Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Trassk]

You say nothing will change. So far it went from police won't be charged to the main guy being arrested.

Just because YOU don't want to listen doesn't mean others won't.

So what are we listening to, the fire crackers going off, the sound of buildings collapsing after the fires finish engulfing them?

If violence is the only thing you think of as the answer to police brutality, then you just don't have an answer yourself, you just add fuel to the fire.

[PACOX]

clearly you've never been to england around pubs on a friday night, where the majority are white punters coming out bladdered like chimps at a zoo, trust me, skin color matters for shit in the face of how they act. People are people, it doesn't matter their skin color, only their behavior. But instead of thinking how I'm referring to the violent behavior of these protesters, who are a mix of different people, you decided to believe they are all black people protesting. Sorry buddy, you don't get to call someone else out as racist when the context goes against it.

We're talking about an American issue. Why would I care about British slang when discussing this issue? Like you said, context matters.

If you didn't not mean what you are accused of then you say 'my bad. Over here the term does not come with the baggage" whatever in your own words. Problem solved.
Doubling down and then claiming ignorance is what gets called a racist.

I am willing to let it go due to cultural differences you're willing say what you said might have come off as something it wasn't.

Otherwise you knew exactly what kind of reaction you were going to get when you chose to use the word 'ape'.

[Orange Joe]

So what are we listening to, the fire crackers going off, the sound of buildings collapsing after the fires finish engulfing them?

If violence is the only thing you think of as the answer to police brutality, then you just don't have an answer yourself, you just add fuel to the fire.

They are listening to people say "if you don't fix this, we are going to break your shit" Sadly it took breaking some shit for people to even start listening. Maybe next time it won't. But as you show people don't want to listen until it's them that is uncomfortable.


And no violence isn't the only answer. It's normally the last answer when people won't listen to the peaceful stuff.

[Underverse]

Black people are still killed by police at a disportional rate.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

Black people make up 12% of the population

So far in 2020 41 white people were killed to 31 black Does that seem right to you for a people that make up only 12% of population.

You need to control for number of police interactions due to economic and cultural disparities. It's not enough to look at population.

FBI statistics show that 59% of violent crime perpetrators are white and 38% are black. That's hugely disproportionate compared to population distribution. Illegal possession of weapons is even more skewed at 54% white and 44% black. For murder, it's somehow worse: 44% white and 53% black. That's an insane level of overrepresentation. So would it be a surprise for black people to be overrepresented in police killings? Not in the slightest.

In fact what we find, when controlling for police interactions, whether the subject resisted arrest, etc, is that white people are more likely to be killed by police than black people are (though not statistically significant). This study was authored by a Harvard professor who happens to be black.

Citations:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fr...es_figures.pdf

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Yeah cause there has never been a history of black people being dis-proportionally punished compared to white people either.....

It's pretty hard to disproportionately charge for murder on such a systematic scale that you significantly change the statistics. It happens of course, but I don't think there's evidence to suggest that the FBI's statistics do not reflect some modicum of reality.

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They are listening to people say "if you don't fix this, we are going to break your shit" Sadly it took breaking some shit for people to even start listening. Maybe next time it won't. But as you show people don't want to listen until it's them that is uncomfortable.


And no violence isn't the only answer. It's normally the last answer when people won't listen to the peaceful stuff.

Fix what?

The problem that people want to be fixed doesn't exist according to statistical evidence. The problem of police brutality does in some small sense, but it's not systemically targeted.

[Laughingjack]

You need to control for number of police interactions due to economic and cultural disparities. It's not enough to look at population.

FBI statistics show that 59% of violent crime perpetrators are white and 38% are black. That's hugely disproportionate compared to population distribution. Illegal possession of weapons is even more skewed at 54% white and 44% black. For murder, it's somehow worse: 44% white and 53% black. That's an insane level of overrepresentation. So would it be a surprise for black people to be overrepresented in police killings? Not in the slightest.

In fact what we find, when controlling for police interactions, whether the subject resisted arrest, etc, is that white people are more likely to be killed by police than black people are (though not statistically significant). This study was authored by a Harvard professor who happens to be black.

Citations:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fr...es_figures.pdf

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It's pretty hard to disproportionately charge for murder on such a systematic scale that you significantly change the statistics. It happens of course, but I don't think there's evidence to suggest that the FBI's statistics do not reflect some modicum of reality.

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Fix what?

The problem that people want to be fixed doesn't exist according to statistical evidence. The problem of police brutality does in some small sense, but it's not systemically targeted.

You underestimate the power of virtue signaling and outrage. You facts have no power here!

[Trassk]

We're talking about an American issue. Why would I care about British slang when discussing this issue? Like you said, context matters.

If you didn't not mean what you are accused of then you say 'my bad. Over here the term does not come with the baggage" whatever in your own words. Problem solved.
Doubling down and then claiming ignorance is what gets called a racist.

I am willing to let it go due to cultural differences you're willing say what you said might have come off as something it wasn't.

Otherwise you knew exactly what kind of reaction you were going to get when you chose to use the word 'ape'.

context is everything. I didn't mean in any way to throw out an insult at people based on race. My context was aimed at the violent protesters and their violent behaviors. For the record I would use the same context in describing the police who gun down or kill innocent people like the victim that started all this, I'd call police who do that as much animals too.

[Orange Joe]

It's pretty hard to disproportionately charge for murder on such a systematic scale that you significantly change the statistics. It happens of course, but I don't think there's evidence to suggest that the FBI's statistics do not reflect some modicum of reality

You don't think black people get charged for crimes they don't commit.

https://research.msu.edu/innocent-af...lly-convicted/

Central park 5 anyone?

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/78294...onerated-at-la
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/19/n...oneration.html

[Underverse]

You don't think black people get charged for crimes they don't commit.

Central 5 anyone?

Oh they certainly do. It happens to white people too. And you know, in the quote that you took from my post, I said that it happens. So I'm not sure what your point is. The burden is on you to provide a shred of evidence suggesting that it's such a systematic problem that it changes the statistical reality that I have put forward.

[Laughingjack]

You don't think black people get charged for crimes they don't commit.

Central 5 anyone?

I mean everyone does... they don't have some kind of monopoly on that.

[Themius]

As soon as the cops do that, the leftist media calls the cops racist.

I mean it seems you care more about people calling cops or the justice system racist, than the racism within the system itself. Bravo.

[Orange Joe]

I mean everyone does... they don't have some kind of monopoly on that.

Actually the do in America.

https://research.msu.edu/innocent-af...lly-convicted/

[Egomaniac]

So what are we listening to, the fire crackers going off, the sound of buildings collapsing after the fires finish engulfing them?

If violence is the only thing you think of as the answer to police brutality, then you just don't have an answer yourself, you just add fuel to the fire.

Violence isn't the only answer and it wasn't the first answer tried.

You might remember hearing about a man named Kaepernick a few years back. He tried a peaceful protest against Police brutality. Got himself fired. Got called a Son of a Bitch by the President of the United States.

[Themius]

Just a little tidbit.

police unions affirm to police they can do whatever the fuck they want

https://thecrimereport.org/2019/07/2...a-union-study/

Findings in a study by three University Chicago researchers implied that violent officer misconduct complaints among sheriff’s offices (SOs) in Florida increased by 40 percent after collective bargaining rights.

The study tabulated violent incidents of misbehavior recorded in state databases between 1996 and 2003—when SOs were given the right to unionize under a Florida Supreme Court decision in Coastal Florida Police Benevolent Association v. Williams —and the period following the ruling, to 2015.

“[Our findings] show that the conferral of collective bargaining rights on officers at SOs led to an increase in violent incidents, relative to a control group of [police departments] that were unaffected by Williams,” said the study.

Also it is interesting how states have special officer bill of rights that allow officers to say... view a tape of them shooting someone before the public or anyone else can and then destroy it, or perhaps fabricate a story.

[Laughingjack]

Actually the do in America.

https://research.msu.edu/innocent-af...lly-convicted/

Did... did you read that before posting it? I want you to have an opportunity before I go on because it admits to making up numbers in it since its topic cant be proven.

[rrayy]

Violence isn't the only answer and it wasn't the first answer tried.

You might remember hearing about a man named Kaepernick a few years back. He tried a peaceful protest against Police brutality. Got himself fired. Got called a Son of a Bitch by the President of the United States.

He wasn't fired. His contract expired. Big difference.

[Themius]

Oh they certainly do. It happens to white people too. And you know, in the quote that you took from my post, I said that it happens. So I'm not sure what your point is. The burden is on you to provide a shred of evidence suggesting that it's such a systematic problem that it changes the statistical reality that I have put forward.

It happens far more likely to black and latinos... and due to an unfair legal system, many people who are innocent are bullied to plead guilty. Studies done by our government have found between 10%-20% of people plead and then later are shown to have been innocent.

[Orange Joe]

Did... did you read that before posting it? I want you to have an opportunity before I go on because it admits to making up numbers in it since its topic cant be proven.

I did. Have at it. Don't forget to link your data.

Since 1989, more than 1,800 defendants have been cleared in “group exonerations” that followed 15 large-scale police scandals in which officers systematically framed innocent defendants. The overwhelming majority were African-American defendants framed for drug crimes that never occurred.

[Egomaniac]

He wasn't fired. His contract expired. Big difference.

Yeah ok. Focus on that part of what I said. Clearly it's the most important part...

Man peacefully protests against Police Brutality...and he gets called "Traitor", "Son of a Bitch", "Disrespectful, "Un-American"...etc.

[Laughingjack]

I did. Have at it. Don't forget to link your data.

I am not going to debate a paper that admits to guessing at numbers.

[Themius]

I am not going to debate a paper that admits to guessing at numbers.

What about the government you think the government is also wrong?