I would love to see the removal of heirlooms from the game.

[Heavens Night]

I don't make this thread to convince myself not to use heirlooms. I would like to see it removed from the game in its current form and replaces by something which is a bit like it, but doesn't ruin the fun for other people.

I was actually looking forward to classic because of this reason. But in that game, this was extremely more worse when I got to SM dungeons as everything was about AOEing like mindless dummies 24/7.

You mean they are being optimal. Something else you clearly don't understand I see.

[Seranthor]

Its my experience over 15 years by talking to people who play the game. So my "evidence" is pretty much the same as everybody else. The closest thing to "evidence" I have is the popularity of leveling itself without paying for a boost.

If you think that your opinion is some part of a majority in the community, I can quite surely say you are being delusional.

Let me be clear here... I dont care about your experience... either you can back up your claims with actual evidence, or you cant... If you cant or wont then your claims can be discarded as unfounded, baseless or otherwise bullshit. The degenracy here is you think you know what is best for all of us when you dont even know what is best for you (Your own words, I'll go back and find them if you insist).

[rhorle]

Pokemon does have item progression, you start with basic pokeballs, basic heals, energy etc, and as you progress through the game more powerful options become avaliable for you, same goes for pokemon abilitys and the pokemon themselves.

But then that same type of progression exists while leveling with heirlooms. Because they don't cover all existing slots now so you still gain more powerful items as you progress. Which means by your own words heirlooms do not violate the core rule of RPG games.

[TorAndre]

Sorry dude, but people like you, who think they can dictate to everybody else what is good and what isn't are what is bad with the game or the community in general.

You're welcome to your opinion about heirlooms of course. But it is nothing more than that. I'll keep my heirlooms thanks, and use them as much as I like.

Which is what 90% of all the forums posts is about. Explaining what is bad and good about the game and how to improve it. I am being "dictated to" on a daily basis what is good for bad and me all the time. I simply disagree and therefore think I am in the right to bring suggestions as well.

TLDR: Heirlooms are bad as a system for the game in general. It encourages degenerate playstyles which affect everyone who joins dungeons. I bring in suggestions to fix it so that more people can enjoy the game. Including yourself. Instead of sounding narsisistic with your "Do not dare bring your suggestions to this forum" nonsense. Rather be grateful that people wants to improve the game for you.

[Heavens Night]

Which is what 90% of all the forums posts is about. Explaining what is bad and good about the game and how to improve it. I am being "dictated to" on a daily basis what is good for bad and me all the time. I simply disagree and therefore think I am in the right to bring suggestions as well.

TLDR: Heirlooms are bad as a system for the game in general. It encourages degenerate playstyles which affect everyone who joins dungeons. I bring in suggestions to fix it so that more people can enjoy the game. Including yourself. Instead of sounding narsisistic with your "Do not dare bring your suggestions to this forum" nonsense. Rather be grateful that people wants to improve the game for you.

You see, there is a clear difference between making suggestions, and telling people that you know what is best for them.
But I don't expect you to understand that either.

[TorAndre]

Let me be clear here... I dont care about your experience... either you can back up your claims with actual evidence, or you cant... If you cant or wont then your claims can be discarded as unfounded, baseless or otherwise bullshit. The degenracy here is you think you know what is best for all of us when you dont even know what is best for you (Your own words, I'll go back and find them if you insist).

Let me be even more clear. If you don't care about my opinion that completely fine. I don't feel a huge need to reply to you or clarify simple logic to you. I am doing it for the sake of politeness. If you don't want answer, don't ask.

This is a forum where people share opinions. Its not a scientific discussion board about life saving subjects where every claim has to be proven with evidence. I base my arguments and suggestions on experience and anecdotal evidence. That's good enough for me and its just as good as what 90% of all the other people here bring in as suggestions.

No one knows what actually best for them. Not even you. To assume otherwise is completely irrational.

[Kemsa]

How the leveling works right now, Heirlooms are part of the solution.

But when Shadowlands hits and the Char level crunch, ilvl squish and expansions overrall level crunch, happens.
You will probably take 10 hours from 1 to 50 without heirlooms. Lower with full setup of leveling.

So for new players they will take their time and probably, enjoy the game, just like we did 15 years ago, you will not be rushing 119 levels anymore, just 49 to reach shadowlands. Also you will choose and expansion and experience their storylines until you reach 50.

So right now, removing heirlooms, are not worth it, they are fixing a problems that was normal for TBC but became a problem with WoTLK and then started scalating.
Maybe for shadowlands blizz decides to remove them or change them, who knows. On the alpha they already nerfed Bonus objectives and Treasures on WoD, so take consideration that.

[Heavens Night]

Let me be even more clear. If you don't care about my opinion that completely fine. I don't feel a huge need to reply to you or clarify simple logic to you. I am doing it for the sake of politeness. If you don't want answer, don't ask.

This is a forum where people share opinions. Its not a scientific discussion board about life saving subjects where every claim has to be proven with evidence. I base my arguments and suggestions on experience and anecdotal evidence. That's good enough for me and its just as good as what 90% of all the other people here bring in as suggestions.

No one knows what actually best for them. Not even you. To assume otherwise is completely irrational.

Yet you claim to know what is best for everybody.

Go figure.

[TorAndre]

You see, there is a clear difference between making suggestions, and telling people that you know what is best for them.
But I don't expect you to understand that either.

Sometimes there is a difference, and sometimes there isn't.

Example: People wanted stat templates in PVP. 1 person could stand up in that scenario and say "No. Hear that you want stat-templates and I think you are all wrong about wanting it because I think its a bad system because X and Y"

That is a person who "knows what is best for them" and in that case. He was right.

[Saltysquidoon]

Pokemon does have item progression, you start with basic pokeballs, basic heals, energy etc, and as you progress through the game more powerful options become avaliable for you, same goes for pokemon abilitys and the pokemon themselves.

Pokeballs are not even vaguely comparable to gear progression, nor are pokemon or abilities. In fact, pokemon are inherently scalable just like heirlooms.

I get it, this is the internet so you're unlikely to want to step back from your position. But I think it's best not to exchange pages of detailed argument about pokemon's relation to gear progression in a thread about wow.

[TorAndre]

Yet you claim to know what is best for everybody.

Go figure.

On this topic. I do. On some other part of the game. I don't. But maybe some other guy has a brilliant solution I would never think of. Its quite natural.

[Heavens Night]

On this topic. I do. On some other part of the game. I don't. But maybe some other guy has a brilliant solution I would never think of. Its quite natural.

I'm sorry, I appear to have lost count of the amount of times you have contradicted yourself.

[Seranthor]

No one knows what actually best for them. Not even you. To assume otherwise is completely irrational.

Yet you repeatedly have claimed that removing heirlooms is what is best. You dont even know what is best FOR ANYONE. And you want to call others irrational? My experience with you in this thread is that you are a liar and will say and do anything you can to get your way.

[heartless8604]

I just want the exp gain to not be attached to them and just enabled by default. So heirlooms become just gear you don't have to upgrade. I want the exp boost but I want to actually get items and weapons as I level.

[Eapoe]

***Yes, I know I’m keeping this thread going by adding to it***
Have any of you thought about just letting this thread die? There’s an old saying: Don’t feed the trolls.
Just stop and the thread will disappear and you won’t have to waste time trying to show this person they are wrong (which he/she obviously is) and move on to more important things.

[rhorle]

You are the one who insulted me and dismissed my 'silly' ideas, I didnt even bring up I was a game developer until you called my ideas stupid and silly, so get real honestly. You dont even know what a freaking RPG is and yet you're here attacking me personally.

I didn't call your idea stupid. I called offsetting a nerf with an increase boost to experience silly. I know what a role playing game is and I haven't attacked you personally at all. You are not an idea but a person. A common sense distinction that you as a game designer should be able to understand. Because design requires iteration of ideas to separate the wheat from the chaff.

You literally described the system we already have as something you want, and were telling me that my system punishes people for heirlooms, which it literally dosent but you dont understand the system clearly. Thank god you arent a developer. It was quite simple in essence.

The system I suggested is no where to what we have now because players with out heirlooms are not given scaling gear. So if your game design ability is anything like your reading ability then you aren't very good. Reducing the power of heirlooms is punishing people who wear them because you want to incentivize people to not use the heirloom. It is simple logic and yet you ignore that is what you are doing. A nerf to make something less powerful so it isn't used all the time is a punishment.

I didnt state that they were ONLY for XP boost, I said primarily, which is correct. So point over. Stop going down this route and beating the dead horse, its laughable at this point.

Rhorle, the whole point of heirlooms is the XP bonus, not how powerful the item is. They are there to help players level faster on alt accounts.

So if the whole point is the XP boost then that means they also were not created to scale. You never said primarily. You also said quite clearly that the point of heirlooms is not their scaling ability because it isn't about how powerful the item is. Scaling to always be same level is the power of the item.

See Rhorle, when you are in an office and you are designing a system, generally you outline what it does, then cross compare that to the genre/gameplay loop, and if any of those systems go against what you are trying to make, which in this case in an RPG, you rethink, Heirlooms are that. Again, if you dont understand what im saying there, not my problem.

Heirlooms have existed for around 12 years now. It is part of the game play loop and does not violate "Core RPG" rules. There isn't even a universal standard for what is core to an RPG and what automatically makes your game no longer an RPG if it includes X feature. Clearly Heirlooms do not go against the RPG that Blizzard is trying to make if they have existed for 12 years and keep having active development.

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No one knows what actually best for them. Not even you. To assume otherwise is completely irrational.

Then why do you keep claiming that you know what is best for everyone else and that only you know what people really want.

[TorAndre]

I just want the exp gain to not be attached to them and just enabled by default. So heirlooms become just gear you don't have to upgrade. I want the exp boost but I want to actually get items and weapons as I level.

I agree completely

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***Yes, I know I’m keeping this thread going by adding to it***
Have any of you thought about just letting this thread die? There’s an old saying: Don’t feed the trolls.
Just stop and the thread will disappear and you won’t have to waste time trying to show this person they are wrong (which he/she obviously is) and move on to more important things.

I am thinking exaclty just that. Its a matter of discipline I guess. Its a good idea.

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Yet you repeatedly have claimed that removing heirlooms is what is best. You dont even know what is best FOR ANYONE. And you want to call others irrational? My experience with you in this thread is that you are a liar and will say and do anything you can to get your way.

Well I am sorry that you feel that way. Maybe you will see the world in a new light some day

[Heavens Night]

I agree completely

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I am thinking exaclty just that. Its a matter of discipline I guess. Its a good idea.

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Well I am sorry that you feel that way. Maybe you will see the world in a new light some day

Maybe you will come to understand that you do not know what is best for anyone after all.

[TorAndre]

I'm sorry, I appear to have lost count of the amount of times you have contradicted yourself.

If you think I have contradicted myself, then bring up examples. I might have worded myself incorrectly, even though the concept and vision of my suggestion is coherent.

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Maybe you will come to understand that you do not know what is best for anyone after all.

That is perfectly viable option. Everyone think they know what is best, untill its proven that they don't. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't. It shouldn't stop anyone from trying.

[Heavens Night]

If you think I have contradicted myself, then bring up examples. I might have worded myself incorrectly, even though the concept and vision of my suggestion is coherent.

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That is perfectly viable option. Everyone think they know what is best, untill its proven that they don't. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren't. It shouldn't stop anyone from trying.

I and others have already quoted a number of times where you have clearly contradicted yourself.

It's ok, I know you have dug a very deep hole here, but just hold your hands up and admit you are completely wrong. Take the morale high ground, be a better person, instead of trying to troll everybody with ridiculous statements like "No one knows what actually best for them. Not even you. To assume otherwise is completely irrational."

... and then saying you know whats best for everybody.

Come on dude, enough is enough.