Arthas is almost nothing without Frostmourne

[Varodoc]

He taked his own heart out, if he returns he can only do so as an undead.

On-Topic:

Frostmourne was forged by the Burning Legion, if someone reforges Frostmourne again, the sword will most likely not have is previous powers.

I would still love to see Arthas back, he should still able to wield a similar power to other DK's, and he has the knowledge of Ner'Zull, there is a quest in Howling Fjord were he claims to be a Shaman. But i still doubt that if he ever returns, he will be the one to slay Sylvanna.

EDIT:
Also, didn't DK's got Frostmourne in Legion? If so, that means Frostmourne has already been reforged.

They'll give him his heart back after he's put an end to Sylvanas.

[Rathwell]

They'll give him his heart back after he's put an end to Sylvanas.

Arthas will do one good deed and redeem himself, and then he's taken before the Wiz-- Uh, the Arbiter, asking for just one thing: a heart. The Arbiter then explains that Arthas really had a heart all along!

[Varodoc]

Arthas will do one good deed and redeem himself, and then he's taken before the Wiz-- Uh, the Arbiter, asking for just one thing: a heart. The Arbiter then explains that Arthas really had a heart all along!

It's cringe but much better than if you replaced Arthas with Sylvanas, don't you think?

[Life-Binder]

if Arthas comes back - fights Sylvanas - and does no better than Bolvar

hoo boy

[Mehrunes]

People are giving too much credit to the weapon. Well not actually people. Just a vocal minority.Arthas's cunning helped did what he did. Frostmourne didn't conquer Dalaran, Quel Thalas and Lordaeron alone.

All of those were campaigns planned by Ner'zhul. And Quel'Thalas still required a traitor within the kingdom.

Also in comparison to Sylvanas he actually cared about his people. The Lordaeronians first and later he considered the Undead his people and he cared about them. It was actually this care that the Lich King turned against him.

Sylvanas also cared about her people when she was alive. JFC...

Well duh. It's all part of the cunning that I mentioned before. No villain acted alone. They pretty much have an army behind them to command. It's not like the Undead acted on their own without a commander.

Guys with all due respect. Put your mind to work before writing something. A Weapon cannot act alone without a Wielder. A Wielder alone is nothing without a weapon. A Commander alone is nothing without an army behind. All of these go together and all of these are equally responsible for the result. Instead of looking for bad excuses to bash a character just say that you don't like the character and be done with it.

Actually do what you preach to others about for once then. Because the one in command of the Scourge was, you know, the Lich King. Not that merely commanding an army constitutes cunning by any meaning of the world anyway.

You can think that if it makes you feel better. Stay salty

She was literally shown ripping wolves apart with her bare hands in War Crimes...

[Raisei]

Sylvanas also cared about her people when she was alive. JFC...

Yep, she showed that greatly when she likened her soldiers to arrows in her quiver. Ammunition, literally cannon fodder, to be used against the Undead threat and when she decided to not ambush Arthas because she feared her reputation would suffer for it ("There would be no tales sung of Sylvanas Windrunner using underhanded means").

I know a general has to be ruthless with the lifes of her soldiers, that is just how war works, so I am ready to let the first one go. But when she prioritized her reputation over the lifes of her soldiers and over victory (i.e. the succeful defense of Quel'talas) itself, we get a glimpse at her real self-serving character. Undeath did not change her in that regard.

Arthas has always treated his subordinates as friends and associated with people far below his rank. When Invincible died he suffered years for it and that was a horse. The Culling of Stratholme was only possible because he cared so much about his people that he would rather dirty his hands and kill some of them (that would have died anyway) then allowing all to die. That is his core character.
When Frostmourne took his soul, his perspective changed heavily, but his character remained. He repeatedly cursed Sylvanas and the Elves for "killing" his undead troops. He treated the undead Invicible lovingly and was outraged when Anatherion destroyed it's legs. Hell, he even treated Kel'thuzad as a trusted friend...

Compare that to how Sylvanas viewed the Forsaken in Edge of Night and you know who of them actually cared about their people and who is only interested in using them for their own goals.

[leorana]

You say that, but everyone says that Bolvar sucks based on him losing against sylvanas - without a frostmourne. Why is Bolvar judged as a character and deemed lame for losing to Sylvanas, when Arthas is considered badass not because of his own power, but frostmourne?

Bolvar was quite more powerfull compared to living arthas. He also used the helm powers to a larger degree than Arthas - yet still hasn't managed to land a single blow against sylvannus . People aren't mad bolvar lost, the way he lost is what ticks them off

[omeomorfismo]

Yep, she showed that greatly when she likened her soldiers to arrows in her quiver. Ammunition, literally cannon fodder, to be used against the Undead threat and when she decided to not ambush Arthas because she feared her reputation would suffer for it ("There would be no tales sung of Sylvanas Windrunner using underhanded means").

I know a general has to be ruthless with the lifes of her soldiers, that is just how war works, so I am ready to let the first one go. But when she prioritized her reputation over the lifes of her soldiers and over victory (i.e. the succeful defense of Quel'talas) itself, we get a glimpse at her real self-serving character. Undeath did not change her in that regard.

Arthas has always treated his subordinates as friends and associated with people far below his rank. When Invincible died he suffered years for it and that was a horse. The Culling of Stratholme was only possible because he cared so much about his people that he would rather dirty his hands and kill some of them (that would have died anyway) then allowing all to die. That is his core character.
When Frostmourne took his soul, his perspective changed heavily, but his character remained. He repeatedly cursed Sylvanas and the Elves for "killing" his undead troops. He treated the undead Invicible lovingly and was outraged when Anatherion destroyed it's legs. Hell, he even treated Kel'thuzad as a trusted friend...

Compare that to how Sylvanas viewed the Forsaken in Edge of Night and you know who of them actually cared about their people and who is only interested in using them for their own goals.

he even made bridges to pass the rivers with his troops, without caring about their fate. i mean, his strategies were basically suicide charges that only worked thanks the undeath (basically what garrosh wanted in gilneas) and continous necromancy...

[leorana]

Not like Illidan was before a skilled fighter / able to use demonic magic. It didnt shape him really


illidan is the whole package. tatoos, eyes, skull, weapons and skill

Yet he lost to a weakened , pre - helmed, version of arthas . Illidan HAD to take skull of guldan to achieve enough power

[zhimm1011]

Sylvannas is nothing without frostmourne bringing her back.. and shes nothing without her benefactor. without the powers of death the jailer had given her she would be dead long before meeting Bolvar, she is the undead embodiment of Ex Machina.

[Hammerfest]

Without Frostmourne, Arthas is... a paladin.

[zhimm1011]

Sylvannas is nothing without frostmourne bringing her back.. and shes nothing without her benefactor. without the powers of death the jailer had given her she would be dead long before meeting Bolvar, she is the undead embodiment of Ex Machina.

[leorana]

Sylvannas is nothing without frostmourne bringing her back.. and shes nothing without her benefactor. without the powers of death the jailer had given her she would be dead long before meeting Bolvar, she is the undead embodiment of Ex Machina.

She let garrosh bitch-slap go unpunished. And died to some godfrey guy...Not that omnipotent without a jailor on her back.

[Mehrunes]

Yep, she showed that greatly when she likened her soldiers to arrows in her quiver. Ammunition, literally cannon fodder, to be used against the Undead threat and when she decided to not ambush Arthas because she feared her reputation would suffer for it ("There would be no tales sung of Sylvanas Windrunner using underhanded means").

I know a general has to be ruthless with the lifes of her soldiers, that is just how war works, so I am ready to let the first one go. But when she prioritized her reputation over the lifes of her soldiers and over victory (i.e. the succeful defense of Quel'talas) itself, we get a glimpse at her real self-serving character. Undeath did not change her in that regard.

Arthas has always treated his subordinates as friends and associated with people far below his rank. When Invincible died he suffered years for it and that was a horse. The Culling of Stratholme was only possible because he cared so much about his people that he would rather dirty his hands and kill some of them (that would have died anyway) then allowing all to die. That is his core character.
When Frostmourne took his soul, his perspective changed heavily, but his character remained. He repeatedly cursed Sylvanas and the Elves for "killing" his undead troops. He treated the undead Invicible lovingly and was outraged when Anatherion destroyed it's legs. Hell, he even treated Kel'thuzad as a trusted friend...

Compare that to how Sylvanas viewed the Forsaken in Edge of Night and you know who of them actually cared about their people and who is only interested in using them for their own goals.

As usual you butcher that part of Rise of the Lich King to suit your fanfiction peddling. Here's the goddamn paragraph in full:

She glanced at Sheldaris and Vor’athil. They caught her gaze and nodded. They were ready. Sylvanas yearned to simply strike, to take the enemy unawares, but honor forbade it. There would be no tales sung of how Ranger-General Sylvanas Windrunner defended her homeland by underhanded means.

As can be quite clearly seen by anyone not interested in disingenuous agenda like you are, personally Sylvanas desired to take him out in an ambush but was prevented by code of conduct that you twisted into her just fearing for her reputation. Somehow when Saurfang did far more stupid things in the name of concept of honor (that unlike Sylvanas' was also drastically inconsistent to boot) to anyone constantly salty about Sylvanas existing that's the best thing ever. But now that it stands in the way of bemoaning Sylvanas it is to be utterly ignored.

What you also """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""accidentally"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" "" left out is that scene happened when Arthas just barely reached the borderlands of Quel'Thalas and stood at the Elf Gates, before any fighting actually happened and before Dar'Khan's treachery let him into Quel'Thalas. After that contrary to the BS you peddle here Sylvanas waged non-stop guerrilla warfare against him. Now, what does guerrilla warfare entail, I wonder?

Then there's the fact that Sylvanas' entire goal in the campaign once she realized the Scourge could not have been stopped (which wouldn't change a bit even if she sniped Arthas at the border as they were driven by the Lich King's will) was to delay them as long as possible to buy Silvermoon the time to prepare its defenses to at least give them a shot at survival, for which she ultimately sacrificed herself. But please, do continue your false nonsense about how she didn't care about them.

Yet he lost to a weakened , pre - helmed, version of arthas . Illidan HAD to take skull of guldan to achieve enough power

Arthas wasn't weakened. The Lich King reinvigorated him prior to their fight and he won only thanks to a lucky strike and Illidan being too cocky. Prior to that Illidan had the upper hand throughout the entire fight.

Sylvannas is nothing without frostmourne bringing her back.. and shes nothing without her benefactor. without the powers of death the jailer had given her she would be dead long before meeting Bolvar, she is the undead embodiment of Ex Machina.

Sylvanas was already powerful enough to make Arthas uneasy moments after her resurrection.

[Ardenaso]

She was literally shown ripping wolves apart with her bare hands in War Crimes...

haven't we made a nice resolution that War Crimes is non-canon because we don't like it?

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he even made bridges to pass the rivers with his troops, without caring about their fate. i mean, his strategies were basically suicide charges that only worked thanks the undeath (basically what garrosh wanted in gilneas) and continous necromancy...

they're dead and they don't have free will because... they're dead

Edit: but anyway, since Arthas is such a kind-hearted Death Knight, from The Flight From Lordaeron:

I would not leave my subjects to be slaughtered by this rabble.

that is, before the retcons from post-WC3 media

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Arthas power with Frostmourne: ultra high
Arthas power w/o Frostmourne: very high

[Mehrunes]

haven't we made a nice resolution that War Crimes is non-canon because we don't like it?

Why wouldn't it be canon? It may be garbage canon, but given what followed after it, it's not even that out of place anymore.

[Jar-Mon]

I'd say it's less than nothing, considering the way the ending of Wrath basically claimed Arthas, for all his machinations, scheming and plotting, for all his supposed strength and kills and efforts, was apparently unknowingly holding the Scourge BACK from being a worse threat - basically saying he was worse for the Scourge than without him! >_<

[trololo681]

So as we were talking about the Lich King and the nature of this expansion set, imagine the Lich King has done something despicable to both the Alliance and the Horde. The powers-that-be decided, "Alright we're sending troops. Let's rally some expeditions. We're going to go take it to him. We know he's up there. He's mocking us. Let's go get him." The basic psychology is imagine that he's planned this all along. He's got the fishing pole, "reel 'em in." This is what he's wanted all along. Because relative to Arthas' experience, he was the weapon of his greatest enemy. The harder he tried to fight the good fight and save his people, the quicker he walked right into the bad guy's plan and the quicker he became, ultimately, the weapon of the bad guy. It was Arthas that went home and killed his dad and Scourged out his kingdom. He was the hammer that dropped. It wasn't ultimately the Scourge—ultimately, it wasn't the armies of the dead that made it happen, it was the big hero that made it happen. So in the same way... So to kinda wrap it up, the idea is that Arthas may in fact have precipitated this whole thing. Because he thinks that using you guys against your own cities is actually pretty funny. He can probably mobilize an army of the dead anytime he wants. All he's gotta do is unleash the Plague on Orgrimmar, Teldrassil. You can argue that he can do that whenever. But I think that he gets a big, big kick out of you guys doing what he did. So, that sounds really compelling and is largely the psychology we're trying to base a lot of our questlines on. (BlizzCon2007)

[Tuor]

Without Frostmourne, Arthas is... a paladin.

Except, he doesn't has a heart, if he returns, he will be an undead, and undead, can't wield the light.

If he returns, there are 2 chances, or he will continue to be a DK, or he will use the knowledge of Ner'Zull and become a shaman.

[zhimm1011]

Sylvanas was already powerful enough to make Arthas uneasy moments after her resurrection.

yes he was really afraid of the banshee he one shotted and then raised as his slave. only reason she had any free will was because of Illidan and what he did to the frozen throne.

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Except, he doesn't has a heart, if he returns, he will be an undead, and undead, can't wield the light.

If he returns, there are 2 chances, or he will continue to be a DK, or he will use the knowledge of Ner'Zull and become a shaman.

you obviously forgot one of the four horsemen Sir Zeliek of naxx. he was a Dk and so faithful to the light he could still wield it.