Common Sense For WoW Characters 101

[Darth-Piekus]

You have a fair point that BFA Sylvanas shows a lot greater resilience than Cata Sylvanas in the "getting killed" department. My point was more that regardless of whether Godfrey fired a normal bullet or a cursed bullet, someone else should be able to match Godfrey's power at that moment. Whether that power is still sufficient to kill Sylvanas wasn't really relevant in my mind to that discussion, since the discussion was around that particular moment. For all we know, Sylvanas in her current incarnation is unkillable (but that seems to me to do more with the Maw/Jailer/souls power-up than being an undead).

I wouldn't say unkillable. A small slash from Shalamayne scared her face pretty badly. Without plot armor that could have probably been her head. But we are getting off topic on something that we will probably see soon in Shadowlands. We will learn how resilient she is.

Jaina now protects her father instead of letting him die.

And two interesting scenarios. Thrall telling Garrosh both the good and the bad of Grom Hellscream and Garrosh is not the typical Hellscream but a diplomat who will defend himself if needed but only if needed and not a megalomaniac monster.

Sylvannas when gaining her free is the same as she was in life and actually cares for her people working with both factions to cure undeath instead of becoming the enemy of Life.

[omeomorfismo]

You said you're a mathematician. If we go off the 2/3, 1/3 argument, then C0 of the Cantor ternary set consists of all of the points on the line segment (since 2/3 of the points are there, all of them must be!). Extend the argument to C1, C2, etc., and now you have...a line segment. I don't think you're necessarily wrong about the cursed bullets, but I think you need more evidence than generalizing from a 2/3 instance to all of them.

Ultimately, does it matter what bullet Godfrey used? Godfrey accomplished the feat of killing her. Others could mimic that feat; while Godfrey wasn't a common footman, he wasn't exactly an exceptional individual in terms of abilities.

i even said that math proofs are impossible in any narrative. what i did was a developing a scientific "theory" using what the setting gave us specifically because the guy asserted "im more a scientific guy".

I have, plenty.

I never questioned the use of cursed bullets, I said there's no evidence that the cursed bullets are what made them effective.

And yet the regular lead bullets and steel blades killed them all the same... And have continued to kill them all the same when used by regular soldiers in WoW.

It was narrorated from the third person explaining Sylvanas' decision making process. It was not word of god, the fact that it didn't do what she thought it would is proof of that.

"hi , im totally a dead guy"
then the only sure method to kill a zombie without any magic is burning the corpse, otherwise the simple dismemberment isnt enough. something like the naruto immortal villain hidan... and to be clear, im not saying that undeads are invicible, a dismembered zombie is useless, he cant do anything like a simple dead suffering forever in his undeath.

? what? the fall did exactly what is written. the body destroyed and the soul killed (because you know, she is a banshee) otherwise she would float like Lady Nightswood

[Schattenlied]

"hi , im totally a dead guy"
then the only sure method to kill a zombie without any magic is burning the corpse, otherwise the simple dismemberment isnt enough. something like the naruto immortal villain hidan... and to be clear, im not saying that undeads are invicible, a dismembered zombie is useless, he cant do anything like a simple dead suffering forever in his undeath.

There's a difference between a mindless zombie and a concious, aware, freewill undead.

The guy in the picture doesn't need functioning brain or nervous system, he's entirely controlled by an external magical force. (whichever necromancer raised him, in this case the Lich King).

Forsaken die all the time, to act as a counter to your example with arrows specifically, in BTS Sylvanas had a bunch of forsaken killed, really killed, just by having archers on the walls shoot them with arrows.

You're wrong.

? what? the fall did exactly what is written. the body destroyed and the soul killed (because you know, she is a banshee) otherwise she would float like Lady Nightswood

Obliterated does not simply mean killed, it means wholly destroyed, as in it doesn't go anywhere, it just ceases to exist entirely.

[Powerogue]

Guys if you want a thread dedicated to arguing about what it takes to kill a zombie, make your own, that has nothing to do with the topic.

[matrix123mko]

@matrix123mko
Honestly, even all those years after the fact that I truly learnt about WoW, I'm still miffed that the first picture ever that i saw had led me to believe that, awesomely, the factions would be merged from the start and we'd only play on Kalimdor at first.



Imagine how things would be different if Blizzard had went that way...

Yes. The existence of factions is a bit unexpected.

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And somehow giving that power to a single person, who's a product of twisted magic, is hellbent on ending all life and playing My Little Lich King using her Val'kyr is better choice?

Apparently, that person was competent enough to stop a Legion invasion despite being attacked by the Alliance.

See, if WoW characters had any common sense, the Forsaken wouldn't even be in the Horde. The fact it was the Tauren who wanted them is an insult to injury, and their reasoning even more ridiculous.

It makes a bit more sense to be distrustful to undead indeed.

Sylvanas intentions were apparent since the begining of Cata, but somehow every character keeps forgetting that.

From what I remember, she didn't show at any point that she wants to fill the Maw with souls.

Her turning humans into undead should be a large red flag already. Doing what the Lich King did should be a no-no for the Horde, even if it was done to Alliance (for now), especially with how commited the Horde was to defeating the Lich King himself.

That's stupid. All she did was building greater army for the Horde. Necromancy has traditionally been a powerful tool of the Horde and should be used against Alliance dogs.

Yes, such a common sense. Making the enemy of the living a one of the two most powerful (politically) figures on the planet, and the others obeying it with no problem. "The spirits" which noone besides trolls can hear, and a dying man who's more likely to be having hallucinations than speaking sense.

Alliance listens to the Light. That is even dumber, as the Light cannot even be summoned to talk. One could ask why they follow a priest of unknown god.

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Still cant believe the psycho actually died in-game for 5 seconds. One of the things Cataclysm did right.

The worst element of Cataclysm.

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Sure, Grom helps up in Hellfire Citadel with Archimonde, but you've got to admit that's a bit underwhelming to make up for his warmongering across the face of Draenor, killing scores of Azerothian Vanguard, the Draenei of Shadowmoon Valley, and even his own people.

If he still has an army to fight, there is no reason to not advocate for peace.

[Aucald]

If he still has an army to fight, there is no reason to not advocate for peace.

Pretty sure precious little of the Iron Horde remained to fight. The bulk of them became the Fel Horde alongside AU Kilrogg, and were butchered when the PC raid storms Hellfire Citadel and kills Archimonde. The few remainders left the Iron Horde entirely (such as Solog Roark, who designed the Iron Fleet), and probably wouldn't be so keen on rejoining a defeated Grom. Basically put, the Iron Horde post-HFC was no real threat to Yrel and her Draenei forces at that time.

Not really in Yrel's nature (at that time) to do that, though. AU Exarch Yrel, the one we encounter in the Mag'har recruitment scenario, is a different story.

[Darth-Piekus]

Why are we still considering if a Forsaken can die when it's irrefutable in so many occasions in the game? Also Sylvannas did jack shit. Most of the work was done by the Neutral Factions in Legion not to mention if it wasn't for the Draenei Sylvannas would not be able to even go on Argus. All Sylvannas did was something that had nothing to do against the Legion. More like something for herself which would have turned Odyn and the Valarjar against us in a critical moment. That is not the topic though however.

[TickTickTick]

Apparently, that person was competent enough to stop a Legion invasion despite being attacked by the Alliance.

This is a weird statement. There's no reason to believe that any other character would have done a worse job, and Sylvanas has done next to nothing to help against the Legion (similar to any other leader really, on both Alliance and Horde side). The Class Orders, Dalaran and Illidan stopped the invasion.

From what I remember, she didn't show at any point that she wants to fill the Maw with souls.

I'm not talking about the Maw. I'm talking about her general hate for the living, wanting everyone to die and be turned. "What difference is there between you and the Lich King now, Sylvanas?" "Isn't it obvious, Warchief? I serve the Horde."

That's stupid. All she did was building greater army for the Horde. Necromancy has traditionally been a powerful tool of the Horde and should be used against Alliance dogs.

How is that stupid? The Horde did all they could to help defeat the Lich King. Saurfang himself lost his son and then saw him turned. As said by Garrosh himself, what she's doing is against the very nature. Any other leader would have locked her after witnessing it firsthand, but oh well... Garrosh lacked common sense in many departments.
The only difference between her and the Lich King was that she had boobs and her throne was underground and not in a frozen wasteland. Also I don't remember any necromancers in the Horde, at least not in the WoW's Horde.

Alliance listens to the Light. That is even dumber, as the Light cannot even be summoned to talk. One could ask why they follow a priest of unknown god.

Were there any decisions with importance on the level of appointing a new warchief, based only on "the light"? Again, can't recall.

[Darth-Piekus]

Keymil you forgot the Dranei. Without the Vindicaar how would they have gone to Argus?

[Sorrowseer]

Generally speaking its fixing a myriad of the situations that the herd caused, sigh.

[Combatbutler]

Keymil you forgot the Dranei. Without the Vindicaar how would they have gone to Argus?

The portal Illidan made, back in his novel

[Darth-Piekus]

The portal was just one part. The most important was to get there. How would they have gone there without a spaceship? Teleport would hardly work without able to see the ground target.

[Combatbutler]

The portal was just one part. The most important was to get there. How would they have gone there without a spaceship? Teleport would hardly work without able to see the ground target.

Illidan laid the groundwork for a functioning portal back in his novel, using every soul in Auchindoun as fuel, it just needed to be opened. The way to Argus was already there, the only reason we go there by spaceship is the rule of cool.

[Darth-Piekus]

That is if we could go to the Outlands since the portal has been changed to that Alternative Reality and even if we still had access to the Outlands how much time we might have lost moving to that portal. I have a feeling that if they had a way to use the Auchindun then they would have done it.

[Combatbutler]

That is if we could go to the Outlands since the portal has been changed to that Alternative Reality and even if we still had access to the Outlands how much time we might have lost moving to that portal. I have a feeling that if they had a way to use the Auchindun then they would have done it.

The connection to the alternate draenor is gone, which is why the horde had to jump to hoops to get access to it again, it would have made more sense then that spaceship, especially considering the legion pretty much overran the Draenei at the beginning of legion.

[Darth-Piekus]

Yes but can we say that the Outland Portal was open after that disruption from the Alternate Draenor? I don't think they could use the Auchindun.

[Combatbutler]

Yes but can we say that the Outland Portal was open after that disruption from the Alternate Draenor? I don't think they could use the Auchindun.

The dark Portal isn't the only one to Outland there is another one in Quel'thalas for example, using the one in Auchindoun was still very much possible, especially since the people of Outland could have laid the groundwork for the invasion, even accompanying the people of Azeroth.

[Darth-Piekus]

Still it is always the question of time. How much more time it would need to laid the groundwork and open a Space Bridge from Auchindun than what Illidan did with his Crystal and the ready spaceship.

[Combatbutler]

Still it is always the question of time. How much more time it would need to laid the groundwork and open a Space Bridge from Auchindun than what Illidan did with his Crystal and the ready spaceship.

Considering the whole point of what Illidan did in Outland was laying the groundwork for an invasion of Argus, I'd say it would have been just as fast and they would have been far more, after all the vindicar is not really big.

[Beerbill Society]

*The Alliance exterminates the orcs at the end of the 2nd war. Bam!
*The blood elves never join the Horde because it doesn't exist, and eventually come back to Alliance.
*Sylvanas leads a band of ragtag undead that poses no threat to the Alliance, and is later on scoured from Lordaeron, and Lordaeron is retaken by the Alliance.
*Tauren are dead. RIP.
*Trolls continue to live in various areas, just like before.

Kalimdor is never disturbed, and so the Night Elves control most of it.
Draenei join the Night Elves, as they never have any contact with the Alliance of the Eastern Kingdoms.

World ends cuz alliance alone can't stop the legion from destroying the world tree in the reign of chaos.