Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Mayhem]

Perhaps because they recognize the very simple fact that rioters victimizing random innocent people isn't going to help anyone or change anything.

Crazy concept.

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status...08354821206016

Yeup, but this will, right? RIGHT?

[Shadowferal]

Could you compare the acceptable number according to Congress, with one that you find acceptable?

Apologies.
I'm on a friend's cellphone and doing searches are frustrating. I just want to throw this thing against the wall.

But the interview with police chief Ed Flynn may suffice; In 2012, there were nearly 12.2 million arrests and only 410 "uses of deadly force" by police in the United States.

It's an extraordinarily rare event. But the fact is, (in) 2012, there were 12,197,000 arrests in the United States, OK? And there were 410 uses of deadly force. Now that is, I think, three-thousands of a percent. So, it’s still an extraordinarily rare event."

We rate his statement Mostly True.

[I Push Buttons]

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status...08354821206016

Yeup, but this will, right? RIGHT?

'This will?', what?

Has someone claimed that police are fighting for social change by shoving some old guy to the ground? What the hell are you even talking about?

[Mayhem]

'This will?', what?

Has someone claimed that police are fighting for social change by shoving some old guy to the ground? What the hell are you even talking about?

Help or change anything.

[Keosen]

Just imagine if we were watching these images from Venezuela or Cuba or wherever.
Huge military vehicles and doped cops equipped like terminators ready to murder on-sight while roaming the streets and terrorizing citizens, journalists being arrested and people get shot by rubber bullets in the eyes.

USA would invade them the next day to deliver freedom.

[Shadowferal]

Just imagine if we were watching these images from Venezuela or Cuba or wherever.
Huge military vehicles and doped cops equipped like terminators ready to murder on-sight while roaming the streets and terrorizing citizens, journalists being arrested and people get shot by rubber bullets in the eyes.

USA would invade them the next day to deliver freedom.

Yeah...like in certain African nations, like the Sudan.

[Kumorii]

It's been said multiple times, it hasn't changed anything...the fact remains talking about rioting doesn't really mean much...

It only causes issues to "greater cause" as people care more about that than the issue that set it off and people across the nation clutch their pearls that people are rioting, not at what caused the riot. I don't agree with riots, things can get violent, people may be hurt and lose their business.

Okay... but what does that actually mean to talk about it? There isn't much more to say about rioting other than FBI warns about agent provocateurs and often these get incited by a few people and people then become rioters but people ignore the people cleaning up or protecting places.

It is a small issue, a very small issue compared to the larger issue that's been going on for several generations.

The root cause of the riots isn't misguided violence by people...

It's clear you don't read or understand. Even worse it could that you just refuse to. It's heavily shown by that bolded line.
I never claimed misguided violence were the root cause. Root cause have always referred to the injustice from systemic racism, I haven't even denied that and in fact reinforced your point on it, because it's true. Yet you somehow try to twist that into something it's not in my text. It's not much different from when you try to inject your ideas of someones character based on nothing really.

You also seem to ignore the fact that talking about misguided violence have about as much impact on change of misguided violence as your talk about the root cause will have on making an impact on the root cause. I explained that in the post which wasn't addressed except "it doesn't change much" but no reasoning behind as of why that is the case.

There isn't much more to say about rioting other than FBI warns about agent provocateurs and often these get incited by a few people and people then become rioters but people ignore the people cleaning up or protecting places.

Yes, media is awful isn't it. Media thrives on negativity regardless of gender, race you name it. It's absolutely a problem ,but why do you bring that up?

Now you are trying to bring up another issue which isn't about the root cause. It has nothing to do with system racial injustice in government branches.
Is it ok for you to do so? It's a drop in the bucket to me compared to the racial injustice that caused the riots. Then again, it's very easy to acknowledge it's a problem and if you have nothing more to say on it or just don't want to talk about it at this moment, then I will just leave it at that. See how simple that was for me? 2 sentences and nothing of that was me shutting you down or trying to tell you where your priorities are. In fact I still think you value racial injustice higher than that, correct me if I'm wrong. You are still able to acknowledge it's an issue and it's definitely worth noting even if it's a talk for another time.

But yeah, I've been ranting for far too long. More discussions about problems, small or big, is good. Shutting down discussions is bad regardless of how uncomfortable they might be to you. Even if I might sound harsh I will just leave it at that and hope you have a good day for the rest of it.

[Mayhem]

Apologies.
I'm on a friend's cellphone and doing searches are frustrating. I just want to throw this thing against the wall.

But the interview with police chief Ed Flynn may suffice; In 2012, there were nearly 12.2 million arrests and only 410 "uses of deadly force" by police in the United States.

It's an extraordinarily rare event. But the fact is, (in) 2012, there were 12,197,000 arrests in the United States, OK? And there were 410 uses of deadly force. Now that is, I think, three-thousands of a percent. So, it’s still an extraordinarily rare event."

We rate his statement Mostly True.

I do wonder where they have that number from. As far as I am aware, the reporting for use of force is voluntary and I can't find statistics on use of deadly force at all.

[Shadowferal]

I do wonder where they have that number from. As far as I am aware, the reporting for use of force is voluntary and I can't find statistics on use of deadly force at all.

Well its not like politifact hides their sources.
Or perhaps you just want to ignore them since the facts don't fit your narrative?

[rrayy]

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status...08354821206016

Yeup, but this will, right? RIGHT?

OF course what you ignore because it doesn't fit your anti-police agenda is that immediately after he went down they rushed to help the man back up and protected him. That means they immediately realized they went too far. But why let that get in the way of your anti-police crusade?

[I Push Buttons]

Help or change anything.

Nope, but I don't see anyone claiming that it will...

On the other hand, half the idiots in this thread seem to think rioters victimizing random people and destroying their property is going to somehow magically transform the United States into an egalitarian utopia...

[Mayhem]

Well its not like politifact hides their sources.
Or perhaps you just want to ignore them since the facts don't fit your narrative?

Uhm. Ok, this is going to be awkward for you but anyway. There are no sources for use of deadly force linked in that article. In fact, if you follow the links you come to this part:

Thanks to the good work by the team at fivethirtyeight.com, we know that there is no precise accounting of how many people the police kill.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[rrayy]

Life as in the act of living you see we are talking about a person who was suffocated to death and outrage and burning properties.

When you lose your life you do not exist in case you are confused

He was NOT suffocated to death. He died of cardiac arrest. Stop lying.

[Zaktar]

OF course what you ignore because it doesn't fit your anti-police agenda is that immediately after he went down they rushed to help the man back up and protected him. That means they immediately realized they went too far. But why let that get in the way of your anti-police crusade?

That they showed a modicum of afterthought does nothing to excuse their choice to shove an elderly man around with a riot shield. They weren't so kind to many of the other people they've brutalized in the past 24 hours. That reporter who may have lost an eye, definitely lost her vision in that eye, had to be rescued by protestors, no one helped her up. Why are the police shooting reporters?

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He was NOT suffocated to death. He died of cardiac arrest. Stop lying.

Let's see what an independent autopsy reveals.

[Mayhem]

OF course what you ignore because it doesn't fit your anti-police agenda is that immediately after he went down they rushed to help the man back up and protected him. That means they immediately realized they went too far. But why let that get in the way of your anti-police crusade?

Seriously? The cop that pushed the man to the ground did come to help after another came first, so initially that one thought he was in the right and only one thought this went too far.

But I got it, it's totes ok to push old people to the ground if you help them up afterward. Let's just hope they don't break their necks or are severely hurt. Keep excusing police brutality.

Also, I do like your spin on this, they rushed to help and protect him, yeah, rushed to help after pushing him and protect him from themselves.

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Nope, but I don't see anyone claiming that it will...

On the other hand, half the idiots in this thread seem to think rioters victimizing random people and destroying their property is going to somehow magically transform the United States into an egalitarian utopia...

I am not sure if you think spreading misinformation or exaggerating the posts of people in this thread helps your case but keep excusing police brutality because apparently civilians are held to a higher standard than law-enforcement.

[rrayy]

That they showed a modicum of afterthought does nothing to excuse their choice to shove an elderly man around with a riot shield. They weren't so kind to many of the other people they've brutalized in the past 24 hours. That reporter who may have lost an eye, definitely lost her vision in that eye, had to be rescued by protestors, no one helped her up. Why are the police shooting reporters?

- - - Updated - - -



Let's see what an independent autopsy reveals.

You aren't going to find anything different. Strangulation and asphyxia are very easy to spot. Also, this "independant autposy result" you are talking about will be commissioned by the family. That will be about as credible as the ME is. But of course you will immediately believe the one that comes from the family as 100% fact if it tells you what you want the cause of death to be despite the fact they have more motive to lie(civil suit and the pay day that comes with it) than the ME who is not gaining any money and would be riskiing his entire career.. We know this works.

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Seriously? The cop that pushed the man to the ground did come to help after another came first, so initially that one thought he was in the right and only one thought this went too far.

But I got it, it's totes ok to push old people to the ground if you help them up afterward. Let's just hope they don't break their necks or are severely hurt. Keep excusing police brutality.

Also, I do like your spin on this, they rushed to help and protect him, yeah, rushed to help after pushing him and protect him from themselves.

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I am not sure if you think spreading misinformation or exaggerating the posts of people in this thread helps your case but keep excusing police brutality because apparently civilians are held to a higher standard than law-enforcement.

NOOBDY is excusing police brutality. You, on the other hand, continue to cheer on those who are destoying property and ruining innocents lives and even cops getting hurt. Your hypocrisy is deafening.

[JohnBrown1917]

https://twitter.com/breezymusicnyc/s...93035752542215

Welcome to the American police state.

[Levelfive]

That they showed a modicum of afterthought does nothing to excuse their choice to shove an elderly man around with a riot shield. They weren't so kind to many of the other people they've brutalized in the past 24 hours. That reporter who may have lost an eye, definitely lost her vision in that eye, had to be rescued by protestors, no one helped her up. Why are the police shooting reporters?

- - - Updated - - -



Let's see what an independent autopsy reveals.

I mean, is the argument here really that his heart wasn't strong enough to withstand 9 minutes of being choked by a grown man's body weight? Is the problem with gunshot victims that they don't have enough blood to overcome its loss?

[Zaktar]

You aren't going to find anything different. Strangulation and asphyxia are very easy to spot. Also, this "independant autposy result" you are talking about will be commissioned by the family. That will be about as credible as the ME is. But of course you will immediately believe the one that comes from the family as 100% fact if it tells you what you want the cause of death to be despite the fact they have more motive to lie(civil suit and the pay day that comes with it) than the ME who is not gaining any money and would be riskiing his entire career.. We know this works.

Uh-huh, the ME surely never gets pressured to find a particular result. Your accusation that I'll believe that which supports my prejudgment smells like projection. As I said, we'll see what a second opinion yields, I couldn't tell you what the result will be. I believe what I saw, and if he happened to die from cardiac arrest, it changes nothing about the situation.

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I mean, is the argument here really that his heart wasn't strong enough to withstand 9 minutes of being choked by a grown man's body weight? Is the problem with gunshot victims that they don't have enough blood to overcome its loss?

Good point.

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NOOBDY is excusing police brutality. You, on the other hand, continue to cheer on those who are destoying property and ruining innocents lives and even cops getting hurt. Your hypocrisy is deafening.

OF course what you ignore because it doesn't fit your anti-police agenda is that immediately after he went down they rushed to help the man back up and protected him. That means they immediately realized they went too far. But why let that get in the way of your anti-police crusade?

Sure looks like someone excusing police brutality.

[Tabrotar]

The so called "protestors" which are using violence should justbe shoot on the spot to make a clear statement.
[Infraction]