Reveal speculation

[crakerjack]

Two big problems I see here. Contradicting thoughts that letting players see all content inside a single game would divide players yet advocating for separate expansion servers as if that wouldn’t be worse in dividing players.

Second is encouraging private servers and playing on them...

Players on different versions of the same game is what will make them quit.

I'm not encouraging anything. We're talking about retail, not classic or private servers. The only reason I mentioned those is that those are the available options for people who want to do legacy content that's scaled properly. Can you play with people on classic/private servers from retail? I know it's a redundant question, but that's because we're talking about retail and not those. You can argue about splitting the playerbase across various version of WoW, but what I'm talking about is splitting up the RETAIL community. If you make every dungeon/raid relevant at max level through some scaling system, you go from having a pool of 10-12~ dungeons and 1 raid at the start of an expansion, to 100+ dungeon/raids right off the bat. In this case, more isn't better, especially recycled content that most of the community has already seen.

By having everyone on the same playing field and making the current expansions content relevant, it means everyone learns together about the new dungeons/raids. Everyone begins to learn the mechanics and how certain mechanics work. It's new for everyone and we'll all have to work together to figure out the solution. Old content doesn't require any thinking, it just requires someone who knows the fight to explain it to the few who don't. There's no thinking or puzzle solving, it's just taking a swim through nostalgia. That's not the main issue though, the main issue is splitting up the community. If you look at raid finder for pugs, most of the raids you'll see are for the current raid and there'll typically be a few for older raids in the same expansion. If we go from having a pool of 4 raids to 30+ raids, don't you think that would saturate the raid finder? Now if someone wants to find a raid for the current raid, there might be less groups to join, therefore leading to a lower chance of getting into a raid because we now have a few naxx, ulduar, ICC, Firelands, AQ40, Throne of Thunder, and HFC raids all going on at the same time. I doubt that'd be the case when a brand new raid comes out, but 4-5 months down the road? The playerbase begins splitting and people are raiding older raids rather than the latest raid that came out. There's no relevancy to do it since gear of equal value is dropping from older raids.

The whole concept sounds good on initial thought and it's something I think blizz might do if the game is still around in 10 more years, but for the sake of maintaining relevancy of an expansion, resurrecting legacy content and rescaling it is a bad move.

[Makabreska]

Big spriest fix ples

[Lolites]

How do you think that will turn out to me? I will be utterly useless in 1 of these activities CONSTANTLY.

maybe you will be, but not due to covenant abilities
covenant abilities will make you underperform by tiny margin in certain fields, oh the horror...

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Game designer here...

of course you are

[MrLachyG]

It’s just a speculation. If it happens now great, if not, 10.0 will have to implement it otherwise GG WoW.

it's not speculation. speculation is something that MAY happen. it very clearly isn't happening next expansion.

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The reveal stream was almost certainly going to be Beta + Release dates, and it's postponed because they're having to push either (or both) of those back a little. It's possible they were aiming to release at the end of summer originally, but now had to go to fall/late fall/early winter.

I doubt they're pushing it to 2021, that would be a disaster because of the preorders that came with a guarantee that it would release in 2020.

they gave the reason why they pushed back the reveal and that wasn't it

[kaminaris]

This looks more like a wishlist than 'speculation' and you probably should be prepared to have your hopes dashed against the rocks of reality.

Thats exactly what my thoughts were when i read that first post. Reveal is going to be switchin to beta and maybe release date.

But OP seems to try to disguise his "mandatory-for-survival" ideas as reveal (not really a reveal) thread.

[8bithamster]

it's not speculation. speculation is something that MAY happen. it very clearly isn't happening next expansion.

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they gave the reason why they pushed back the reveal and that wasn't it

They gave the PC reason for it.. there is no evidence that behind the scenes there is a whole different reason..

[MrLachyG]

They gave the PC reason for it.. there is no evidence that behind the scenes there is a whole different reason..

there's no evidence that there is a different reason at all.

[dunkl]

since the customization has been somewhat lackluster, and we don't truly know which is playable character customization and which is npc and need a 'master' list/wait for the game to release to know, perhaps they will explain that the first batch while minimal, will be expanded upon as the expansion progresses.

I'd like to see class-specific customization as well

perhaps they announce that more customization will be unlocked over the course of the expansion via quests, achievements, discoveries, maybe through professions too!

Special class-only cosmetics and customization such as;

Antlers and silver eyes for night elf druids

Wings for warlocks (there are some very cool and different warlock wings that some NPCs have that I can see befitting warlocks. not to mention their previous perfect wings).

Unique feathers for hunters with special patters and colors. Custom hunter-only tattoos/markings in the shapes of animals such as paw or hoof tracks going up or down the arm, turtle shell, cat teeth, bear claw, bird wings and beak, snake, iconic animal silhouettes.

Beads for monks; chunky, beaded necklaces and bracelets

Perhaps once you've selected your class and are on to customizing your character, there is an additional customization button with your class's own customization available only, fittingly, for you. Perhaps this button/section of class-specific customization and cosmetics can be added to in patches and expansions as blizzard creates them for you to collect, they'll be added to the customization section. There don't have to be many, just 1-2 per class, but available to only your class and therefore special.

This would be an immersive and fun feature because we get our character customization, but to deepen the look and feel of your character, your class could have access to a few pieces all their own. If these are unlocked and you had a memorable experience doing so, our characters would really feel quite cool.

It would be so cool and very RPG if we could dawn our discovered or crafted cosmetics and customization and would be truly awesome if we earned these class-only rewards via special quests or achievements, or through crafting, that way some of our customization options and our characters’ appearances will have that meaningful story behind them, a reminder of our adventures; trials we went through, an obstacle we overcame, or simply a treasure we found while exploring an unknown land. Some of our appearances will be a direct result from our journeys, much like/exactly like an rpg. Therefore, certain specific aspects of your appearance will reflect meaningfully on how and where you play, what you've encountered, survived, bonded with, etc.

That chest you found had a real treasure in it, your perfect new set of earrings.

That noble, last-of-its-kind bird you hacked and slashed free out of that tangle of thorns dropped a single feather as it soared away, a gift for you dear hunter, and a keepsake/promise you two will meet again. now you may wear it behind your ear or in your mane as a reminder of your deed and friendship,

Or you, gentle Druid, those bumps sprouting from your forehead that you feel after awakening from your strange dream of a white stag emerge because of your deep connection to the wild and your unwavering heart for all forest fauna. only those who become self aware and one with nature undergoes this phenomenon. completing a Druidic communion with malorne may see them grow. Nurture them with your very place in this world.

Pleasant monk, you wander but something finds you this day. wrapped around the weapons of an ancient stone warrior are carvings of decorative strings of beads, and upon the guard’s witnessing your role in this world he let’s his weapon fall to the floor before you, crumbling to bits. within the rocks are a set of real beads, large, and can be worn as a necklace and beaded bracelets to protect you from harm by encapsulating chi and empowering your moves with your own spirit.

Just some fun thoughts. I'm always into making my few toons as into their roles as I can via customization and cosmetics and transmog, etc. That's why I'm a supporter of getting race-specific and culture-appropriate identities incorporated into our spell and ability visuals, animations and sound effects - but that is probably for another expansion feature. Thanks for reading if you read! be well!

[Eazy]

Isn't that just a gameplay? Nothing else? I mean, no big reveals?

[Venziir]

Didn't they cancel the reveal?

They postponed it

[Blayze]

They postponed it

We don't actually know; all the post said was they had more details to share in the future.

That could become blog posts.

[Venziir]

We don't actually know; all the post said was they had more details to share in the future.

That could become blog posts.

Erm... "More important voices than ours need to be heard, and now is the time to listen. We are postponing our upcoming World of Warcraft: Shadowlands live stream planned for June 9, and will share more details about the expansion in the future." https://www.wowhead.com/news=316347/...-9th-postponed

[Blayze]

Erm... "More important voices than ours need to be heard, and now is the time to listen. We are postponing our upcoming World of Warcraft: Shadowlands live stream planned for June 9, and will share more details about the expansion in the future." https://www.wowhead.com/news=316347/...-9th-postponed

I knew not looking up the exact quote was going to bite me in the arse.

[Palapop]

Go with your example for a minute. Say you really, really love the Kyrian covenant and choose it; you're saying that one thing will cripple you in arenas? Not being able to use the Holy Shock AoE? Now, I haven't played HPal in years, but doesn't it heal OR deal damage? If you targeted an ally wouldn't it heal up to 5 at once? As for the M+, look at the choices; an AoE Judgment every minute, which should enable an instant 5HP TV or DS, basically a Consecrate on a 4 minute CD, the hammer that triggers DS, on a 30 second cd, or the rotating buff. As I said, I am sure sims and theorycrafting will say one is better than the others, but none of them look so overpowered as to suggest skipping it would render you useless.

All that said, I totally get why people can be frustrated by it. The concern about balancing and stat scaling is valid; Ret's Mastery clearly favors the Kyrian ability over the Venthyr and Necrolord ones, as they deal Shadow Damage, so if a Pally is stacking deep into Mastery, it should, in theory, outpace those to a large degree-but I don't think it will be to such a large degree that someone using Venthyr or NEcrolord can't do enough DPS in an M+ or AoE fight.

I just used it as an example mate.

I don't even know exactly which Covenant ability does what exactly. BUT.... there ARE some which AT LEAST SOUND damn op in pve (mythic raid, M+).... while they AT THE SAME TIME SUCK in arena or rbg. Forcing you to literally DON'T use 1 ability AT ALL....

I hope I made it clearer to you now. (sorry, English is not my native tongue)

maybe you will be, but not due to covenant abilities
covenant abilities will make you underperform by tiny margin in certain fields, oh the horror...

Say- I'm on low HP %, the only def I have in arena is covenant ability left... I pop it- I break all CCs around me...

That would make me underperform "by tiny margin"?

lol....

[taishar68]

I just used it as an example mate.

I don't even know exactly which Covenant ability does what exactly. BUT.... there ARE some which AT LEAST SOUND damn op in pve (mythic raid, M+).... while they AT THE SAME TIME SUCK in arena or rbg. Forcing you to literally DON'T use 1 ability AT ALL....

I hope I made it clearer to you now. (sorry, English is not my native tongue)

I think at worst, and it is not insignificant, there are abilities which would not be viable for arena play (I thought your examples were really good, by the way) that would make choosing them virtually useless if that was their main source of enjoyment, and one would hope that Blizzard has a fix for that (an example might be a soulbind that negates the effect vs. other players, or changes the spread to a single target). I don't think that, for the majority of players, the covenant choice will have any serious impact on PvE play, because unless the encounters are tuned to only work if class X chooses covenant Y, it will just be a matter of how much more time you shaved off of a run, I do not believe it will be the breakpoint that defines success.

Also, as I have said many times to others on this forum, your English is just fine, and WAY better than a lot of folks who only speak English. Put it this way; if I could speak/write another language as well as you write English, I'd be an interpreter.

[Newjinsei]

I'm not encouraging anything. We're talking about retail, not classic or private servers. The only reason I mentioned those is that those are the available options for people who want to do legacy content that's scaled properly. Can you play with people on classic/private servers from retail? I know it's a redundant question, but that's because we're talking about retail and not those. You can argue about splitting the playerbase across various version of WoW, but what I'm talking about is splitting up the RETAIL community. If you make every dungeon/raid relevant at max level through some scaling system, you go from having a pool of 10-12~ dungeons and 1 raid at the start of an expansion, to 100+ dungeon/raids right off the bat. In this case, more isn't better, especially recycled content that most of the community has already seen.

By having everyone on the same playing field and making the current expansions content relevant, it means everyone learns together about the new dungeons/raids. Everyone begins to learn the mechanics and how certain mechanics work. It's new for everyone and we'll all have to work together to figure out the solution. Old content doesn't require any thinking, it just requires someone who knows the fight to explain it to the few who don't. There's no thinking or puzzle solving, it's just taking a swim through nostalgia. That's not the main issue though, the main issue is splitting up the community. If you look at raid finder for pugs, most of the raids you'll see are for the current raid and there'll typically be a few for older raids in the same expansion. If we go from having a pool of 4 raids to 30+ raids, don't you think that would saturate the raid finder? Now if someone wants to find a raid for the current raid, there might be less groups to join, therefore leading to a lower chance of getting into a raid because we now have a few naxx, ulduar, ICC, Firelands, AQ40, Throne of Thunder, and HFC raids all going on at the same time. I doubt that'd be the case when a brand new raid comes out, but 4-5 months down the road? The playerbase begins splitting and people are raiding older raids rather than the latest raid that came out. There's no relevancy to do it since gear of equal value is dropping from older raids.

The whole concept sounds good on initial thought and it's something I think blizz might do if the game is still around in 10 more years, but for the sake of maintaining relevancy of an expansion, resurrecting legacy content and rescaling it is a bad move.

Old content is only old for people who have done it. I’m talking about players who are completely new to wow and just started playing retail. Give THEM a choice of at least doing that content with Ai.

[crakerjack]

Old content is only old for people who have done it. I’m talking about players who are completely new to wow and just started playing retail. Give THEM a choice of at least doing that content with Ai.

It's still a waste of resources/effort to revitalize legacy content. If someone wants to go there, they still can, there's no barring from that. To full blown rescale all the mobs and bosses and make sure everything is balanced/tuned for EVERY raid/dungeon is a complete waste of time/resources. Besides it'll never be like how it used to be because the game overall has changed so much, classes aren't even the same as they once were. You won't ever get a 1:1 experience and again, it's OLD content. How many new people do you think are trying out retail? I know a few who were coaxed into trying classic, but I haven't heard one of them mention retail. That's a small minority of people to dedicate the amount of effort to rescale all old raids/dugeons. It's not happening.

[Seranthor]

Old content is only old for people who have done it. I’m talking about players who are completely new to wow and just started playing retail. Give THEM a choice of at least doing that content with Ai.

There is zero reason for Blizzard to squander resources on something as antithetical to their design philosophy as this.

[dunkl]

Well, maybe the reveal was more to get people's expectations in line with how the course of the expansion is going to unfold, such as, not all customization begin available at launch because their intention is to stagger it out throughout patches, meaningfully. Just a guess.

My other guess is that since the Shadowlands blizzcon reveal wasn't chock full and AS thrilling as maybe it could or should have been (just my opinion, and I'm still very excited for it!), maybe they had some content that was always supposed to be included but wasn't' revealed at blizzcon because they weren't sure at that time if it would make it in, and now perhaps they know it will make it in and want to advertise it. So, we could be in store for a feature that was supposed to be in the blizzcon shadowlands reveal, but was held back (so they don't have to cut content from expansions), and are just now revealing it instead. shrug.

I tend to idealize things and am probably in store for a rude awakening lol.

[Revamp Man]

Do you really believe the company is perverse enough to postpone an event due to internal concerns and blame it on the current crisis we’re going through? If you think the company is that grotesque, why even play the game?

Because 2 reasons

1. Blitzchung

2. I like the game