The WHO is responsible for the pandemic's severity

[Draco-Onis]

All they really needed to do was put out guidelines that were consistent with learnings from SARS-CoV1 instead of insisting that people not wear masks or that it may not able to be transmitted through the air. They failed to do this and continue to fail to do this. Even now their policy is that people shouldn't be wearing masks unless they have symptoms, which is absolutely insane given how much data on presymptomatic and asymptomatic infections has come out.

And the US policy from Donald Trump is that people don't need to wear mask and everything needs to get back to normal. This is from the US who had information that this was going to be a pandemic all the way back to December but showered Xi and China with praise for transparency and hard work for months.

[Demolitia]

All they really needed to do was put out guidelines that were consistent with learnings from SARS-CoV1 instead of insisting that people not wear masks or that it may not able to be transmitted through the air. They failed to do this and continue to fail to do this. Even now their policy is that people shouldn't be wearing masks unless they have symptoms, which is absolutely insane given how much data on presymptomatic and asymptomatic infections has come out.

Masks are one thing that helps, combined with social distancing. What lacked, and still is lacking in most countries, is testing.
Also there was a shortage of masks pretty much everwhere for at least a month or more in some places. The surgical masks as i can in pharmacy here specifically say on the box "for use in normal medical conditions without risk of fluid or spray". So while everbody agrees it might be better to wear some sort of mouth cover than nothing at all, it sure as hell is not and shouldn't be your strategy and will not be your way out of the pandemic. Extensive testing is crucial.

[Draco-Onis]

Edit : sorry i guess we agree. What annoys me most with that shitty scapegoating, and worries me, is that every country, having saved the face, kinda, will do absolutely nothing to prepare for the next one. Or come to the brlliant conclusion that we should eradicate bats. Or pangolins.

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Wuhan is a large city, with foreign doctors and international hospitals. Surely they are somehow in the loop?

I am not expert in the area but the way I understand it is you would need the expertise in this kind of disease to notice the difference to sound the alarm. Even now months into this we are finding COVID-19 symptoms we didn't know about. The majority of doctors probably thought this was another flu outbreak, there's evidence it was in the US Dec-Jan so it was probably running wild in China without anyone notice for months too.

[Demolitia]

I am not expert in the area but the way I understand it is you would need the expertise in this kind of disease to notice the difference to sound the alarm. Even now months into this we are finding COVID-19 symptoms we didn't know about. The majority of doctors probably thought this was another flu outbreak, there's evidence it was in the US Dec-Jan so it was probably running wild in China without anyone notice for months too.

You might be right. I still find it weird any (or hell, all of yhem) western government just took china's word. And when it became apparent it was serious, still did nothing. For weeks.

[prwraith]

Since when are conspiracy theorists allowed here

[Draco-Onis]

You might be right. I still find it weird any (or hell, all of yhem) western government just took china's word. And when it became apparent it was serious, still did nothing. For weeks.

I don't think they did, US intelligence sounded the alarm for months so everyone knew it's just politically Trump wanted a deal and other nations didn't want to anger China. I think this speaks to the amount of influence they now have in the world.

[Forogil]

I am not expert in the area but the way I understand it is you would need the expertise in this kind of disease to notice the difference to sound the alarm. Even now months into this we are finding COVID-19 symptoms we didn't know about. The majority of doctors probably thought this was another flu outbreak, there's evidence it was in the US Dec-Jan so it was probably running wild in China without anyone notice for months too.

Not really.

I don't know about the "evidence" that it was in the US earlier, for the French case we have evidence:
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-December.aspx
The WHO wants to have more information about that and similar cases.

But we know that all covid-19 samples we have seen are consistent with a common ancestor in late November/early December (although some indicate dates as early as October); so it was likely not running wild in China for months.

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So while everbody agrees it might be better to wear some sort of mouth cover than nothing at all, it sure as hell is not and shouldn't be your strategy and will not be your way out of the pandemic.

Actually everyone does not even agree with the first part, especially regarding non-medical masks.

Even if the masks provide some reduction in the amount of virus you spread there are also problems: people might ignore other advice since they are wearing a mask, and many touch the mask repeatedly especially if they want to eat/talk; thus contaminating the hands. https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1422

Basically we don't know if masks for the general population is a good idea or not.

Extensive testing is crucial.

That is true.

[Demolitia]

Not really.

I don't know about the "evidence" that it was in the US earlier, for the French case we have evidence:
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-December.aspx
The WHO wants to have more information about that and similar cases.

But we know that all covid-19 samples we have seen are consistent with a common ancestor in late November/early December (although some indicate dates as early as October); so it was likely not running wild in China for months.

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Actually everyone does not even agree with the first part, especially regarding non-medical masks.

Even if the masks provide some reduction in the amount of virus you spread there are also problems: people might ignore other advice since they are wearing a mask, and many touch the mask repeatedly especially if they want to eat/talk; thus contaminating the hands. https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1422

Basically we don't know if masks for the general population is a good idea or not.


That is true.

For masks we don't know for sure if they are useful, but until there is evidence that they are harmful then it's worth a try. That's in combination with proper hygiene, washing hands or disinfecting them at the very least. And i know when there is a shortage it's hard to find them in the first place, or materials to make them (good luck finding elastics here), so it's by no means perfect. Still worth a shot.

But overall you make a good point. The masks most people have access too are not rated to filter this virus, and only those are demonstrably useful, when used properly and changed regularly. Which is probably one of the reasons the WHO is still not recommending them.

[Vorkreist]

You can't ask china to close wet markets, that would require you first fix the socioeconomic issues. China is not unique when it comes to wet markets, they're all over the world and very common

You are right you really can't ask China not to spew pandemic threats. You CCP apologists went so deep you forgot how absurd you sound.

[JohnBrown1917]

You are right you really can't ask China not to spew pandemic threats. You CCP apologists went so deep you forgot how absurd you sound.

Its CCP apologia to point out wet markets exist in almost any country and are very common outside rich western nations?
You're really reaching.

[Vorkreist]

Its CCP apologia to point out wet markets exist in almost any country and are very common outside rich western nations?
You're really reaching.

So sars and sars-cov-2 came from what country? Ugandan wet markets ?

[Felya]

So sars and sars-cov-2 came from what country? Ugandan wet markets ?

What about MERS-Cov, Zika or Ebola?

[Themius]

So sars and sars-cov-2 came from what country? Ugandan wet markets ?

Ebola came out of wet markets there... are you thinking?

[Felya]

Ebola came out of wet markets there... are you thinking?

I don’t think people recognize the effort it took to keep Zika from blowing up, which might be the problem with current events. WHO and CDC should have made a far bigger deal about it... I understand not scaring people, but if you don’t... you get today.

[Vorkreist]

Ebola came out of wet markets there... are you thinking?

The good ol whatabout something that doesn't have the same reach as coronaviruses. Try to deflect harder or winnie the pooh gets upset.

[Felya]

The good ol whatabout something that doesn't have the same reach as coronaviruses. Try to deflect harder or winnie the pooh gets upset.

You sarcastically asked ‘what about Ugandan wet markets’... pointing to Ebola is responding to that question.

[JohnBrown1917]

So sars and sars-cov-2 came from what country? Ugandan wet markets ?

Are you making a game out of blatantly ignoring my points? Why should China be the only country in the world that should ban wet markets. Wherever your from also has wet markets.

[Hammerfest]

Or was it @Hammerfest who had it in November, but cured him self through starving?

It was, but I was in a fasted state... not "starving."

[Demolitia]

Are you making a game out of blatantly ignoring my points? Why should China be the only country in the world that should ban wet markets. Wherever your from also has wet markets.

Because a country that has a massive population and massive urban centers connected to the rest of the world is much more concerning than Uganda? Wuhan alone is 1/4 of Uganda's population in a much smaller area. And Wuhan has a very central and well connected situation with the rest of China. Is doesnt remotely compare to a rural wet market.