Sylvanas being the final 9.1 raid boss where we attempt to stop her from releasing the Jailer but she survives.

We'll have to fight our way deeper into the Maw that's filled with 10 bosses split between suffering/damned lore figures and SL natives. We ultimately get to the Jailer's chamber where Sylvanas is about to break the chains. We fight, she cops out at 1% frees the Jailer in a cutscene, then escapes. 9.2 filler raid with maybe another Afterlife being explored that hasn't been hit by the Anima drought so we can refuel (maybe two?). 9.3 the final showdown with The Jailer & Sylvanas.

[huth]

I can see Sylvanas being the final 9.1 raid boss where we attempt to stop her from releasing the Jailer but she survives.

We'll have to fight our way deeper into the Maw that's filled with 10 bosses split between suffering/damned lore figures and SL natives. We ultimately get to the Jailer's chamber where Sylvanas is about to break the chains. We fight, she cops out at 1% frees the Jailer in a cutscene, then escapes. 9.2 filler raid with maybe another Afterlife being explored that hasn't been hit by the Anima drought so we can refuel (maybe two?). 9.3 the final showdown with The Jailer & Sylvanas.

I don't think the Jailer is actually imprisoned beyond being stuck in the Maw.

That aside, i'd prefer if he just casts her aside the moment she stops being useful.

[EbaumsTipster]

Thing is, if Sylvanas is a fight in 9.1 then lives she likely will get axed in a cutscene or be nothing more than window dressing to a later conflict. I don't think they've ever reused a boss twice in the same expansion.

The only way around this would be one archer round and one banshee fight but... I think that's stretching it. Those are more likely just phases in one fight.

[Halfaheart]

I don't think the Jailer is actually imprisoned beyond being stuck in the Maw.

That aside, i'd prefer if he just casts her aside the moment she stops being useful.

That could be the case. I just feel like the chains on his model are from him ~escaping~ something. Maybe the Anima is being rerouted for that exact reason. I have no idea, I just know that I'm extremely excited to find out

[Justpassing]

Unless someone John Wick's her in the middle of her evil monologue I won't be happy.

[Sondrelk]

I’m finding it hard to see that Sylvanas won’t be the boss before The Jailer tbh. Unless they really do Mary Sue her...

It's not about being a Mary Sue, as much as that term gets thrown around a bit too fast and loose these days.
It is about the Jailer not being as interesting a villain as Sylvanas, and the possibility that the expansion kinda fizzles out early if she is defeated too fast.

Consider for a moment Sylvanas being defeated in 9.1 in a climactic boss fight befitting her hateable status as a villain for the past few expansions. What could the Jailer possibly do to top the kind of investment players have in Sylvanas at that point? He would pretty much have to ressurect a whole bunch of previous villains to take Sylvanas spot to prevent player interest in the story to dwindle, and as much as many players don't care about story they do notice when the final boss isnt that interesting or climactic, and the Jailer is decidedly not.
To illustrate my point, imagine that in Legion we defeat Sargeras in 9.2, and then the final raid is about going to Argus to defeat the world soul.
Yes, it technically works, and it is an escalation, but the players don't care much about Argus on his own, and would have been that much more interested in the final patch if Sargeras was there as the final carrot on a stick incentive, as he indeed was.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Thing is, if Sylvanas is a fight in 9.1 then lives she likely will get axed in a cutscene or be nothing more than window dressing to a later conflict. I don't think they've ever reused a boss twice in the same expansion.

The only way around this would be one archer round and one banshee fight but... I think that's stretching it. Those are more likely just phases in one fight.

If you're talking reusing purely in raids, no. They have done it a couple of times with dungeon bosses-raid bosses. Anubarak, Gorefiend, and the Blood Princes in ICC come to mind.